Slashdot Mirror
Best Buy Sued By Ohio
liryon writes "The Register is reporting that the state of Ohio has sued national electronics retailer Best Buy for misleading customers by repackaging used goods and then selling them as new, and for failing to pay rebate claims. The Register report can be found here, and the original story is here. I guess this is what you get for deciding the customer is not always right." See also the Ohio AG's press release.
I try to shop online to get a 7% discount avoiding the sales tax penalty for local purchases. I would not mind buy locally but I ran into just as many problems at a local retailer as online.
The only rebate I have been denied was for a ViewSonic monitor I bought from BestBuy about 5 years ago. Back then, the rebates stated that if you do not include all necessary documents, you can resubmit. I forgot to include the UPC symbol and that was a $100 mistake. 8 weeks later, I got the letter stating that I did not include all information and that it would not be paid. 8 weeks is longer than the 30-day return policy. I think nowadays, you have the right to resubmit in these cases. Do not really know but I have not ever bought another viewsonic since and I have not ever forgot to re-read the fine print to know exactly what to send. The rebate hand in the middle of the paragraph what to include. I read the bottom that said it needed the receipt and a sticker from the box. It was my fault but I am still mad about that it was a $100 and local retailers only have customer service going for them.
an interesting little insight from a disgruntled staff member.
Top 5 things Best Buy doesn't want you to know
I should have posted this long ago. As a former employee, here is an insider's look at the top 5 things from the HT department of Best Buy (where I worked) that I guarantee they do not want their customers to know.
5. Barely legal bait and switch schemes. They push the limits of the laws with many of their flyer ads with some cheap product, like a 40 dollar DVD player to get you in the store, in hopes of encouraging you to buy something better, ie more expensive. That's the salesmen's job under any circumstance, so it doesn't change with these cheapo sales events either.
4. Open box items are usually returned items, not something that just happened to get opened in store, which rarely happens. I've seen many store employees try to avoid saying it was returned, in fear of losing the sale. Also most employees don't take the time to properly label the open box tags so you may think you are getting all accessories when you are not.
3. I've discussed this before, but here is more on this subject. As part of employee training, monster cables are drilled into employee's heads as a part of all applicable sales add ons from day one. In fact it is part of the "Total Solution" mechanism in place that all employess are to follow during their sales routine. Employees are told straight up that monster's products are superior, but never given any detailed reason why this is supposedly so. The employees I witnessed would typically memorize much of the fluff that was written on the package, on their own behalf, as a way to more quickly answer customer questions, preserve "expert" status, and eliminate possible reservations that the customer might have about spending more on something that was already provided in the box. In fact, this was often lied about. Employees don't like telling customers that zipcords come with their dvd player when asked. If they employees are forced into telling a customer, they will be quick to point how poor in quality they are in comparison to monster's products. One manager would actually say "The only thing (the customer) better be using zipcords cords for is to hold their trunk shut after they've just bought something". AR cables and recoton cables are seen as a failure of doing a proper sale at Best Buy and used only as a last ditch effort to get the customer to buy a little something extra. If an employee doesn't ask you "do you want cables, an antenna, blank discs, tapes, etc. with that?" when you are buying an applicable product, then they are simply not doing their job as instructed.
2. Employee know how. There was a recent Home Theater magazine article on the knowledge of Circuit City, Ultimate Electronics, and Best Buy employees. The rag was trying to determine how well each store knew their stuff. I knew what the results of this absolutely retarded article were going to be before I even began reading it, but as a former employee I read it anyway for curiousity's sake. The results, of course, depended on the individual knowledge of the employee that the writers happened to speak to.
