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MPAA Piracy Survey - Junk Research

Cpt_Corelli writes "Alwayson network claims that a recent survey conducted by Online Testing Exchange (OTX) and distributed by the Motion Picture Association of America (MPAA) is crap. The MPAA's summary of the survey claims, among other hard-to-believe assertions, that 'about one in four Internet users have downloaded a movie.' (It turns out this isn't true, but this is the factoid that was heard around the world the following week.) When did you stop trusting sponsored 'research'?"

23 of 409 comments (clear)

  1. Well... by wolrahnaes · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Since when would we trust the MPAA anyways?

    --
    I used to get high on life, but I developed a tolerance. Now I need something stronger.
    1. Re:Well... by celeritas_2 · · Score: 5, Insightful
      It shouldn't matter whether 1 in 4 or 1 in 4000 computer users download movies, what really matters is this:

      Does movie downloading affect the economy of movie makers and all their dependancies in a major way?

      Do those thieving, monopolizing, overcharging bastards deserve so much of our money?

      How extensive should media creators' controls be over their 'art'?

      And finally: Who actually gives a shit?

      --
      -- Checking emails and kicking cheats `till the day I die.
    2. Re:Well... by Nos. · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Does movie downloading affect the economy of movie makers and all their dependancies in a major way?

      Doesn't matter. Deciding if something is wrong or right should not depend on how it effects the economy

      Do those thieving, monopolizing, overcharging bastards deserve so much of our money?

      Again, doesn't matter. If they own the rights, they can do whatever they want as long as they are not violating other laws.

      How extensive should media creators' controls be over their 'art'?

      Relevant! I'm a firm believer that if someone creates a work of art they should be able to charge whatever they want to people who want a reproduction or to view/listen to that art. Now art is defined pretty loosely here, especially considering some of the stuff that hits the theatres. If I don't want to pay $x to see a movie or purchase a CD, then I have that right. I do not have the right to have in my posession a reporduction of that right because I don't agree with the authors/copyright holders.

    3. Re:Well... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful
      If they own the rights, they can do whatever they want as long as they are not violating other laws.
      Doesn't matter. Deciding if something is wrong or right should not depend on laws.
    4. Re:Well... by Rasta+Prefect · · Score: 5, Insightful
      Doesn't matter. Deciding if something is wrong or right should not depend on how it effects the economy,

      It most certainly does in this case.

      Again, doesn't matter. If they own the rights, they can do whatever they want as long as they are not violating other laws.

      And again, it does in this case. Intellectual property rights are completely artificial constructs created for the purpose of providing economic benefit. From the US Constitution: "To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries". Copyright is a totally artificial construct designed to promote creative work by creating a government-imposed limited monopoly. It's not even enshrined as a "The government shall not" it's a congress can if they want to. This isn't murder or theft or restriction of free speach we're talking about here, we're talking about violation of temporary monopoly granted for the public good. The entire point is to provide an economic benefit so that creators will create. If a use does not affect that incentive, then it shouldn't be considered "wrong". The MPAA/RIAA has done it's best to confuse copyright with being an actual, natural right on the level of free speech or life and liberty. Apparently it's working.

      --
      Why?
    5. Re:Well... by NanoGator · · Score: 4, Insightful

      "If I don't want to pay $x to see a movie or purchase a CD, then I have that right. I do not have the right to have in my posession a reporduction of that right because I don't agree with the authors/copyright holders."

      Perhaps not. However, the problem with movie piracy (on the net, I'm not referring to selling $1 DVD copies of screeners...) to the MPAA is that it levels the playing field to be more fair towards the consumer. They have a business model I refer to as "open your mouth and close your eyes". You cannot get your money back if you're disatisfied unlike just about anything else you can buy. As such, movie makers can get away with sup-par movies and recieve money even though the consumer did not get the satisfaction he or she was paying for.

      You're probably thinking I'm trying to justify downloading of movies. Frankly, it's not something I do. I have a substantial DVD collection but my computers only have a couple of rips I've downloaded. They are of movies I already have. I'm an artist. I make content for a living. I'm working on a movie right now. I don't want to lose my job because the movie wasn't successful, even if the blame could land squarely on piracy. However, there's something I have to think about: Content making is an art form, but it is also a business. We all paid to go see Matrix. We all paid to go see Star Wars, despite all the grumbling we did about it. If the movie I'm working on didn't generate the interest for people to run out and go see it, I can't say that piracy was the issue. The issue was that we did something wrong. Maybe the movie sucked, maybe we didn't market it well, maybe we asked too much for it. Yeah, maybe the result is a bunch of individuals did something wrong, that doesn't mean that we didn't either.

      So what do I do? I have confidence it'll be a good movie. We're all working to make it that way. It's effort that is MUCH better spent than running ads to guilt people into paying for it. I want to make money from this, but I don't want to do it and leave people saying "man, what a rip-off."/i.

      --
      "Derp de derp."
    6. Re:Well... by Daniel_Staal · · Score: 4, Insightful
      Ideally, the law should codify what is right and wrong, in as many cases as possible (there will always be exceptions). So while it should not depend on the law, it should certainly be reflected by the law.

