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Red Hat Walks The Linux Tightrope
Brainsur writes "ZDNet reports about Redhat : European marketing director Paul Salazar admits there have been plenty of screw-ups along the way but that Red Hat is now working hard to please the open-source community and investors alike. Making money from open source is a balancing act. While your underlying product is forged in the white-hot fires of online altruism, the success of your business means striking pleasing postures for the investment community."
means striking pleasing postures for the investment community
I disagree completely. What it means is that you need to do right by your investors, not the investing community in general. If you're an open-source based company, your investors should realize that, and, if they are unhappy with the way you are treating your company, they have the option of selling it, or trying to force a hostile takeover.
An open-source company has to keep it's reputation, and it's actions towards the community as it's most important goal, because teamwork requires goodwill. The problem comes with all of the investment companies who buy into Redhat not because of who they are, but because of how much money people think they can make them. (It should be a little of both.)
Once that is accomplished, the rest should fall into place. The attitudes and actions of the company should determine the value of the company. It shouldn't be the other way around.
I must admit, I'm a bit cynical, and thus I have some trouble believing in altruism. I think Richard Stallman had a brilliant idea with the GPL. It was a way to turn the selfishness of every programmer, that desire to be able to look at how something was done, to both his advantage, and the advantage of people around the world.
:)
Slightly OT, but you know, i always thought the very same. Not only that, but i feel programmers put more effort in making their sources easy to follow when they are open source - there are OS sourcecodes that are a mess, but most of them are extremely tidy and, in a sense, "well presented". No wonder why bugs in open source are corrected so promptly - programmers love to show off
> Profiting off of Open Source requires that a
> business must sometimes give valuable IP back to
> "the community" for no direct financial reward in
> order for them to have the credit in the community
> to get the development they need in the future.
In other words, you want to use Open Source, you must "pay" the price in development effort. Or else. I don't know about you, but I prefer traditional business contracts with the price clearly stated upfront instead of this nebulous "you must contribute" obligation where you can always be accused of "not pulling your load". Of course, most companies do not sell their source code, as I am sure at least one hundred replies to this post will indignantly point out, but that is not the issue here: my complaint is about honesty. If you want to call your software "free" (as in beer), you better damn stand by that and not arrogantly state that "Profiting off of Open Source requires that a business must sometimes give valuable IP back to the community". I have no problem with those who require payment for their work, be it money or development effort, but you better state that before "giving away" your software, and you better not be calling it "free" (that last one for you, GPL!). In the business world, such practices are called bait-and-switch, and are illegal. Of course, on Slashdot, any Open Source criticism is flamebait, so I guess I am just wasting karma points...
When I first tried Linux I started with redhat 5.0 and got a bad taste in my mouth toward linux at first. Things that really irked me personally were that every time I had to compile anything from source that I had to install a diffrent compiler from the get go. Seemed like they were always including some version of gcc that sucked. I dident care for the way that network interfaces were handled. RPM worked great for the redhat packages but for every 3rd party package it was dependancy hell as there always seemed to be some strange lib that was always needed but no reference to the package name! I applaud thier efforts but thier distro was definately not for the desktop. Of course I should shut up because I am now very pleased with using slackware on my servers and on the desktop. I know there are better distros for desktop linux but slackware is very easy to use for just what you want and nothing more. I can compile without having to replace gcc right off the bat and package management is easy any way you want to go. I wish them the best of luck and they are a great choice if you need support but if not there are better distros out there.
Got hosting
I often hear people bitching about Red Hat. Sometimes it gets old, bitching about Microsoft I suppose. Not enough bitching about Apple's elitism for damn sure...
I've used RedHat since 5.2, and now I run Fedora, I still have all the functionality and features of any other distro. I'm still not running Windoze. Still compile any kernel or source I need. Still not paying for my OS. And I'm willing to bet my systems are up and running from a blank hard drive a hell of lot quicker than those of the whiners.
RedHat has done more for linux that any company out there, go dig up some stats about which distros corporations are adopting (READ: REPLACING WINDOWS SERVERS) the most. With all due respect - you are *not* going to find Gentoo or Slackware on that list. Suse is still a distant second. Where will Linux hurt the pocketbook of M$ the most? Corporate America, that's where. I'm sorry, but as a linux protagonist, that is where my priorities lie - working on curing the disease that is Microsoft
Despite it's blunders - sociopolitical or otherwise - RedHat has done a LOT for linux and for that we owe them thanks if nothing else.
RedHat is not the enemy.
-- kortex "Not everything that counts can be counted, and not everything that can be counted counts"
...striking pleasing postures for the investment community.
Yeah, who needs customers so long as some chump is giving us venture capital!
Now order me up another one of those Aeromonto chairs and install a Pac Man in the executives washroom!
We do computers! The laws of economy do not apply!