Best Buys's policy is for each employee to know as much as they can about the products they sell in their primary area of responsibility. Yet, in order to do so they have to research the product almost entirely on their own time. During slow times throughout the day when you would think an employee could do a little studying, typically this is when the merchandising manager obegins running around being his/her most concerned about the store's cleanliness and the straighntess of the product on the shelves etc., so employees rarely get to know their products that well and also because of the constant product turnover. Also keep in mind when selling something such as a DVD player you can
Editor Emeritus and Senior Writer, TeleRead.org
The nice thing about Circuit City is that, at least here in Springfield, they will match prices for Best Buy including rebates. So if something is $30 with a $10 rebate at B'Buy, C.C. will sell it to you for $20 (well, actually for $19, since they price-match by 110%) with no wait for mail-sending.
Almost makes me want to forgive them for trying to shove DIVX down our throats. Almost.
Editor Emeritus and Senior Writer, TeleRead.org
I had fun getting Best Buy and Circuit City to go back and forth concerning the 50in TV I have in my living room now. I got the price down 500 dollars just from them going back and forth. J
I used to work at Best Buy. On one hand I feel for the state. Best Buy's practices are sometimes a bit draconian. Especially with regards to service plans and rebates. This would cause major trouble for us as employees when Jimbo would come in looking for his $200 computer only to find that in actuallity he would have to spend $800 that day and would need to fill out thre different rebate forms. It would usually be at this point where a manager would start urging us to "sell dem service plans"
By the same token some customers were dumb as bricks and I would be surpriesed if they could get the return address correct, let alone a rebate or understanding a service plan.
We did try to sell returned merchindise as new. We never lied, but hell if we would voulenteer that information. I still feel kinda guilty about it.
100% Crunchier
I can say that the accusations are 100% true. How do I know this? Because on one occasion, I had a manager personally show me how to operate the shrink-wrap machine. Working in PCHO, the 'printer to push' routinely changed depending on how much ink we had in stock. Being told to sell Packard Bell computers was a hoot, when I knew them to be the shittiest things on the planet. PSP's (extended warranties) were drilled into our collective heads every day, and despite protestations to the contrary, the saleskids *DO* get a kickback from them. That's why they're paranoid about scribbling their employee number on the back of the form. What's incredibly amusing is that after having worked 2 winters and a summer with them, i was spit out by their automated interviewer for being unqualified. The manager wanted me badly, and even reset the program twice and told me which answers to choose, but alas, alack, the computer just knew too much.
Recovering BBuy lackey xxxxxx, stores xxx and xxx.
(Wouldn't they like to know... afterall, I am an eyewitness to their illegal actions)
I suspect that one of these choices is incorrect. Correct.
As a former Best Buy Technician, I can attest to the sales people saying almost anything to make a sale. For years, I got to deal with hundreds of pissed off people: "Well, the salesman said that even if my dog ate my camcorder the service plan would cover it!" or "They told me you'd replace this P.O.S. laptop if anything happened to it! Why are you shipping it somwhere to FIX it?"
Aside from firing numerous sales people over the years, we often had to resort to showing them the service plan that they signed at the time of purchase stating the specifics of the plan.
Let that be a lesson to all of you. If you want to know what the "Extra warranty" actually covers, talk to a technician or even the tech supervisor to get a straight answer. This method won't always work in the all too often crooked world of sales, but you're far more likely to get a straight answer from them.
If ANYONE ever tells you that their service plan covers "Everything" you need to be suspect and dig a little deeper. Maybe even read the service plan for yourself! That three page pamphlet has some astonishingly clear information in it (and not just at Best Buy. Most other chains have similar informational pages)!
"The object of war is not to die for your country, but to make the other bastard die for his." - Patton
My dad had a somewhat similar but far less expensive experience. He bought a Sony tuner, and when he got it up, the unit was obviously used and not even the right model. Best Buy absolutely refused to replace it, claiming that he must be lying. He wrote certified letters to important people in Best Buy, but never received a response. Finally he went to Sony who promptly replaced it.
Man, the one thing that cracks me up more than anything.... you know, the $100/ft oxygen free copper wire that supposidly has less resistance therefor better sound than lamp cable from the hardware store...
Anyways, the ignorance finally showed with the release of the TOSLink fiber optic cables used that carry the digital data (SPDIF format I believe).
