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Gosling: If I Designed a Window System Today...

An anonymous reader writes "In his blog entry for the 10th August, James Gosling (finally) publishes a short paper he wrote in 2002 entitled 'Window System Design: If I had to do it over again in 2002'. His design is to make the window system do the absolute minimum and move all the work into the client."

6 of 431 comments (clear)

  1. Re:Wow comment on X by be-fan · · Score: 5, Informative

    Doubtful. Stripping things out is easy. Writing new stuff that works is hard. X is already moving in the direction Gosling mentioned. Both GTK+ 2.8 and Qt 4 will support rendering via OpenGL. Once you're rendering with OpenGL, you're 90% to wher eGosling is going. At that point, the X-server (actually, the DRI), becomes mostly a manager of window contexts, and doesn't lie at all in the hot-path from application to GPU. Sure, the X servers unused features will take up some space (not too much, though, the X server is only 1.7MB on my system, much smaller than the OpenGL library!) but that's not a huge price to pay for backwards compatibility.

    --
    A deep unwavering belief is a sure sign you're missing something...
  2. Re:Wow comment on X by nathanh · · Score: 5, Informative
    I can't count how many times I hear on /. someone saying that X is too bulky, etc, etc. And here's Gosling saying (2 years ago) that X is headed in the direction of slim and lightweight. Am I misreading what he's saying?

    No. You've read him correctly. What Gosling is saying is a simplified version of the X.org roadmap.

    For example, X11 contains a font renderer. The design is really ancient. No anti-aliasing. Poor kerning. Clients couldn't access the glyphs very easily, which made it impossible to do arbitrary things like strokepaths or proper printing. It kind of sucked. A number of font extensions were considered for XFree86. Any one of them would have addressed all of the existing issues but they were heavyweight solutions.

    So in the end Keith Packard wrote a better solution. He implemented the XRender extension. This extension simply knows how to draw rows of glyphs. It also knows about alpha masks (Porter Duff compositing). The client now turns the font (typically TrueType) into alpha-masked glyphs and sends the glyphs to the X server. If you're using a GNOME or KDE desktop with antialiased fonts then you're using Keith's XRender extension and client-side font rendering instead of the X11 font renderer. This is only practical because the client-side libraries (eg, libxft2) are shared.

    Another interesting example of "slimming down" the X server is the Composite extension. Rather than implement a heavy compositing engine in the X server, Keith designed this extension so it simply renders the window into offscreen memory. Another extension, XDamage, tells a special client called the "compositor" when any region of the window changes. The compositor then uses the XRender extension to render the damaged region with appropriate drop shadows and/or alpha masks. Notice how the rendering is still done by the X server so it can be hardware accelerated.

    For the future of X.org there is more of this "slimming down" being planned. Jim Gettys and Keith Packard gave a presentation in July 2004 where they suggest the future of X is as an OpenGL client. They are both keen on a new design where the X server stops being the arbitrator of video hardware. Instead it becomes an OpenGL client with direct access to the video hardware through the DRM, just like every other DRI client. There is a simpler version of that paper in the short slideshow Life in X Land.

  3. Re:Astonishing that Gosling is getting things wron by mpaque · · Score: 4, Informative

    In the Mac OS X window system, there's still clip lists, but they are not visible to the application. The app just draws in it's window buffers.

    The clips are needed to handle event routing, as you mention, and to take care of some subtle internal housekeeping, even when Quartz Extreme is in use. Since not all systems or graphics cards can run Quartz Extreme (there are certain specific graphics card capabilities needed) the clipping information is needed for software compositing cases.

  4. Re:Good idea by IamTheRealMike · · Score: 4, Informative
    I thought this urban myth had been dispelled years ago. If they're really preloaded at boot smart guy, how comes Word still starts in under 3 seconds when running on Windows emulation on Linux? How comes IE still starts faster than Firefox again, on Linux?

    No dude. They start fast because Microsoft really, really know how to optimize their software to start fast, and because that's always been a corporate priority for them. Research has shown that given two roughly equivalent apps, most people will decide on the basis of which one starts faster.

    That doesn't mean they're using dirty tricks. Look into working set optimizers some time.

  5. Re:Question by nathanh · · Score: 5, Informative
    My level of understanding on this is pretty low, but what differentiates DRI from SHM and DGA?

    DGA is Direct Graphics Access. It allows a client to directly access the framebuffer. The client needs to handle all the pixel packing models (eg, RGB555, RGB888, RGBA8888) and work out the line strides and so on.

    MIT-SHM is MIT Shared Memory. Though the magic of shared memory, the client and server share a piece of memory containing an XImage or a Pixmap. The client can change the contents and then tell the server to render the image/pixmap to screen.

    DRI is the most complicated of the bunch. It stands for Direct Rendering Infrastructure. The basic explanation is that it allows a client to send commands directly to the video card. At the moment the only DRI implementation is OpenGL. So for example, quake3 links to libGL.so which is a DRI aware library. The library finds out which video card you have and loads the appropriate video card driver. This driver knows how to turn OpenGL commands into the hardware commands for your video card. These commands are shoved into a buffer which is provided by DRM (the DRI kernel module) and then blasted off to the video card. X only gets involved to setup cliplists and create windows; the actual 3D rendering is all done from the client directly to the hardware.

    Those 3 extensions take care of the biggest bottlenecks in X: framebuffer access, image transfers, and 3D streams. There are some other issues with the X pipe - things like latency moreso than throughput - but I'm not sure that removing the X pipe would solve those problems. The biggest issues with X on Linux right now are things like latency, single-threading, libraries that block, lack of double buffering, lack of synchronisation between window managers and widgets and clients, etc.

  6. Re:Good idea by wormbin · · Score: 4, Informative

    I can't speak about the way the preload problem is handled today but when I worked at Microsoft (10 years ago) we spent an insane amount of effort to get the apps to load faster, or more accurately, to give the apps the appearance of loading more quickly. Often at startup we would just load as little of the app we could to render the main frame and then load the actual functional code in the background.

    This was prioritized over code maintainabilty, obviously some features, and even some bugs.

    I really can't see this being a huge priority in open source projects since code maintainability (modularity) and the associated flexibility is such a high priority in most of them. Just look at linux bootup. You could probably speed things up significantly by not running all those sh scripts in /etc/init.d/ (or running them after the console login has appeared, giving the appearance of boot) but what developer would give up that flexibility for a little speed?