Now Science Officer Smith can properly mod the spaceship's PS3/XBOX2/etc. for the long trip to Mars.
am i the only one....
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 2, Funny
...who read that as "Soldier in Space"?
Water in a frypan can be similar
by
Ratso+Baggins
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· Score: 3, Informative
Put a teaspoon of water into a well heated frypan and the water (while it is still a liquid) will generally form up in little blobs and behaves in a similar fashion. ie. moving in a circular motion.
--
-- "we live in a post-ideological world..." - Billy Bragg.
Re:Water in a frypan can be similar
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 3, Informative
When it starts to do this, then it's ready for the pancake batter.
Re:Water in a frypan can be similar
by
delus10n0
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· Score: 4, Informative
I don't think that is the same thing.. what you're describing is the Leidenfrost effect.
-- Not All Who Wander Are Lost
Re:Water in a frypan can be similar
by
tsg
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· Score: 2, Informative
What makes the water skitter around the pan is the steam underneath the droplet escaping to one side. The boiling rosin vapor may be escaping from one side of the ball and creating a jet.
-- People's desire to believe they are right is much stronger than their desire to be right.
Did anybody else...
by
venomkid
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· Score: 2, Funny
...read this "Soldiering in Space"?
And then think "Wow! What kind of gun is a FLUX!?"
pfft.
--
vk.
Firemarshall Bill sez
by
Tumbleweed
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· Score: 4, Funny
"Lemme SHOWYASOMETHIN'!
Let's say, kids, that you're in space, doing all those amaaaaaazing astronaut duties, like, say, performing a SOLDERING EXPERIMENT!
There you are, performing your scientific experiments on soldering in space, with SUPERHOTSOLDER! Suddenly, your astronaut compatriot, who had the little spaceman's mexican meal packet, farts REALLY POWERFULLY in your direction, distracting your attention, and the SUPERHOTSOLDER goes right into yours eyes, blinding you for life!
Be careful up there, kids - space is dangerous and full of monsters and SUPERHOTSOLDER!"
Why it spins.
by
CryptoEngineer
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· Score: 5, Interesting
As to why the rosin separates from the solder, I don't know. But I think I know why it spins.
Heat is being conducted into the rosin ball from the molten solder. The rosin is boiling or vaporising. Initially, this is symettric, but if only a small jiggle occurs, one side of the blob gets cooled by the air, and starts to vaporize at a lower rate. The other, trailing side vaporizes at a higher rate, and in reaction of the ball experiences a push from that side. The movement increases the cooling effect on the upwind side, and the process feeds on itself. Since the rosin blob touches only the liquid solder, there is little or no friction , and these tiny effects can build up.
The astronaut was lucky the rosin ball didn't come right off and hit him in the eye.
Re:Why it spins.
by
Orne
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· Score: 2, Informative
You'll notice in the video he's wearing goggles.
Re:Why it spins.
by
RobertB-DC
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· Score: 4, Interesting
The astronaut was lucky the rosin ball didn't come right off and hit him in the eye.
I noticed, though, that the smoke from the heated ball of solder and rosin was clearly "rising" away from the astronaut. I'm guessing that they were using a fan or something similar to blow gases away. I'd be curious to know what happens when you melt this sort of solder without a breeze -- I'll have to google "zero gee flame" to see what the latest combustion experiments have yielded.
Also interesting... at 0:43 or so (in the Windows Media version), it looks like the guy holding the fan got distracted as the rosin bubble started spinning. The smoke starts moving in other directions, and a small chunk of... something... goes flying off to the upper right of the frame. Wonder what that was?
-- Stressed? Me?
Of course not.
Stress is what a rubber band feels before it breaks, silly.
Re:Why it spins.
by
shfted!
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· Score: 3, Informative
You need a forced ventilation system in space, as microgravity and a confined space doesn't create enough of a gradiant to properly mix and balance the various gases in the air (like oxygen). So yes, they have fans.
-- He who laughs last is stuck in a time dilation bubble.
Movie (I hope NASA can handle it)
by
andfarm
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· Score: 2, Informative
what charges a flux capacitor. Now, I know. If they can just get it to spin in the other direction, maybe that DeLorean will start working.
If you don't use rosin...
by
angelrae
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· Score: 2, Interesting
... wouldn't that prevent the problem of circling solder? It seems to me that the rosin wouldn't be necessary in space because oxidation doesn't need to be prevented. NASA says that
"hydrogen and helium are the prime components and are only present at extremely low densities" in space. Thus, the only reason I could see rosin being necessary is if the soldering would take place inside the space vessel. Otherwise, it seems to me that rosin could be removed from solder that is to be used on the space-side of these vessels.
Re:If you don't use rosin...
by
nusratt
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· Score: 2, Interesting
"the only reason I could see rosin being necessary is if the soldering would take place inside the space vessel"
I think that was the general idea: the behavior of solder when lacking *gravity*, not when lacking *oxygen*.
I don't imagine that a lot of EVA repair work would involve soldering: anything *outside* the capsule had better use stronger connections than solder.