Monster and other companies sell high grade TOSLink fiber optic cables that, according to the packaging, provide better sound than the factory throw ins.
It costs more than your SC to SC multimode fiber optic patch cords that you would use for a gige switch. Shit, probably more than a SM MRTJ cable for 10gig...
But the truth is, it works just as good as the cheapo. ZERO difference. It is all ones and zeros. I have a 10$ cable I used between a PC and my MD deck, and also between two MD decks. The secret is, there is a hidden option to enter a service mode where you can video the errors received on both toslink and the optical pickup.
The fact it, it is false advertising. Sure it might have more plastic wrapped around it and look cooler, but it is all just a plastic lightpipe (unlike computer cables which are indeed glass). I saw zero errors on the most budget cable out there.
Don't, (jibbie wack), don't believe the hype.
Southeastern Virginia REPRESENT!
Just to give a bit of credit where it due...
I purchased a TV/VCR combo from BestBuy about 8 years back, at the time it was $300 and that was a good bit of money to me, so I got the extended warranty. A bit more than 2 and a half years after that, any time I played a tape, the unit would run for about 5-10 minutes, and then shut itself off, and kick the tape out. So, with it still under warranty, I took it back, and had BestBuy take a look at it. They gave it a cleaning and gave it back to me. Three weeks later, it started acting up again, same problem. So, I took it back and they sent it out for repair this time. I get it back, and two weeks later had the same problem. Another trip to BestBuy, another trip out to the service center and I get it back for another week, and have the exact same problem. By this time I was getting rather upset, so I took it back, and, having read the contract, expected it to be replaced (requires three qualifying repairs). Well, it turns out that they used the word qualifying to mean that they had to send it out for repair three times. Instead of arguing this with the tech (pointless) I had him get a hold of the manager, and argued it with the manager, who did finally concede the point that this was silly, and looking very much like they were trying to slow roll me out of the warranty (which would have been up in a week or two).
In the end, the manager agreed, and replaced the unit. As the unit I had was no longer manufactured, they allowed me to pick the replacement (of similar price range) and I changed brands and have been happy since.
You can often get the managers to bend the rules in a situation like this, but you have to be smart.
1. Don't waste your time with the clerk/tech. They have a set of policies that they have to follow, getting pissed at them for doing their job is stupid. Ask for a manager.
2. Don't yell at the manager. This is the one person in the world who is able to help you, don't start by pissing him/her off. Be calm, and clear about what you want and why you think you deserve it. Usually the managers will have the latitude to change the rules to please a customer.
3. If the first manager isn't being helpful, get their manager, someone up the chain is likely to agree with you, if for no other reason than to get you to go away.
It never ceases to amaze me to see someone yelling at a manager or clerk. Consider how you would act on the other side, if you have some raving idiot yelling at you, because they can't understand the terms they agreed to, would you really feel inclined to help them? Usually, when you get involved in a shouting match, the two sides have a tendancy to polarize. On the other hand, if the person is being nice, and just trying to explain why they feel they are being taken advantage of, do you think you might now be inclined to listen to them and accept what they are saying? Usually, most people are generally nice, and if you are reasonable and personable with them, they will feel at least some obligation to help you.
As the old saying goes, "You catch more bees with honey than vinigar."
Necessity is the mother of invention.
Laziness is the father.
I can't begin to say how happy I am to hear that Best Buy is getting theirs!!
... We don't carry that unit any more. We'd be happy to give you some money that you can spend in Best Buy on another MP3 player.
...
... ever ... ever ... purchase anything from Best Buy ever agian.
Personally I've been missled by their sales associates. I purchased a 40gig Nomad MP3 player. At the time of purchase the sales associate said that I should buy a service plan. His argument was that the batteries are expensive to replace. And with the service plan I just bring in the device and they replace the battery.
Sounded resonable.
Six months later the battery dies.
I bring back the unit and explain that I had the service plan and that I needed a replacement battery. I was told that Best Buy would only replace the entire unit.
Oh and by the way
What! Crazy!
