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Thin Client Solutions For Libraries?
phatlipmojo writes "I'm a librarian in the process of opening a brand new small public library from the ground up (literally; we don't even have a building yet). The library director and I are considering our options for public computing terminals. Having experienced the frustration of dealing with Dell machines running Windows XP on a daily basis, we're trying to consider other options, and we've been talking about maybe using thin clients. Have any of you used or worked in a library (or similar environment) that uses thin client stations for public computing? What are your impressions? What are the perks and what are the drawbacks?"
"I'm hoping that using thin clients could save us daily time troubleshooting bluescreens^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H computer glitches, allow us a greater degree of uniformity on the public terminals, save us the trouble and expense of putting Anti-virus software, Fortres, and Deep Freeze (or other such utilities) on each machine, and make our machines more difficult for black hat types to mess up on purpose. I'm also hoping we'll be able to offer web access (IE and Mozilla, hopefully. IE at a minimum), Word, Excel, and Powerpoint. And have floppy drives. Plus, it would really comfort me not to pump several hundred dollars per machine into a monopolist's coffers for an OS we're just going to debilitate anyway.
We're in the odd (for a public library) position of money not really being a significant factor in the decision. So, for those thin-client-lovers among you if cost weren't a factor, would you still prefer them to full-fledged PCs?
The other factor here is the tech skills required, because our IT department is me. As librarians go, I'm pretty tech-savvy, but as Slashdotters go, I'm pretty much a luser. So homebrew Linux solutions are really out (plus, vendor support is important for selling ideas like this to the municipal government), but systems requiring basic-to-intermediate networking and troubleshooting skills are in, and I'm not afraid of non-Windows OSes."
We're in the odd (for a public library) position of money not really being a significant factor in the decision. So, for those thin-client-lovers among you if cost weren't a factor, would you still prefer them to full-fledged PCs?
The other factor here is the tech skills required, because our IT department is me. As librarians go, I'm pretty tech-savvy, but as Slashdotters go, I'm pretty much a luser. So homebrew Linux solutions are really out (plus, vendor support is important for selling ideas like this to the municipal government), but systems requiring basic-to-intermediate networking and troubleshooting skills are in, and I'm not afraid of non-Windows OSes."
There are quite a few internet cafe packages out there, and there might even be one on sourceforge; combined with linux, I could not think of a better solution for a library, especially when the payment system is used administrate (and ensure that all patrons of your library have equal access).
Sounds like a great project, good luck!
I would use Knoppix.
That's got everything you need on it - it's a full, live-on-CD version of Linux, and it's completely free. Boot off it, glue the CD-drives shut, and you're good. You'd need small hard drives for it, naturally, and quite a bit of memory (~512MB should do fine), but that'd do _very_ nicely for a workstation - KDE, OpenOffice, Mozilla, and a bunch of other things that make a workstation a workstation.
Striking fear in the authors of godawful fanfiction, I am here, appearing in darkness, Tuxedo Jack!
I'm also hoping we'll be able to offer web access (IE and Mozilla, hopefully. IE at a minimum)
How much would the administration be willing to budge on the IE requirement?
The great mob of volunteers down at Computerbank (a charitable organisation that refurbishes used PCs to run linux and be donated to community groups & individuals) have implemented a thin client system running linux at the Footscray Library in Melbourne, Australia.
Done for virtually no money- and plenty of the users prefer the interface to the more complicated windows systems running along side it!
Read their white paper and (if in Melbourne) go down to the Footscray Library (56 Paisley St, Footscray) and check it out!
My pics.
I have to connections to Tarantella in any way, and I dislike Windows, but I must admit that this is a very good option.
Never eat more than you can lift -- Miss Piggy
I did a report on your average computer vs the Sun Rays:
Dell: P4 2.8GHz, 512 memory, 20G HD (5400 rpm), 24x CD, Win 2k, Ultrasharp 19inch Flat panel that is height adjustable, standard keyboard, wheel mouse, bottom line external speakers, DVI-VGA video adapter, mouse pad, no floppy, no consumer anti-virus software, no Microsoft Office offered.
Cost: $1,797 per unit
Required Software: 40 licenses each of Norton Anti-Virus ($3,219.65) and Ghost (1,207.63), Corp Editions.
Full cost: $76,307.28 for first initial order
Support: A test call to their support line prompted advertisements for spyware removal programs, antivirus programs, network hardware to up sell customers as well as the standard "Your call is important to us." The call lasted 17 minutes before giving up the test call.
Sun Thin Clients:
Configuration Details: The SUN thin clients are, effectively, modern dumb terminals. There is no local processing, everything is done on the server side. A representative would need to insert their smart card, used as a username and password, into the thin client and their session would be brought up immediately, right where they left off before. This enables "hot desking", which means a representative can get up from one terminal, walk across the building and sit down at another terminal and begin working where they left off - zero configuration. The thin client works off of a central server, called a SUN Fire, that can house anywhere from 1 to 80 clients, depending on server type and load. These are normally very fast machines that have their memory maxed out.
