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Space Elevator Prizes Proposed

colonist writes "Space elevator proponents are planning competitions for space elevator technologies, similar to the Ansari X Prize. Elevator:2010 will organize annual competitions for climbers, ribbons and power-beaming systems. In other space elevator news, researcher Bradley C. Edwards recently left the Institute for Scientific Research to work at two companies on materials and technology. Also, the space elevator has caught the interest of Google's founders: 'At a space camp in Alabama last year, Brin talked about creating a space elevator to transport cargo up a special tether attached to earth. Also last year, Brin joined Page in proclaiming they should found a nanotech lab at Google.'"

12 of 214 comments (clear)

  1. Re:As I understand it... by mangu · · Score: 3, Informative
    It's pretty obvious one end hooks to Earth, but what do you hook the other to?


    An artificial satellite in geostationary orbit, that is at an altitude (close to 36000km) where the orbital velocitiy is the same as Earth's rotation.


    don't we then have to worry about the strength of the tethers


    Yes, that's the main problem.


    ultimately the consequences of altering Earth's rotation?


    No, since the satellite would be rotating at exactly the same speed as the Earth.

  2. I'm not so sure by cflorio · · Score: 4, Informative
    Before jumping to conclusions on how this is not possible, go ahead and pick up a copy of The Space Elevator Book.

    They do have the material, carbon nano tubes. They just can't be made to the length needed, yet. They have ideas on how to avoid the space junk.

    1. Re:I'm not so sure by g129951 · · Score: 2, Informative

      Orbital velocity is 17,551mph minimum for low earth orbit. That's Los Angeles to New York in a little more than 9 minutes and it gets you 16 orbits in a day --that's crossing the Equator on an ascending and descending node (that's where the cable would be) on every orbit.

      And you're right, relative velocities are the bigger problem, and not all of them are moving at the same speed.

      For small objects in near circular orbit it's bad enough, but not all objects are in near circular orbits. Some are in highly elliptical orbits --they travel slower at aphelion than at perihelion (these were called apogee and perigee when I took orbital mechanics 20 years ago) -think "screaming along" (Kepler's equal area in equal time law)

      If you want exact numbers of objects in orbit at specific altitudes you'll have to call NORAD or NASA --it's Saturday and they're probably bored so they won't mind. You might find a NASA site that has specifics, but I'd call NORAD (they own the radars).

  3. Re:kim stanley robinson by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    You're obviously referring to the Tethered Satellite experiment. That 20km tether was intended to generate power by running this conductive wire through the earth's magnetic field. Something like a large scale alternator. The damage was caused by a hole in this wire's outer insulation layer, coupled with the fact that the part of the tether giving its strength was able to hold enough air(oxygen) to permit this spark to burn long enough to break the tether. Of course, the satellite and the 19.8km of tether was lost. However, the test for generating power (at the expense of orbit altitude) was a success. This now proven technology can be used for satellite power generation, or even a fuelless orbit raising by applying a current to the tether.

  4. Re:As I understand it... by 26199 · · Score: 2, Informative

    Yes, it does have to be higher... since by definition it will be orbiting at the speed of rotation of the earth, anything lower than geostationary orbit is going too slowly and will tend to fall back; anything higher is going too quickly and will tend to move away from the earth.

    The idea is to have enough mass higher than geostationary orbit that this pull supports the rest of the structure.

  5. Re:As I understand it... by cjameshuff · · Score: 5, Informative
    A space elevator is a really long "superstrong" ribbon.
    Correct.
    But then things get confusing. It's pretty obvious one end hooks to Earth, but what do you hook the other to? The Moon? An asteroid?
    Not the moon. And not necessarily an asteroid, or anything. You could build a ribbon that extends far past GEO, and you won't need any kind of counterweight. As long as there is enough mass higher than GEO, the elevator will stay up.
    Assuming we find a substance strong enough to build such a cable from, don't we then have to worry about the strength of the tethers and ultimately the consequences of altering Earth's rotation?
    As mentioned, we have found materials strong enough, the problem is now producing them. And there will be no significant effects on Earth's rotation. Yes, momentum for the payloads will be taken from Earth's angular momentum...but Earth is really, really big and massive. Tidal effects with the moon will likely have greater effects than we could cause with beanstalks.
  6. Moron! by leonbrooks · · Score: 4, Informative

    You don't have the first clue how it all works, do you?

    --
    Got time? Spend some of it coding or testing
  7. They will learn to seperate "Google" by Goonie · · Score: 2, Informative

    Sooner or later, they will probably, like Bill Gates and Steve Jobs did, start to seperate their private enthusiasms from Google. Gates and Jobs both own private stakes in a number of companies and organisations, Jobs most famously with Pixar and Gates with an images company which I can't recall the name of just now.

    --

    Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from a rigged demo
    --Andy Finkel (J. Klass?)
    1. Re:They will learn to seperate "Google" by C60 · · Score: 2, Informative

      I believe you're thinking of Corbis, a stock photo agency.

      His investment company is called Cascade Investment LLC, and needless to say, he's all over the place.

      Some other investments of his (or at least of cascade investment):

      ICOS Corporation
      Teledesic
      Corixa
      Seattle Genetics
      Pain Therapeutics
      Alaska Air
      Boca Resorts
      Liberty Satelite and Technology
      Canadian National Railway
      Otter Tail Power
      Schnitzer Steel Industries
      Avista Corp
      Cox Communications
      Newport News

      Like I said, he's all over the place, steel companies, medical companies, stock photo agencies. I'm sure that there are a lot more companies not listed here. Having lived in Seattle for the last 14 years I keep hearing of both Cascade and Vulcan (Allen's pet money sink) investing in some random crap on what seems a daily basis.

      The above informatio is of course stolen from the results of random and assorted Google searches. How apropros.

      Links to the above sites and resources are left as an exercise of the reader.

      --
      Karma: 0 (But I wield a mean +10 Vorpal Apathy)
  8. busted cables? by positroniumman · · Score: 3, Informative
    now i thought that the amount of stresses in the cable meant that any type of space elevator would be unlikely without some very strong new material.

    for example, say i wanted to lift a 100kg man up to 380 km (ISS height). This would put a force of 1000N(the man) + 380km *area * density (of cable).area of say 30 cm^2 gives a force of 1000 +1140* density. failure is usually measured in stress (force per area) soooo lets see.....

    with
    material/stress/density steel 250Mpa 7850 kg/m^3 nanotubes 63GPa 3520kg/m^3 calculated stress steel = 2.9Gpa calculated nanotubes = 1.3 GPa

    SO nanotubes may handle the stress, but noone can make 380 km of nanotube rope yet. Even that much kevlar would be tough. and this is without incorporating the added stress of accelerating the man (starting his trip up the rope).

    In short, new materials are needed!

  9. Re:Google Should fund it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    Don't you know anything about space elevators? The best material is a carbon nanotube ribbon... if it was broken, it would just sorta drift down, probably not much faster than your average piece of paper.

  10. Re:sigh - not this again by Morphine007 · · Score: 2, Informative

    I've always thought that the main problem with this sort of thing would be the immense electrical charge difference in the various levels of the atmosphere

    Hrm... yes... very large potential difference across a conductor, sounds like a possible method of power(assist)ing this thing? IANAP though, I'm sure one can point out why this wouldn't work.