Posted by
CmdrTaco
on from the two-strikes-down dept.
NW writes "Following on the heels of Apache Foundation taking a stance against Sender-ID, the Debian Project announced today their rejection of Sender-ID as well."
Restrictive Patents
by
darkmeridian
·
· Score: 4, Insightful
Of course patent-encumbered standards will never take. Why do companies even hope that it will? Do they remember what happened to IBM and MCA?
-- A NYC lawyer blogs. http://www.chuangblog.com/
Re:Restrictive Patents
by
benjamindees
·
· Score: 5, Insightful
Although I hope you're correct, it's incredibly naive to believe so.
The truth is, proprietary 'standards' are all over the place. They are especially effective when directly-marketed to consumers, cutting out all the middle-men who might say "whoah there, that isn't a good deal" and replacing them with glossy print ads full of half-truths.
And, let's face it, Windows itself is the greatest direct-marketing tool ever created. I'm not looking forward to the direction this is going.
-- "I assumed blithely that there were no elves out there in the darkness"
Re:Restrictive Patents
by
Kjella
·
· Score: 4, Insightful
Sure, patent restricted formats doesn't do well... like gif (now expired), mp3, mpeg2, mpeg4, wma, wmv, ttf (pixel hinting algorithm), rsa (also expired) and so on and so on. You are using one of very few examples where it was "everybody against one". Consortiums and such or companies with little competition rarely have problem introducing patented standards.
Kjella
-- Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
The new MS Word "standard"
by
mariox19
·
· Score: 5, Insightful
Everybody here is no doubt familiar with the "unofficial standard" that is Microsoft Word: meaning, they have been sent Word documents or asked to send documents in Word format as if everybody used Word. Microsoft has ensured that the clueless masses default to Word's format as an Internet standard (or as an example of "best practices" -- to use the latest buzzword).
You can find examples of this in business, education, and government.
It's possible that we're going to see e-mail "evolve" in the same way. Ninety percent of e-mail flying around the Internet will use the new Sender ID standard; those not using it will seem odd and likely be forced to use it more often than not in their various business dealings.
Perhaps there will be no adoption of sender-id; perhaps an open solution will prevail. The reason the internet works as well as it does is open standards. Perhaps these companies that are trying to encumber "standards" are slowly learning that they will not gain the acceptance of their "standards" and will have to compete on the merit of implementations of open standards rather than locking people into a "standard". This is just the newest version of proprietary file formats; unfortunately it is the only way Microsoft knows to compete anymore. Rather than compete on a level playing field, Microsoft wants to lock you into their new "standard" rather than compete on the merits of their products.
-- Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart he dreams himself your master.
IETF should get its head out of its ass
by
njdj
·
· Score: 5, Insightful
As the Debian statement says, We are also concerned that no company should be permitted intellectual
property rights (IPR) over core Internet infrastructure.
Seems obvious to me. Why isn't it obvious to the IETF?
Debian again: We believe
the IETF needs to revamp its IPR policies to ensure that the core Internet infrastructure remain unencumbered.
Right on.
A company like Microsoft has no respect for the rights of others, no respect for ethics, no respect for the ideals of the people who built the Internet infrastructure for our benefit. I agree with Debian that no company should be permitted IP rights over core Internet infrastructure. But especially not a predatory company like Microsoft.
A moment's pity for Microsoft, please
by
ites
·
· Score: 4, Insightful
Apart from the fact that Microsoft are an incredibly wealthy and successful company, they deserve a moment's silent respect for their utter failure to understand the way the IT market is evolving.
The attempt to inject patents into anti-SPAM tools is well-founded for a company that wants to find new business models, but it's incredibly offensive to the Internet community. Not just "nerds" and "fanatics" exposing some radical political viewpoint, but the hundreds of thousands of hard-working people who actually built the servers that run the web.
Technology gets ever cheaper and this inevitably destroys old markets. For the world's largest software company to _still_ earn the bulk of its money from operating systems and office suites is quite amazing. These are commodity products and only sell through brute-force tactics that are eventually self-defeating.
Microsoft should step back from trying to control essential domains such as email, and focus on what they are really good at: providing the unwashed masses with easy-to-use, pretty front-ends. It's a market with huge potential but its success depends on a reliable and expanding back-end infrastructure, exactly the domain that Microsoft is incapable of delivering.
A message to Microsoft: please understand that open source is the key to your long term survival. Embrace it, or die. Open source is the cornucopia of software technology: it will create a hundred million new software consumers, and most of these will be potential new clients.
Just produce software they actually want, not software they are forced into buying by your devious political games.
When the Internet first became popular, Bill Gates announced that the Microsoft Network would be better. He was wrong, and after a couple of years, forced Microsoft to embrace the net rather than fight it.
The same is true of open source. It's only a conflict because Microsoft is refusing to face the inevitability of the situation.
A moment's pity, therefore. They may be rich. That does not make them either smart, or right.
-- Sig for sale or rent. One previous user. Inquire within.
Re:not possible for section 7 of the gpl
by
Alsee
·
· Score: 4, Insightful
Not supporting something that _might_ cut down on spam for reasons they give is stupid.
Your anger is misdirected.