I don't need no instructions to know how to rock!!!!
Interesting theory. I never thought of it this way.
;)
I _really_ agree with your statement that the greatest high for us is to see that our software is used by others. I don't have much released but whenever I do get feedback I feel great. It's not just programmers -- artists, musicians, authors. All people have that desire.
I actually think that your representation is probably a better way to understand the success of Free Software. Altruism, in its purest sense, doesn't really work in reality. But it's not just giving away software -- you get something back in return. On the individual level, which is really the most important since people, not companies, are the ones who actually make things happen, this desire provides the fuel necessary to keep working.
This isn't being writen as clearly as I would have hoped. On pain-killers -- just had my wisdom teeth pulled.
But I love to study systems. Game theory and all that. I have used the Free Software Community as an example in game theory discussions. It is a great example because it demonstrates exactly what makes Free Software great and a sustainable system.
When you give something out without the receiving population being obligated to use it the satisfaction in seeing it used is that much greater. This is duplicatable. It can help large businesses make their workers work harder. It can make students work and study harder. It works. And it is also why Free Software is such a great ssytem to study and is one of the lessons it can provide others.
Thank you for pointing it out. I will try to reply later when these pain killers have warn off. I"m really having a hard time concentrating.
(i don't think you have to be cynical to think this. i am an optimist and I am particularly optimistic because I think I deal with reality and not with fantasies.)
What comes first, finding a teacher or becoming a student?
Any business likes to create externalities, that is, it will pass costs on to others if it can. If the business can use free air and has a choice of cleaning it up or releasing it polluted, the obvious choice is to release the air polluted. It's cheaper and the profits are greater. The only restraint is usually the law. (although occasionally public pressure forces a business to behave.)
...)
In the case of free software, we have the case where the environment bites back immediately. It immediately punishes 'pollution'. My hope is that Red Hat et al find business models that work. Perhaps these business models can then be translated to other industries. ie. Open source business models might show us how to protect the environment.
Certainly, open source proves that profit is not the only way to incentivise the creation of value. This is good because economic theory lately has been going in a rather bad direction in terms of protecting the environment and our liberties.
An example of this is medical research. Research used to be conducted like open source. Now most research is funded by drug companies. The result is that if a disease can't be profitably be treated with a drug, it will be ignored. Cures that are not drug based are ignored. There will be no research that proves that cancer can be cured for free. Serious economists are starting to realize that this is a bad thing.
In "The Success of Open Source", Steven Weber cites a variety of sources that prove that open source is a better way to produce many 'goods'.
Anyway, the bottom line is that I'm cheering for Red Hat (and Suse and Mandrake and Debian
Why mod this to 0?
Debian is always good, stable, and apt, deselect etc really are great.
I have a couple of DEB boxes running, and they just run forever, oh so stable.
Linux needs Debian, and choices in general,
There is even room for the (slack, Gentoo) zealots.
CHeers
* Carthago Delenda Est *
Simple - Novell is not dumb enough to release the majority of their products as 'Suse only' They know RedHat has a huge installed base. Sure they want to build support for Suse distros - but if they go down the path of 'Suse or nothing' then I believe they will fail. In various discussions with Novell regarding Suse (I work in IT at an east cost university), they have been clear that RedHat Ent support for their stuff was important. I think the better context for the question you asked is - where are RedHat's value added services? Novell can give Suse away and still make money off the top level stuff - Novell services on Linux, edirectory, etc just like IBM does. You make the money of the commercial/enterprise apps. WHo cares if you make $10 on the base level OS package you run it on?
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There's way too much nonsense spouted about Red Hat. Some people see that they're making money (that usually means, performing a valuable service to society) and think that's somehow impure.
Holy crap. Have you been hiding in a closet somewhere?
First people whine and complain that Redhat exercises too much control over linux via their very own distribution, then when they turn control of that same distribution over to a community project (Fedora) the same people complain that Redhat abandoned them!
WTF? Fedora isn't perfect but it sure as heck isn't going to dissapear on a the whim of Redhat stockholders. Personally, I think Fedora has jumped light years ahead of the previous redhat versions and I'm looking forward to the next edition...
Why not? That's how MINIX was used, and Linux was originally intended as a replacement for the MINIX kernel.
GCHQ Quantum Insert installed. If only our tongues were made of glass, how much more careful we would be when we speak
the white-hot fires of online altruism
I don't think so. Linux was forged in the 'white-hot fires of online self-interest'; altruism had nothing to do with it. The payoff was different things to different people, and since an easy concept like money wasn't involved a good many folks have a difficult time understanding and instead use the catch-all 'altruism' to explain it. Here are a few of the payoffs:
(1) Reciprocal contribution. Contribute code to a work and you encourage others to do the same. Whether you understand it on a conscious level or not the end result is a product that works better for EVERYONE involved. Everyone wins.
