RPOW - Reusable Proofs of Work
mitd writes "Hal Finney is inviting folks to test drive his new hashcash-based server rpow.net.
" The RPOW system provides for proof of work (POW) tokens to be reused. A POW token is something that takes a relatively long time to compute but which can be checked quickly."
Hal's security model paper is well worth the read and his proof of concept code is available for download.
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Can someone explain the concept behind this in a little uhh easier terms. I read parts on the website, but I think I need a bit of background before I can really understand what is going on. Thanks
Hal's security model paper is well worth the read and his proof of concept code is available for download.
"I'm sorry Dave, but I can't let you download that..."
Okaaay... So it's a server that's *meant* to serve computationally expensive 'tokens'. And you post it on ./ . Niiice.
How about Proofs Of Not Working? Got plenty of those.
Google Cache after slashdotting... http://www.google.ca/search?q=cache:YHGDB5MH4e0J:r pow.net/+&hl=en
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But seriously, the server went down after two replies, but not before I managed to get this:
[Read this instead adding a load to a battered server]
and this
-- "I'm not a religious man, but if you're up there, save me Superman..."
An interesting scheme...
One potential problem I see with such an anti-spam measure is that I keep hearing about spam runs being done from many regular users' computers by means of a spamming worm infrection. Such a worm could also be adapted to generate the POW tokens... or even steal them from the users' incoming email and re-use them under this scheme! That'll be just great, having your computer not only hijacked to send out spam, but loaded down with the heavy burden of generating POW tokens.
If construction was anything like programming, an incorrectly fitted lock would bring down the entire building...
However this probably doesn't work (PDF) [or as html].
Background (from that paper):
What a crock of a system. Let's see:
a) to be useful for anything involving third parties where you don't already have a trust relationship, this would need to be common/easy enough to get that other people already have software to support these things. That's not going to happen any time soon - it's a big enough change you may as well come up with an already secure email infrastructure [insert boilerplate "why your solution to spam is stupid" here].
b) 8 tokens per second? Puhleaze. I get that many emails through just one small server with 5 domains on it.
c) as the subject says. Zombies. In a world where thousands of low TC0 machines are sitting around running malware, it's piss-easy for the blackhat spammers to collect their 8 tokens/second by running POWer@home on their zombie farm.
BZZZZt. Strike three and you're out. Nice idea, but not practical.
All this means is that, as well as the net connection being slow, the processor will be running overtime calculating the checksums. The spammers will send as many emails as ever.
SPF has to be one of the easiest measures we can take to reduce spam. Spamassassin is about to hit 3.0 RC1 and many more of us will be able to easily associate scores with SPF records. As soon as mail has to originate from the correct domain we get better spam checking and a paper trail for the authorities to follow. If you don't have SPF records for your domain, head on over here or here and set them up.
As I read through the comments on this article, there are a few that seem to indicate that the poster was completely clueless. And then, when I look more closely, I see that all of them were posted by the same person.
Yes, I know that I shouldn't post replies like this, but this is getting annoying. Quite a few people have posted explanations about what this technology could be useful for. Make an effort to understand it, instead of continuing to post "I don't understand" comments.
You said: "Noone's going to install dedicated IBM crypto hardware in their mailservers. No company is going to invest big bucks in a mailserver just so it can run 100% CPU utilization all the time for no good reason. That costs actual real world money, and continues to cost in power usage."
That's absolutely right, and that's the whole POINT of POW tokens. If you are going to send one or two emails, it won't bother you all that much that your computer has to perform a few seconds of computation before your email gets accepted. If you are a spammer and you want to send a MILLION emails, then your computer would have to perform a few million seconds of computation, which would either slow you down tremendously OR force you to pay real money to buy lots of fast computers and power them.
The problem with the CURRENT model of email is that the sender does not have to pay anything to send spam, so they can send millions of them, and it's still worthwhile if they get one reply in ten thousand attempts. But if they had to pay something to send each spam, they would send less.
Junk snail mail senders have to pay for postage, and so, even though they may be annoying, they are not the same kind of problem as spammers are. They tend to send out flyers only for things that they expect to get SOME response for.
You also said "So spammers spam each other (or themselves from a different host) and have an endless supply of RPOW tokens." Again, you've missed the point. If they spam each other, then yes, the recipient now has the ability to send out the same amount of spam, but the sender has used up his tokens by transferring them to the sender. No new POW tokens are created by this process. If I give you $10 and you give me $10, we're NOT both $10 dollars richer -- what I gave you, I no longer have. And if we pass the $10 bill back and forth 100 times, we haven't somehow created $1000 for each of us to spend; we still have the same amount of money that we started with.
And your point about us not wanting secure hardware on our machines is irrelevant. Nothing in this idea implies that you should have secure hardware on your machine. It can all be done in software, open source software (or any other kind).