Microsoft intentionally sabotaged the proposed standard to prohibit full deployment by inserting exclusionary patent terms. Microsoft is attempting to hijack this standard (and hijack an international standards body) to attack the GPL and similar software.
Many mail servers are under the GPL licence or similar licences. Those mail servers would be prohibited from adopting the standard. Any mail server which could and did adopt the standard (and thus Microsoft's poison pill) would then begin rejecting any mail from GPL (or similar) mail servers. The excluded mail servers, being unable to serve mail, would be exterminated.
Embrace, Extend, Exterminate. You should be angry at Microsoft for attempting to sabotage the standard, for attempting to block full deployment of the standard, for attempting to insert a poison pill into the standard.
-
-- - - You can't take something off the Internet! That's like trying to take pee out of a swimming pool.
Of course patent-encumbered standards will never take. Why do companies even hope that it will? Do they remember what happened to IBM and MCA?
A NYC lawyer blogs. http://www.chuangblog.com/
Everybody here is no doubt familiar with the "unofficial standard" that is Microsoft Word: meaning, they have been sent Word documents or asked to send documents in Word format as if everybody used Word. Microsoft has ensured that the clueless masses default to Word's format as an Internet standard (or as an example of "best practices" -- to use the latest buzzword).
You can find examples of this in business, education, and government.
It's possible that we're going to see e-mail "evolve" in the same way. Ninety percent of e-mail flying around the Internet will use the new Sender ID standard; those not using it will seem odd and likely be forced to use it more often than not in their various business dealings.
quiquid id est, timeo puellas et oscula dantes.
Perhaps there will be no adoption of sender-id; perhaps an open solution will prevail. The reason the internet works as well as it does is open standards. Perhaps these companies that are trying to encumber "standards" are slowly learning that they will not gain the acceptance of their "standards" and will have to compete on the merit of implementations of open standards rather than locking people into a "standard". This is just the newest version of proprietary file formats; unfortunately it is the only way Microsoft knows to compete anymore. Rather than compete on a level playing field, Microsoft wants to lock you into their new "standard" rather than compete on the merits of their products.
Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart he dreams himself your master.
We are also concerned that no company should be permitted intellectual property rights (IPR) over core Internet infrastructure.
Seems obvious to me. Why isn't it obvious to the IETF?
Debian again: We believe the IETF needs to revamp its IPR policies to ensure that the core Internet infrastructure remain unencumbered.Right on.
A company like Microsoft has no respect for the rights of others, no respect for ethics, no respect for the ideals of the people who built the Internet infrastructure for our benefit. I agree with Debian that no company should be permitted IP rights over core Internet infrastructure. But especially not a predatory company like Microsoft.
Apart from the fact that Microsoft are an incredibly wealthy and successful company, they deserve a moment's silent respect for their utter failure to understand the way the IT market is evolving.
The attempt to inject patents into anti-SPAM tools is well-founded for a company that wants to find new business models, but it's incredibly offensive to the Internet community. Not just "nerds" and "fanatics" exposing some radical political viewpoint, but the hundreds of thousands of hard-working people who actually built the servers that run the web.
Technology gets ever cheaper and this inevitably destroys old markets. For the world's largest software company to _still_ earn the bulk of its money from operating systems and office suites is quite amazing. These are commodity products and only sell through brute-force tactics that are eventually self-defeating.
Microsoft should step back from trying to control essential domains such as email, and focus on what they are really good at: providing the unwashed masses with easy-to-use, pretty front-ends. It's a market with huge potential but its success depends on a reliable and expanding back-end infrastructure, exactly the domain that Microsoft is incapable of delivering.
A message to Microsoft: please understand that open source is the key to your long term survival. Embrace it, or die. Open source is the cornucopia of software technology: it will create a hundred million new software consumers, and most of these will be potential new clients.
Just produce software they actually want, not software they are forced into buying by your devious political games.
When the Internet first became popular, Bill Gates announced that the Microsoft Network would be better. He was wrong, and after a couple of years, forced Microsoft to embrace the net rather than fight it.
The same is true of open source. It's only a conflict because Microsoft is refusing to face the inevitability of the situation.
A moment's pity, therefore. They may be rich. That does not make them either smart, or right.
Sig for sale or rent. One previous user. Inquire within.
Not supporting something that _might_ cut down on spam for reasons they give is stupid.
Your anger is misdirected.
Microsoft intentionally sabotaged the proposed standard to prohibit full deployment by inserting exclusionary patent terms. Microsoft is attempting to hijack this standard (and hijack an international standards body) to attack the GPL and similar software.
Don't beleive me? Read Micrsoft's own FAQ, question 15.
Many mail servers are under the GPL licence or similar licences. Those mail servers would be prohibited from adopting the standard. Any mail server which could and did adopt the standard (and thus Microsoft's poison pill) would then begin rejecting any mail from GPL (or similar) mail servers. The excluded mail servers, being unable to serve mail, would be exterminated.
Embrace, Extend, Exterminate. You should be angry at Microsoft for attempting to sabotage the standard, for attempting to block full deployment of the standard, for attempting to insert a poison pill into the standard.
-
- - You can't take something off the Internet! That's like trying to take pee out of a swimming pool.