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Using Debian in Commercial Environments?
sydb asks: "I am currently persuading my employer to try out Linux. We are heavily dependent on IBM software technologies just now, and it's a very conservative operations organization. As a challenge, I am trying to persuade them to use my preferred distro but there are hurdles: IBM doesn't officially support Debian as a platform, though I have anecdotal evidence that most of it can be persuaded to work (with alien etc). Does Slashdot have experience shoe-horning Debian into this kind of scenario? Most importantly, how have things gone getting IBM support? My rationale for pushing Debian boils down to its vast array of packages available to apt-get, easy upgrades, apt-get itself, and the overall quality and consistency of the system."
oh and a beowulf cluster of debian b0xen 0wns ppl in soviet russia, !!!!!!
in my mouth
Pioneer get shot in back with arrow by Indian.
'nuff said.
I'll have to second this. Debian is absolutely horrible IMO about wanting to do everything the "Debian way". Config files are stuck where Debian wants them, special Debian config tools, etc. This is fine if you're only running GNU software that can be installed via apt-get, but I'd never consider Debian for a production environment. If I were to push any non-standard distro, it'd be Slackware simply because it just works 90% of the time - everything is standard and everything is as basic as possible. Through in an update manager like Swaret and you're set.
That said, if I was using a commercial app and getting support relied on RH or SuSE, I'd be running RH or SuSE. Both are fine distributions, and being able to call support without being fed a "I'm sorry, we don't support your software environment" is worth it.
So you can like Debian all you want, but for your company's purpose, you'd be doing them a disservice by migrating them away from the distribution(s) supported by your software vendor.
I recently worked for an ISP/Consuting firm that used a lot of Debian. Every single experience I had with it was unpleasant, and I am not a Linux newbie. The installation/setup system is the most gawd-awful piece of sh*t I have ever had the misfortune of using. Upgrades are unpredictable because the lines between stable, testing, and bleeding edge versions are constantly blurred. Dependencies become a tangled mess because dselect gives no real clear indications before it just installs right over libraries other apps need. youhave to resort to using apt-get and upgrading individual pieces at a time. Case in point - we had to upgrade a Debian server at a client site (Putting Debian in as a server at a client site is a practice advised only for the most extreme of masochists). The server provided file services, DNS, PDC, print, and some web. It also was connected to a bank of modems through an internal card so laptop users could dial in. We were merely to install a RAID running on a PCI SATA card. We did approach it the smart way, by creating an identical machine in our lab and testing there. Well, 90 days later.. with a severely hacked 2.6 kernel, alpha code drivers, complete rebuild of every service, and hundreds upon hundreds of man hours.. it worked.. sort of. Install at the client site took 42 hours over a weekend with no sleep and several points that the client was literally screaming. Just to prove a point to my boss, I then took the testing system and installed Fedora Core 1 on it. In less than two hours I had every single piece working - and to be honest I was doing several other things at the same time. I understand the value of Debian and it's place in the Linux community. It is obviously the hackers distro of choice. it has many techical superiorities over other distros (great /etc setup). So I am not bashing Debian as a distro here. But I AM bashing it as a commercial tool. Debian has NO PLACE in a shop that needs to get things done.
Puritanism: The haunting fear that someone, somewhere may be happy.
Hahahaha - none of that crap was the distributions fault.
Don't expect your distro to wipe your ass for you everytime you goto potty.
You tell em Twitter!
So you think sydb will be okay when he busts out a good ol' 486 with 16MB of RAM and gets all of his mission critical services on it? I mean, shit, Linux runs great on any hardware you throw it at, right?
Man, I CAN'T BELIEVE you replaced IRIX with a POS like Linux.
You guys must be some sort of hacker amateurs. If you even so much as thought replacing any of my SGI servers with anything, you'd be practicing "would you like fries with that?", because you'd be needing it a few seconds thereafter.
What kind of a self respecting UNIX expert would even THINK about replacing IRIX with anything?
We're writing of the best UNIX that ever saw the light of day, on the most advanced hardware there is, and you bozos went and replaced it with -- DEBIAN? You should be dragged out on the street and beat until you're fit for 30 days in plaster casts at a traumatology ward.
Bozos, that's all there is to it. You're fit to be clowns, not IT personnel.
I run a number of Sun and HP-UX boxes, and while they're truly great, it would never even occur to me in my wildest dreams to go and replace any of my SGI servers or workstations running IRIX. Hell, I'm thrilled to pieces we even get to run it, let alone how good it is.
You disgust me.
So you think sydb will be okay when he busts out a good ol' 486 with 16MB of RAM and gets all of his mission critical services on it? I mean, shit, Linux runs great on any hardware you throw it at, right?
Right. Woody will do that well and such a machine could be used for light duty file service without a problem. I'd recommend at least 24 MB of RAM for Woody and 32 for Sarge. Given that any company has much better hardware lying around, sydb will have plenty of material for testing. Once performace is demonstrated on the waste machine, sydb will be able to dedicate better hardware.
Linux turns trash into a new computer.
Winblows turns a new computer into trash. It's funny how that junk won't run on either end of the hardware spectrum and only runs on it's limited hardware for a short period. All commercial software is like that to one extent or another, Winblows is just more obvious.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
Twitter, you're a petulant cock-gobbling sycophant to Linux Torvaldyos! Quit taking DP from ESR and RMS's feculent cocks and why don't you try to stop sucking quite so much? Get out of your parents' basement and see the real world - maybe then you'll see how pathetic you sound, with your neverending stream of bullshit about how Microsoft is stalking you. Wasn't it you who said that Microsoft believes your insane ranting is actually a threat to them, so they PAY PEOPLE to reply to you on Slashdot? No sir, I don't get any money. I do it for the love. Someone has to go up against your paranoid whining. So get back in your cage and shut the fuck up already.
Twitter, you're a petulant cock-gobbling sycophant to Linux Torvaldyos! Quit taking DP from ESR's and RMS's feculent cocks and why don't you try to stop sucking quite so much? Get out of your parents' basement and see the real world - maybe then you'll see how pathetic you sound, with your neverending stream of bullshit about how Microsoft is stalking you. Wasn't it you who said that Microsoft believes your insane ranting is actually a threat to them, so they PAY PEOPLE to reply to you on Slashdot? No sir, I don't get any money. I do it for the love. Someone has to go up against your paranoid whining. So get back in your cage and shut the fuck up already.