Microsoft Codec Required For Blu-Ray Players

dmayle writes "According to ExtremeTech, the Blu-Ray Disc Association (which consists of many big names, like Sony, Philips, and Pioneer) has decided to mandate Microsoft's VC-1 video codec. With HD-DVD incorporating Microsoft's patented video codecs as well, what will happen to the state of media players on Open Source? (Here's an additional source for Blu-Ray info)."

Comments

What will happen?

[Raleel]

It'll be reverse engineered. it'll happen in some other country. it'll move "underground". they'll be a giant legal battle.

Either that or it'll fail as a format. I'm kinda guessing the latter.

MS quality codecs....

[B5_geek]

I am 60% pleased, 30% worried, and 10% indifferent.
Pleased: Despite all the MS bashing that occurs here, MS does make some very nice A/V codecs.

Worried: MS has a history of hamstringing their good codecs with DRM and other crap too.

Indifferent: Nothing to see here folks, FOSS will reverse-engineer and/or come out with far better codecs.

Re:MS quality codecs....

[DreadSpoon]

"Indifferent: Nothing to see here folks, FOSS will reverse-engineer and/or come out with far better codecs."

Doesn't matter if they do or not. The point is that FOSS will never be legally allowed to play these *standard* media discs, ever. The codecs are patented and not available for Free. Every single set-top box or other such hardware will be forced to run at least partially closed software. They might even be forced not to use Linux/BSD/etc. if Microsoft won't release or license versions of their codecs for those OSes.

Even if we have a much better Free codec, that codec is worthless if every single DVD/movie released *must* be encoded in Microsoft's codecs because the standard mandates it and the hardware for playing those discs all supports Microsoft's codecs, but only one or two support the Free codec.

It's just like the MP3 situation. The vast majority of people, even geeks that are pro-Free Software, must use MP3, because many of their devices do not support Ogg Vorbis or another high quality Free codec.

Now that this standard is out that mandates Microsoft codecs, it can *never* be undone, because backwards compatibility must always be maintained in devices that use this standard (or you risk severely pissing off the end users who bought them or media for them), and that then mandates lockin to Microsoft and lockout of Free Software.

The only hope in this case is that this new technology doesn't catch on (DVDs are still fairly new, many consumers will resist another video format upgrade so soon) and that by the time the market is ready for an upgrade, another Free-friendly standard is dominant.

Re:MS quality codecs....

[Dr. Bent]

FOSS will reverse-engineer and/or come out with far better codecs.

Oh, you mean like the ogg codec? Yeah ogg is great. I love being able to play ogg file on my iPod..oh wait, no. I mean I love being able to stream them to my Tivo. Wait, no I mean, It's great that I can burn ogg files onto a cd and play them in my car mp3...er ogg...wait, no.

Better technical solutions do not prevail simply because they're better. Mandating a patented codec is a very bad thing because now legal (i.e. DMCA) and licensing issues become much more important than the technical merit of the codec in determining it's success. FOSS can't save you from Microsoft's undead army of lawyers and marketing drones in this case.

Two solutions, really...

[Noryungi]

• Either Microsoft opens up its codecs and makes them available for free software players. There is (IMHO) a small chance that Microsoft will actually do this, since the alternative could be another 'monopoly'-type lawsuit.
• Or the OSS community politely reminds the big corporations that it cannot be ignored anymore, and organizes either a boycott or creates an equivalent of these codecs. Or both (a boycott AND an equivalent).

All in all, I think this may be more of an annoyance than a real problem. But I'd be interested in the opinion of other /. readers.

Mandated for hardware, not software

[iainl]

"Even if we have a much better Free codec, that codec is worthless if every single DVD/movie released *must* be encoded in Microsoft's codecs because the standard mandates it"

The support for Media Player 9 codec is mandated for the players, to ensure that they are capable of showing video files encoded in that format. They are also mandated to do good ol' Mpeg 2 (just like DVD) and Mpeg 4 as well.

Of course, Mpeg 2 has its patents as well, but that doesn't seem to be hugely bothering people when discussing what this does over DVD, just because "Microsoft = Bad".

I'm just happy because a more efficient video codec leaves more room for audio on the discs, and we might see some MLP-encoded films.

Re:MSFT media domination begins?

[wolenczak]

It'll be the same history of DVD's, at first you will need a highend expensive player, and later you'll be able to purchase a fully functional chinese player for a fraction of the price. A guy will hack the codec, you will see a perl perl script in a TShirt, M$ will complain, RIIA will complain. And at the end nobody would care in the rest of the world except in the US.

Re:MSFT media domination begins?

[ron_ivi]

Let them.

I, for one, wish the MPAA, Microsoft, the RIAA, etc all the best in their attempts to protect and overcharge insane amounts for their content and media.

The more restricted the $40 DRM-enabled Brittney-Spears Clone that can only be played 3 times before triggering the $2/viewing per-use license becomes; the more opportunity there is for Creative-Commons-licensed music to become popular and mainstream.

As Sony/MPAA/Microsoft and nuts like Zaentz(the guy who sued Fogerty for sounding like Fogerty, and then brought us LotR) keep gettting greedier and greedier; they are in fact _creating_ the same kind of opportunity for reasonably licensed Arts that similar nutcases did for Open Source software when they thought they could charge $100 for commodities like OS's and Relational databases.

Let them kill themselves. Personally, I'll go see local bands that let me tape & publish MP3s of their shows and actually want people to hear their stuff.

Overcharge?

[ackthpt]

I, for one, wish the MPAA, Microsoft, the RIAA, etc all the best in their attempts to protect and overcharge insane amounts for their content and media.

Ok, I have to weigh in here in the interest of some objectivity. Most DVDs currently are in the $25 or less range. Most of the DVDs I've recently purchased have been $10 to $14. I don't see that as overcharging, particularly since a matinee ticket costs $5.00-$5.50 and as high as $9 for evening showings, and you have to schedule yourself to be at the theater at their showing time, not when best fits your schedule.

Some people apparently missed the Good Old Days when VHS tapes of movies were $30 up to $80 (one studio was always in the $70 to 80 range, while others were much lower) and if you adjust the dollars these would be considerably more in today's bucks.

Blank media may be pricey, but don't confuse that with what's on sale with content.

MPEG-2 and MPEG-4

[rd_syringe]

You know, it's not like MPEG-2 and MPEG-4 aren't patented codecs, either.

Re:MSFT media domination begins?

[accelleron]

The RIAA/MPAA will complain, no matter what.
It's a given:

They bitched when CD burners let us copy their precious music, albums at a time.

They bitched when players were released to play that [mp3] music, from CD/Flash/HDD

They bitched when DVD recordables were released to allow people to shrink and burn their precious movies.

They're bitching about the dual-layer DVD formar becoming recordable and available to the puclic.

Guess what they're going to do when we can slap 4-8 of their precious DVDs onto one BluRay disc for 50c? [hint: bitch.]