I wonder if soldering EVA would also run into a problem in maintaining the necessary heat.
Re:If you don't use rosin...
by
cmowire
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· Score: 2, Informative
See, that was my thought too.
I don't think that doing it in a vacuum is the world's greatest idea. Space suit gloves do a number on your manual dexterity.
Given that you are probably going to have to collect the fumes anyway, it's probably not the world's worst idea to solder in a nitrogen filled bag, which fixes that problem.
The problem, I think, is that not only are you cleaning off any of the newly created oxidation from the soldering iron, you are also cleaning off any of the existing oxidation. And, furthermore, you are also changing the surface tension to better allow the solder to flow. So you probably still need the flux.
I'm just amazed that it took folks this long to start thinking about these sorts of things and actually working on them.
Re:If you don't use rosin...
by
cmowire
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· Score: 2, Interesting
I thought that maintaining heat would be a problem, too.
Then it was pointed out by another slashdotter that vacuum is an insulator. As demonstrated by the Thermos container.
Soldering *might* be useful outside of one's spacecraft eventually. I'm mostly thinking of plumbing solder for running piping, however. But I imagine that doing relatively precise soldering while wearing spacesuit gloves wouldn't be the world's easiest task. But yeah, they'll probably be more interested in space welding than anything else.
containing the smell?
by
smaksly
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· Score: 2, Interesting
Wouldn't the smell of the solder pose a problem in the spaceship?
I remember reading a story about how strong fumes affect astronauts and that everything that goes into a spaceship gets sniffed to make sure its not emitting any unpleasant odors.
Re:Yes but what about the ants?
by
2nd+Post!
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· Score: 2, Insightful
Dunno, seems kinda fundamentally useful to know. Theory is one thing, observation is another.
I mean, would you have predicted that outcome in space? If no, then there is value, because that unexpected answer is basis for all sorts of future developments to build upon that answer.
If yes, then please tell us what else we can do with this discovery?
Re:Yes but what about the ants?
by
AKAImBatman
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· Score: 3, Interesting
Believe it or not, this type of thing could be very useful to know. Sure, it's just a simple solder now, but what about other melted metals? For example, take 3D printing. Gravity tends to limit the types of shapes you can make, and the materials you can use. But what if we could 3D print steel? We could build a spaceship in record time! All we'd need are some "printer" robots and CAD software to control them!
Re:Yes but what about the ants?
by
Sgt+York
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· Score: 2, Informative
The free time comment was directed only at the thin-films link you posted. I was under the impression that the soldering was started as an official project.
You won't find much disagreement from me about wether ISS is run well. It's not. It could be used for some very good things, but currently, it's not. It is uniquely suited to physiological research on the effects of long-term microgravity exposure (needed for manned exploratory missions) and is a good testbed for manufacturing technologies and research applications. There are some things that can be done better in space; molecular biology structural research, for one (many crystals grow better w/o gravity). I'm a biochemist, so that's the only one I'm familiar with, but I have heard of technologies that would benefit from vaccuum and/or microgravity. I just don't know enough to discuss them intelligently.
ISS could be a great place to determine the feasibility of these manufacturing applications, the success of which could help draw industry and private groups into space. Granted that's a lot of "could's" and the first run of these tests should be done via automated satellite, with the second run on the shuttle (or its replacement). ISS testing should be final phase, but it should still be a phase.
The best thing about it, though, is the public image and exposure. In the absence of any other space-based industry, the thing that will draw real money there is tourism. As it grows, tourism will eventually bring the industry connected with it. This will draw more people and money up, which will reduce launch costs, which will increase flux into space (I'm talking decades to centuries here).
As for building and maintenance, I work in a research lab. The cost of keeping things going is huge. The cost of housing the animals alone exceeds the salary of two technicians. It costs more annually for me to do my work than it does to pay me (although that's not saying much), and much of that is tied up in utilities, maintenance, ventillation, and the like. ISS is a unique lab, and it is needed to determine the effects of living and working in space long-term, on both men and equipment. The shuttle can't stay up for months at a time. Any work you do on it, at all, furthers this goal. It is an expensive lab, but it is useful.
IMHO, the issue is that expensive labs need to be run well.
--
There is a reason for everything. Sometimes that reason just sucks.
I think you've got it.
by
Libertarian_Geek
·
· Score: 2, Informative
To add to it, as it spins around, the leading edge is cooled more than the trailing edge, therefore keeping one side hotter than the other, letting the vapor jet propel it around vs jittering.
Slashdot Mirror
heh wouldn't want to have to do emergency circuit board soldering in space if thats the way it acts, it could be alot of fun
"WebTV: bringing the Internet into the shallow end of the gene pool since 1995" - Martin Bishop
Now Science Officer Smith can properly mod the spaceship's PS3/XBOX2/etc. for the long trip to Mars.
...who read that as "Soldier in Space"?
Put a teaspoon of water into a well heated frypan and the water (while it is still a liquid) will generally form up in little blobs and behaves in a similar fashion. ie. moving in a circular motion.