      NO!

      The law should codify only what is necessary for people to get along together in one world. Ethics should not be even brought up; they are irrelevant, except in the practical case.

      The law is not about what is right and wrong. Or even what is moral and immoral. It is about keeping society functioning. What makes it possible for you to walk around without worrying about the safety of your life, limb, and property. It makes sure you pay the costs of your actions, good or bad, right or wrong, legal or illegal. And none of those categories necessarily overlap.

      The moment the law starts to be based on what is 'right' and what is 'wrong' we start having trouble. Always

      --
      'Sensible' is a curse word.
    7. Re:Well... by platypibri · · Score: 5, Insightful
      The law should codify only what is necessary for people to get along together in one world. Ethics should not be even brought up; they are irrelevant, except in the practical case.

      This is nonsense. ALL law is ethics defined. We have an ethic against stealing, and a law against it. Now, you say that is only right and natural, but many Native American cultures had no sense of possesion, and therefore, NOTHING could be stolen. Our speed laws are morally derived from how fast you can go without being a danger to others "IN IDEAL CONDITIONS". Yes, this means you can rightfully get a ticket for doing 65 on the freeway in the fog, because you may not care for your life, but you are morally and legally required to not put others in danger. All law we have limits people from performing actions deemed hurtful to others which is ethics at it's very core. And I , for example COULD get a big stick and beat you till you saw it my way, but I am ethicly, and legally prevented from doing so, much to our benefit.

      In conclusion in our society you, other than through participartion or lack there of, have no rights when it comes to what another has created. None. Fair use is a courtesty extended, nothing more. And while I like the idea of fair use, my only way to lobby for it is with what I choose to buy and not buy.

      --
      Yeah, I guess I'm funny like that.
    8. Re:Well... by BitterOak · · Score: 4, Insightful
      Hate to break it to you, but laws are built upon morals.

      Actually, in America, laws are built on rights. We have a right to life, therefore laws against murder. We have a right to personal property, therefore laws against stealing, etc. etc. One's morality is an individual concept. People of differing religions, for example, would have different ideas of what is morally right and wrong. Trying to codify such morals into laws would lead to very little freedom for individual choice for the individual, and it is such freedom which America has traditionally championed.

      --
      If I can be modded down for being a troll, can I be modded up for being an orc, or a balrog?
  2. just love statistics by pvt_medic · · Score: 4, Insightful

    People wo think that statistics are the straight truth are idiots. This is just a further example of how one can easily manipulate numbers to prove a point. Simpel you take the number of downloaded movies, and divide by the number of people online, and you could create a stat that justifies this claim, or just look at subsection like china and be like everyone has pirated software on thier computer so therefore everyone must be pirating worldwide.

    --
    30% Troll, 50% Underrated, 10% Interesting
    Score:5, Troll
  3. When did you stop trusting sponsored 'research'? by iBran · · Score: 4, Insightful

    You don't trust sponsored "research", period.

  4. "Stop" trusting? by Chmcginn · · Score: 5, Insightful
    That assumes we ever trusted it to begin with...

    Okay, seriously, for the slightly less-paranoid... It's always a good idea to find out, at the very least,

    a.)Who payed for the research

    b.)Who they work for/own stock in/represent/want you to vote for.

    While most of the time, a research group is not going to make up numbers out of whole cloth, writing the questions in a way that could influence the result is bound to happen most of the time.

    --
    Have you been touched by his noodly appendage?
    1. Re:"Stop" trusting? by EpsCylonB · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Put more simply...

      "wheres the money ?"

      this question will help you solve most of the problems you come across in life.

  5. Who else to trust? by glpierce · · Score: 4, Insightful

    If you're not going to trust 'sponsored' research, you've got no one to trust. All research is funded by someone, and that someone always has something to gain or lose (why else pay for it?). Who would pay for studies of internet movie downloading, aside from movie studios and internet corporations? What's important is to look at the studies from the opposing sides so that you can draw a line down the middle or test each against each other.

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    G
  6. skewed by randallschleufer · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Surveys can easily be skewed, you just have to know how to ask the questions. If I asked my mother if she has ever downloaded a movie off the internet, she would respond "Yes"... because she considers all those little movieclips, and streaming media to be "Movies". In that respect, it would be very easy to conceive that 1 in 4 people have downloaded a movie off the internet.

  7. All sponsored research is not bad by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Sponsored research is not automatically bad.... there are a number of areas where interest is not widespread beyond the industry players in that industry, so they are the only ones who will foot the bill.

    Plus, there can be biased research that is not funded by insiders.... that simply is not a way to distinguish the good from the bad.

    What is really proper, is to demand that all surveys 1) release the entire raw data set, 2) release the entire question sample, and 3) all other information so it can be replicated and peer reviewed.

    This is standard fare in other industries, and most legitimate survey takers already do it.

    The better test to detect bogus research, is not to ask who paid for it, but to ask if they are complying with the above criteria.