(2) 'Scratching the itch'. This certainly seems to be Linus's motivation for working on Linux. He does it because he enjoys it. He's stated, publicly, that he'd work on Linux even if no one else did. Linus's motivations, and the motivations of others like him, are no different than any other hobbyist: personal satisfaction. That's their 'coin'.
(3) Public recognition. Some coders code for kudos and respect.
(4) Practice and portfolio. Some folks work on open source projects to improve their skills AND their resume for jobs that pay money.
These are just some of the reasons I can list off the top of my head. But 'altruism' isn't a driving force for Linux development, and I seriously doubt that pure altruism (if there even is such a thing) accounts for the motivations of more than a tiny fraction of all coders.
Max
My god carries a hammer. Your god died nailed to a tree. Any questions?
It sounds to me like you are complaining because the GPL is fair.
Actually, you sound like a troll, but I'm not quite certain. You appear too intelligent to be a stupid as you are also appearing, though.
The GPL was not created for the benefit of companies, it was created for the benefit of generous programmers. Companies can, if they are careful, profit from it anyway, but they are truly of secondary concern. It also wasn't created to allow ANYBODY to make money from it. But it also wasn't created to prevent that. The GPL isn't about money! If you're fixated on that, go play in a different field.
Yes, everyone needs to make a living. This doesn't mean that everything they do is for the purpose of making a living, and those who *do* live that way are pretty shallow characters. And frequently suffer from strong moral defects (e.g. a certain Mr. McB*). Power is equally corrupting, though not quite as narrow. But the GPL ignores such goals. It just doesn't consider them at all. (So it's also an incomplete recipie for how to live one's life...but it doesn't pretend to be one.)
So the question them becomes: How is a company to earn money in the context of a community bound together in the context of an essentially artistic covenant like the GPL. The first rule is, AND MUST BE, honor the covenants of the community. If you don't, then expect to be at best considered as an outsider. If you HAVE been a respected member of the community and you betray the conenants, then you should the community to consider you a traitor, which you would, in fact, be. (Follow the syllogism backwards.)
Now it's a given that the community is not homogenous, so there will be variations in what is considered acceptable behavior... Caldera was considered a genuine, if fringe, member of the community. It's behavior was considered borderline acceptable. I have never considered Lindows/Linspire to be a member of the community. They just don't appear to either accept the principles of the community, or to be interested in joining it. BUT THEY AREN'T REQUIRED TO! They appear to be a friendly hanger on. They fill a niche that no good community member has filled, so they aren't even competing (which would be fair, if unpleasant). Sun, OTOH, seems to be an MPD case, which has personalities which are members of the community, and personalities which aren't. Their collective actions render them beyond the bounds of the community, but it's not clear that they are traitors in any normal sense of the word. More like a psychopath. You sure can't trust them, but sometimes they're friendly, and make you want to trust them. But the upshot is that you can't trust them.
So another characteristic that a company must have is that it must be trustworthy. This is difficult, as companies are inherently untrustworthy. (All it takes is one change in management.) And this means that the FOSS communities can't ever allow any one company to become too important. If that's your goal, go play somewhere else.
That's probably too much, even if I could continue, and so goodbye without a conclusion.
I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
Holy shit, that was painful to read. I wonder if Jeff just has atrocious reading comprehension, or if he is _willfully_ refusing to understand what the problem is. Even trying to get the point across through communicating with him in pseudocode (good idea, given that some people who can be competent programmers are sometimes UTTERLY incompetent when communicating with other people) failed. As did the attempt at reverse psychology. Nope... no benefit-of-doubt for this guy. He's a moron, and RedHat should get rid of him, or at the very least reassign him to a position where he has no direct contact with end users.
Spoken by someone who clearly doesn't know Debian. This FUD is getting really old for a lot of us. I've been using Debian unstable for at least three *years* with only one catastrophic failure which I solved by booting off my "emergency boot disk" (a Knoppix CD) and reverting the package that caused the problem.
Unstable is constantly *CHANGING*, *not* constantly broken, that's what Debian means by "unstable". If you were more familar with Debian you would also know there *is* a middle ground and there is more to Debian than apt-get. There is aptitude and synaptic, which make it easy to more finely control the updates of your system, allowing you, for example, to only update the things you need and put the rest on hold, so you miss 95% of the minor problems that everyone suffers because they always run apt-get upgrade and update the world once or twice a day, when they probably don't *need* to have the latest and greatest of every package, and they are very unlikely to need it within 24 hours after its been released.
Bottom line: Using Debian Sid *responsibly* (update only what you need, and only once ever 7-10 days, not daily) is just as safe as using any other recently released distro. If it weren't, there wouldn't be so many people like me doing it.
P.S.: Cool kids want to get work done too!