I bought that item on sale. There's no way I can get something comperable and maintain the value of purchasing something on sale.
Okay
Refund the money I spent on this service plan. It is clearly designed so that I can never utilize it.
Best Buy's response: NO
I ended up having to pay $40 for another battery.
Which, by the way, is what I spent on the service plan.
I will never
ever.
--The Dude
FTR, although it cost an unpleasant amount of money ($800 or $900), the repair was lightning fast and they even shipped it to a third location (where I was on a trip) once it was fixed (which was well before their estimate). IBM Rul0rz.
Dude, I think I can see my house from here.
Well, while she was taking her final I decided I would go to the local mall and hang out for awhile to burn some time. I ended up at Best Buy (most guys, when left to their own shopping accords with no woman at their hip and money to burn, will end up at an electronics store. Call it Jay's Law). Anyhow, I went inside and was glancing at everything: computer stuff, DVDs, video games, TVs, stereo stuff, etc., basically deciding what I wanted to get that day. I didn't have a cart on me in their defense just because I may have gotten a DVD or a stereo; I wasn't sure yet.
So, about 15 to 20 minutes into the excursion I notice a pretty big guy in tattoos looking at The Sims' latest expansion. A little odd, I decided, that this wanna-be biker guy was checking something like that out. I filed it in the back of my mind and went to look at digital cameras.
Not 5 minutes later I am leaving digicam land to examine TVs and, while deciding between one model and another (had my mind made up at this point as to what I wanted) who do I see but Mr. Tattoo "looking" at plasmas. Now I know I am being tailed. Having time to burn, I decide to have fun with this.
I abandon TVs, deciding any major purchases from this point on will be done at Sears or CC. I walk over to the car stereo section, and change the display test model to the most annoying rap station I could find, then proceed to blast Puff fitty cent or what-have-you at an annoying level. I get the "can I help you?" not too long afterwards and start chatting with the clerk about what subwoofer is the best. Dollar signs in his eyes, I proceed to listen with half an ear as he extols the latest and greatest 12" with case and built-in amp. Meanwhile, I catch tattoo guy moseying on over to check out - I shit you not - Celine Dion CDs that are stationed close to the stereo section!
Breaking the poor salesguys's heart, I interrupt his explanation of how badly I'll need a PSP on the sub and ask him straight up does tattoo guy work for you? He glanced over at the guy and looked back at me and gestured me over to the cable section and said "Yeah, he does. He's security."
I thanked him, walked out the door, and was halfway to my car when I felt a tap on my shoulder. There, in the parking lot, was a manager (the name tag alluded to that fact) and a blue-shirt I hadn't remembered. They asked me to come back inside. Having yet another half hour to burn and wanting to clear my name, I went back in. I was escorted to an office. I was asked why I was wandering from dept. to dept. aimlessly. I was asked where was the DVD I stole. On and on. Finally Minnesota's finest shows up. I plead ignorance, knowing I had done nothing wrong. Finally it comes down to tape (I am running behind at this point, and I don't have my cell on me to call my sister and let her know what's happening. Best Buy, of course, won't let me make the local call. Meh, whatever. I'm having fun.)
So, in true NFL action, it comes down to me and the tape. The tape ends up clearing me; at no point do I do anything with any DVD except look at the back of it. After all that, I am escorted from the store by the cop, who says this happens waaaay too often, and told by the manager that I am not allowed there ever.
Needless to say, I'll never browse or buy at a Best Buy again. Their loss; I went to Circuit City and was met with the best of sales staff and dropped $300 on a new TV.
One thing I do recommend when you get good customer service though is to talk to a manager or send a letter. Yeah, it takes 15 minutes from Doom 3 and a stamp, but the feeling afterwards is well worth it. I even got a hand-written letter from the CC employee and a $5 gift card for my feedback. To this day, that $5, the letter, and the amazing customer service has done more for their business for me than anything else. I continue to shop there to this day and extol their virtues to others.
"This food is problematic."