--
"we live in a post-ideological world..." - Billy Bragg.
...read this "Soldiering in Space"?
And then think "Wow! What kind of gun is a FLUX!?"
pfft.
vk.
"Lemme SHOWYASOMETHIN'!
Let's say, kids, that you're in space, doing all those amaaaaaazing astronaut duties, like, say, performing a SOLDERING EXPERIMENT!
There you are, performing your scientific experiments on soldering in space, with SUPERHOTSOLDER! Suddenly, your astronaut compatriot, who had the little spaceman's mexican meal packet, farts REALLY POWERFULLY in your direction, distracting your attention, and the SUPERHOTSOLDER goes right into yours eyes, blinding you for life!
Be careful up there, kids - space is dangerous and full of monsters and SUPERHOTSOLDER!"
As to why the rosin separates from the solder, I don't know. But I think I know why it spins.
Heat is being conducted into the rosin ball from the molten solder. The rosin is boiling or vaporising. Initially, this is symettric, but if only a small jiggle occurs, one side of the blob gets cooled by the air, and starts to vaporize at a lower rate. The other, trailing side vaporizes at a higher rate, and in reaction of the ball experiences a push from that side. The movement increases the cooling effect on the upwind side, and the process feeds on itself. Since the rosin blob touches only the liquid solder, there is little or no friction , and these tiny effects can build up.
The astronaut was lucky the rosin ball didn't come right off and hit him in the eye.
http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2004/images/sol der/video_final/iss.mpg
As the solder heats up, a little drop of flux starts to spin rapidly around the ball of molten solder. It's a seriously weird effect.
TANSTAAFI: There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free iPod.
what charges a flux capacitor. Now, I know. If they can just get it to spin in the other direction, maybe that DeLorean will start working.
... wouldn't that prevent the problem of circling solder? It seems to me that the rosin wouldn't be necessary in space because oxidation doesn't need to be prevented. NASA says that "hydrogen and helium are the prime components and are only present at extremely low densities" in space. Thus, the only reason I could see rosin being necessary is if the soldering would take place inside the space vessel. Otherwise, it seems to me that rosin could be removed from solder that is to be used on the space-side of these vessels.
Wouldn't the smell of the solder pose a problem in the spaceship?
I remember reading a story about how strong fumes affect astronauts and that everything that goes into a spaceship gets sniffed to make sure its not emitting any unpleasant odors.
Dunno, seems kinda fundamentally useful to know. Theory is one thing, observation is another.
I mean, would you have predicted that outcome in space? If no, then there is value, because that unexpected answer is basis for all sorts of future developments to build upon that answer.
If yes, then please tell us what else we can do with this discovery?
GPL Deconstructed
Believe it or not, this type of thing could be very useful to know. Sure, it's just a simple solder now, but what about other melted metals? For example, take 3D printing. Gravity tends to limit the types of shapes you can make, and the materials you can use. But what if we could 3D print steel? We could build a spaceship in record time! All we'd need are some "printer" robots and CAD software to control them!
:-)
So be careful about what you rag on.
Javascript + Nintendo DSi = DSiCade
You won't find much disagreement from me about wether ISS is run well. It's not. It could be used for some very good things, but currently, it's not. It is uniquely suited to physiological research on the effects of long-term microgravity exposure (needed for manned exploratory missions) and is a good testbed for manufacturing technologies and research applications. There are some things that can be done better in space; molecular biology structural research, for one (many crystals grow better w/o gravity). I'm a biochemist, so that's the only one I'm familiar with, but I have heard of technologies that would benefit from vaccuum and/or microgravity. I just don't know enough to discuss them intelligently.
ISS could be a great place to determine the feasibility of these manufacturing applications, the success of which could help draw industry and private groups into space. Granted that's a lot of "could's" and the first run of these tests should be done via automated satellite, with the second run on the shuttle (or its replacement). ISS testing should be final phase, but it should still be a phase.
The best thing about it, though, is the public image and exposure. In the absence of any other space-based industry, the thing that will draw real money there is tourism. As it grows, tourism will eventually bring the industry connected with it. This will draw more people and money up, which will reduce launch costs, which will increase flux into space (I'm talking decades to centuries here).
As for building and maintenance, I work in a research lab. The cost of keeping things going is huge. The cost of housing the animals alone exceeds the salary of two technicians. It costs more annually for me to do my work than it does to pay me (although that's not saying much), and much of that is tied up in utilities, maintenance, ventillation, and the like. ISS is a unique lab, and it is needed to determine the effects of living and working in space long-term, on both men and equipment. The shuttle can't stay up for months at a time. Any work you do on it, at all, furthers this goal. It is an expensive lab, but it is useful.
IMHO, the issue is that expensive labs need to be run well.
There is a reason for everything. Sometimes that reason just sucks.
To add to it, as it spins around, the leading edge is cooled more than the trailing edge, therefore keeping one side hotter than the other, letting the vapor jet propel it around vs jittering.
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