The Server runs the only copy of Solaris, so there is only 1 upgrade point and since it
runs Solaris, it is impervious to roughly 99.9% of the viruses that attack computers. A major benefit is that the SUN Fire server requires, roughly, one System Administrator for 2000 thin clients.
The Sun Ray 1G Thin Clients do have audio in and out jacks, giving representatives to listen to music over the network. This would require a CD collection somewhere, a network storage server dedicated to music, etc.
Cost: $359 per unit + SUN Fire server ($12,995 - $29,490) + 19 inch monitors ($1,100 each)
Required Software: None. The SUN Fire server has licenses for 20 to 40 users using Solaris with Gnome, a Windows like operating system as well as other software package like StarOffice (a Unix/Linux version of MicroSoft Office) and GAIM, a Unix/Linux version of AOL Instant Messenger.
Required Hardware: The Sun Thin Clients require a monitor. While Sun offers 19inch LCD displays for $1,100 each, the Thin Clients do support any monitor that supports Display Identification Standard (DDC) ver. 1.2 or 2.1. There is more documentation on monitor needs on Sun's website. Other 19-inch monitors that appear to support the standard are priced at $800 to $1,100. I have also noticed that the Sun Monitor appears to support higher frequency ranges (60-80Hz) vs the low end competition. This can help reduce eyestrain for those that can see monitors flickering at anything below 70Hz, such as myself. The Sun monitors also support 1920x1200 with 24 bit color (2d rendering, no 3d).
Full cost: $74,935 for first initial order
Support: A test call to their support line was greeted with a simplistic menu. After the menu prompt was picked, a "Southern type" SUN technician greeted the caller after a short wait. Total call time to live rep: 2 minutes.
Since the library isn't going to actually use them like we would, you can probably run around 60 per server since it would just be a browser and maybe a terminal window.
Basically, after spending about a week on the issue of workstations for a call center environment, we found that the Sun Ray Thin Clients came out on top and we'll be deploying them ASAP. Hope this helps.
CAn'T CompreHend SARcaSm?
Don't forget Sun has Sun Ray clients with either a 15" LCD or 17" CRT in an all in one design too at $1049 and $659(!) respectively. That's a big savings on 40 of these and for a library more than adequate
The smart card is not a requirement either. You can simply log in (as guest if you like), you just don't get your hot desking. This brings the possibilty of giving regular users a real account with some space for documents as well and it keeps their settings. Guest logins are trivial to revert to "standard state" every time they are logged off too.
You don't get IE but that only disables a small amount of websites that due to their stupid reliance on IE don't deserve your custom anyway.
This seems blown up slightly -- A library (IMHO) does not need a 2.8GHz 512MB system. What are people going to do? 3D animation? raytracing? Doom III?
I think a better estimate would be a 1.4 GHz AMD Athlon XP system with 256MB RAM and the bare min for hard disk and other. The monitor you chose also inflated the price a bit. You can get decent 15" monitors these days (either LCD panel, or Trinitron CRT for more savings) for under $300.
And the software costs for the PCs are horribly inflated as well -- first of all, screw Windows. Install a basic Linux environment on them; there go your unnecessary Norton licenses. Use Gnome (or KDE), Firefox, OpenOffice, and a terminal for the Library and you're all set. If you're going to do a price comparison, at least bring the PCs up to the same level as the UNIX sunrays.
Cost per unit: about $600-$800
Hmm, significantly less. I don't know if it's just me, but it seems convenient that the sunrays beat out the PCs by only about two grand. Maybe for a call center environment you need the extra horsepower on your PCs (which is ironic, because you chose sunrays instead) but I doubt it. Aside from maintenance and support, the PCs are definately cheaper for the library.Total cost: around $30,000
"!"
not this karma-whoring post yet again.
I refer to the 'it ran windows and was crap, so I installed linux and everything was fine forevermore'. Why do they keep getting modded insightful?
--
'Back in 1947, I saw the ENIAC system being deployed, but what a load of rubbish it was. It couldn't do a batch job unless you ran it overnight, needed a whole 16 k of valves to process any of its bloated hide, so one day, while the admins were off standing in a ration queue, I installed linux and KDE, and not only did no-one notice, except to say how much smoother it felt, but it made the country into the economic powerhouse we have today, and solved world hunger too.'
--
Please, somebody stop them!
I would highly recommend K12LTSP as a good start. It is easy to set up and configure. The latest release which came out today is based on Fedora Core 2 and LTSP 4.0.1. Although it has not on the K12LTSP page at the moment you can read the announcement here.
- Au gust/msg00321.html
https://listman.redhat.com/archives/k12osn/2004
All the best with your project