I am a former employee of Best Buy and a current resident of Ohio - I won't say who I am or what I did there but my former supervisor is on their website, on the Executive team list.
I can confirm their rebate practices are less than stellar. For years Best Buy had a "rebate center" in each department that consisted of a rudimentary wire recipe rack, for lack of a better description, with paper coupons from each respective manufacturer. Customers were supposed to use the coupon from the rebate center, send it directly to the manufacturer and wait patiently for 6-8 weeks for their rebate. It was totally hands-off for Best Buy.
Unfortunately, that didn't work very well. Stores were frequently out of the rebate coupons, didn't have the correct ones, the manufacturers would send the wrong ones or too few - whatever the case was, it turned out to be a tremendous headache. Not to mention the "recipe racks" were hard to keep organized and the rebates were freqently misplaced.
Fast-forward to ~1996. In an effort to streamline the process and take some burden off of the sales personnel, the merchandising dept (shelf-stockers) were handed a brand new, nifty, Rebate center that went in the front of the store, organized by department that really ended up just consolidating the recipe racks to a central location. The problem still existed of the missing, disorganized rebate coupons.
Later that year Best Buy decided to make a real effort to fix the rebate problem. That's when the current system was implemented. Corporate management decided to outsource the handling of rebates to Young America, Inc. (www.young-america.com).
Young America did a decent job of handling the rebate outsourcing for a very brief time. I can't speak intelligently of their corporate structure, governance, or policies. However, all of this rebate outsourcing occured during an explosive growth period in Best Buy's corporate history. They are currently opening about 50-60 stores per year in 2004. Between 1993 and 1997 they more than doubled thei size. They had a corporate paradigm shift during all of this when they realized that they were outgrowing their ability to manage it and continue providing the kind of service that enabled them to grow at that rate.
Unfortunately, it seems, the growth spurt never stopped. Eventually the over-riding vision was to break the $20 billion revenue mark. Add-on accessories and service plans became the pot of gold at the end of their rainbow and rebates became the tool to get the sale. This all happened in the mid to late 90's when computer prices were falling rapidly, DVD players were becoming affordable, and the dotcom boom was impending - manufacturers were pushing rebates like mad thus Best Buy was too.
Outsourcing the rebate processing was a mistake for Best Buy. Not that Young America can't handle the volume or the execution - It's because it enables Best Buy to take the hands-off approach and essentially tell its customers that it can't help them because it's being handled by another company. This presents the largest problem for them - they won't stand behind their rebates. Anyone that has tried to resolve a rebate issue should be able to attest that managers at the store level will not do very much to assist in the matter other than hand out the 800-number to Young America. This is unfortunate because the consumer purchased a product from Best Buy and typically makes no distinction between a manufacturer's rebate and where they purchased the product. Consumers rightfully expect a retailer to stand behind the offer they willfully advertised in a weekly sales flyer, not give a brush off that they aren't responsible because the rebate was offered by the manufacturer and is being handled by a third party.
It's not that they willfully and maliciously try to swindle their customers - They truly believe that it absolves them of the responsibility to provide the customer satisfaction in regards to reba
If you do what you always did, you get what you always got.
On the other hand, if the person selling the product deliberately misrepresents the product (despite any contrary information written into a piece of paper) this invalidates the contractual agreement. In fact, that person can be sued for fraud since BY LAW they're supposed to act in good faith. And that's true in all 50 states.
Your sales reps can't lie, then point to the warranty and say "but it is written there, so it doesn't matter what I actually said". Any first-year law student can provide you a clue if you need one. There is no point during a sale in which lying about a product (in this case, a warranty) is okay. EVER. You do not get any free "get out of jail cards" just because you give the customer a warranty pamphlet when you hand him the product.
The idea that a salesperson can say anything and that the "fine print" can indemnify them and their store from harm is a crock of urban myth horseshit. A common urban myth, it seems, but horseshit nevertheless.
Max
My god carries a hammer. Your god died nailed to a tree. Any questions?