  8. I'll believe a study... by Short+Circuit · · Score: 4, Insightful

    ...when it was funded and published by a company it harms.

    Of course, we'll later learn it was just to bolster a less obvious plan.

  9. Re:OK, And? by Richard_at_work · · Score: 4, Insightful

    A bank can post record profits, but fraud against that bank is still wrong.

  10. Viewing Atom Films makes you a criminal by micron · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I really enjoyed the idea that the MPAA took this survey as 25% of all internet users download movies. As the article points out, it never dawned on them that you can LEGALLY download movies all over the place. Given, these are not your Hollywood blockbusters, but they are still movies that are being downloaded.

  11. Flops and Sardine Cans by Hypharse · · Score: 5, Insightful
    "When did you stop trusting sponsored 'research'?"
    The second it became sponsored by someone out for a profit and not for the knowledge. The MPAA is sure not winning fans and have learned from the RIAA the art of looking in the wrong direction. LOTR dvd sales alone are probably enough for a profit and everyone knows the incredible amounts of money it made at the box office. Then you realize that typically LOTR fans are geeks, and tend to be the ones that WOULD download a movie on the internet. This should lead to the conclusion that piracy doesn't mean much even if it IS as prevalent as they want you to think (even though it isn't). And what the hell is with the ads AT the movie theaters telling the people who BOUGHT A FREAKING TICKET TO THE MOVIE that it's wrong to pirate.

    Instead what they like to do is include the stats for the amount of geeks downloading LOTR, then combine it with the box office busts like Catwoman and say "See! People aren't seeing movies because they can just download it." They conveniently forget the fact that watching your cat lick herself while taking a piss in the litter box is more entertaining than watching Catwoman. Hopefully someone in congress will wise up to the RIAA and MPAA games and give them a swift kick in the caboose.

  12. Re:Tobacco sponsored research did it for me. by jsprat · · Score: 4, Insightful
    That doesn't mean 4 out of 5 doctors total smoke them, or that 4 out of 5 doctors recommend you smoke them.

    But that is the ad's intent. The point is not about the truth of the research, it's about the presentation. What do "doctors" who smoke have to do with the best/healthiest/coolest brand of cigarettes? Nothing really, but the connection Winston was trying to make is so obvious I can't believe you missed it - if doctors smoke them, they must be the right brand to smoke.


    Nothing is wrong with the statement in itself. The research may have been repeatable and the methodology may be sound. Hell, they may have surveyed every doctor on the planet! None of that matters, because the way the statistic is used is the problem. It is intentionally misleading to a casual reader in order to promote Winston's best interests.

  13. Accuracy is no longer enforced by mabu · · Score: 5, Insightful

    In-a-nutshell, the last 10-15 years has shown a trend in advertisers and corporate interests to be more and more bold about asserting hyperbole as fact.

    This is most obvious when you watch tv commercials. Ten or more years ago, a "dramatization" would more accurately reflect reality: a cleaning solution or drug visually-demonstrated to eradicate dirt or infection would always leave a few traces behind in the animation. Now, every demonstration of every product shows 100% success. Just yesterday I saw a commercial during the Olympics showing an American pickup truck towing a tractor trailer loaded with a half-dozen vehicles. Completely ludicrous and impossible, but they get away with it with a fleeing "dramatization" tag, knowing full well most peoples' attention spans skip over the fine print. And speaking of fine print, they slap the tiniest disclaimers on advertisements for the shortest periods of time - virtually impossible to read. Who enforces this stuff and why aren't they doing their job?

    Nobody seems to care so corporations become more and more cavalier and bold about misrepresenting reality and misleading the populace.

    Advertising has always been the art of lying, but in this new dawn of consumerism, corporate interests have the mantra that they don't have to spew anything that's accurate, factual or close to reality if they have the power and resources to repeat their misleading message in perpetuity - that act in itself, according to them, affirms the integrity of their claims. See: GW Bush, MPAA, RIA, SCO, etc.

    Now maybe at some point we'll reach critical mass with this BS, and the public will begin to trust nobody? Perhaps in another ten years substance and truth will be popular again? Who knows.

    I suggest rather than spit into the wind of corporate america by trying to refute the never-ending stream of inaccurate propaganda, we jump on the bandwagon and hasten the eventual flashpoint of total media & corporate cynacism.

    Everyone here should come up with at least one completely ridiculous "fact" or "figure" and do their best to propagate it. Maybe if enough of us pee into the already polluted river of corporate communication we can get the public to begin to seek more pure sources?

  14. Re:But, but... by aussersterne · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The point being what so many Slashdot posters have said before:

    People hate buying shit.

    People love buying things they enjoy, because they want to see more of them made.

    Or, to put it another way, consumers aren't stupid, they understand the power of their own dollars. People are just as smart as (if not smarter than) the RIAA/MPAA bosses: they won't waste their cash until they know their cash won't be wasted.

    Solution to the problem: create a product that people WANT TO SUPPORT and that people WANT MORE OF and it will sell well FOR THOSE REASONS.

    Anything else is just attempted blackmail and theft from consumers' pockets.

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    STOP . AMERICA . NOW