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Longhorn Will Have Ability to Ban External Storage Devices
slashdotbs writes "CNET is reporting that Microsoft will allow IT managers to block devices such as USB memory keys and - shockingly! - iPods. The article refers to 'the threat posed by digital storage devices'."
and - shockingly! - iPods.
Shockingly, michael, people use iPods to backup data! Companies don't want their employees leaving the premises with this data and checking through tens of thousands of bags is time consuming and expensive. Perhaps this would be different if iPods weren't easily able to be used for backing up data but that's just not the case.
According to the article this feature is available in XP SP2. See here for more information.
No, it's not some Microsoft conspiracy to end iTMS and the iPod.
They need to give IT people the ability to block IE, it's more dangerous than any removable storage device.
Companies struggle with protecting their confidential and proprietary information. Being able to to do this at a policy level will be a big help to a lot of security folks.
"I'd rather be a lightning rod than a seismometer." -Ken Kesey
Comment removed based on user account deletion
For many people, it's currently easier to walk out with a USB device full of files than it is to connect to yahoo mail and send them as attachments. (Proxies, transfer size limitations, etc.) This is a logical step, like removing floppy drives in the 1990s and then limiting their use with software with Microsoft security policies.
I was talking to the CIO of a major health organization who had commissioned his engineers to find a solution to the problem of people bringing in their USB flash drives. Since he's worried about patient privacy, there's the fear that somebody would be inside, stick in a USB drive, copy data and walk out.
I know - "but what if they use a notepad, dummy". Yes, there is that problem - but last time I checked, you can steal a ton more data via a USB drive than a piece of paper.
The engineers answer? Epoxy glue in the USB slots. Not the best choice.
So for places that have to deal with security, this is good for two reasons. First, it prevents people from taking data through alternate methods (USB/Firewire drives). Second, it lets people with those devices bring them into the lab.
Take the iPod example. If you're working in one of my secure labs, I might tell you "sorry - leave it outside". But with this technology, I can say "Sure - bring it in and listen to your tunes" with a reasonable level of surety that they're not to go copy data they shouldn't.
So from my mind, this is a Good Thing, and I'd like to see it on my OS X/Linux machines as well.
52 Weeks, 52 Religions with John Hummel
Seriously,
Just because you give IT administrators the power to lock down the computer doesn't mean that Aunt Sallie isn't going to be able to use her iPod.
Imagine you administer a huge corporate network and you've standardized on Longhorn. Now imaging that the single biggest threats your network has seen in the past have originated from customer service reps bringing files from home on their iPods and Thumbdrives. If I were an administrator, I would have no problem locking down those machines to eliminate that threat.
substitute iPod with samsung, sony, dell..
And the point is that MS is not the one who makes the decision about what devices to ban. It is the office manager. Who knows if the office manager himself might have an iPod?
I don't own an iPod, but I imagine it's just a plain ol' USB storage device when plugged in. As such, it's as much of a security risk as any other, similar device.
We've all been slagging off MS for years now for their attitude to security; no point in whining now when they get it right, just cos you can't play music through your desktop speakers.
BTW: cool link on that page. Well, not cool, but I like the headline: Allchin: Don't call it 'Shorthorn'
Uhm...
If users didn't have rights to do "bad" things, then USB keys and iPods wouldn't be a concern.
Isn't this exactly what they are doing? Giving admins the ability to take away unnecessary rights from the user?
Our IT folks have locked down our Unix Workstations from mounting most media. These devices especially mp3 player that act like drives cause our semi-technical security to freak.
It will help windows make inroads into classified environments.
(some feel that store bought "music" media should labeled to its security level, except cd burners can't burn store bought music cds.)
Why is this a bad thing? It just gives more choices for security. Now if a sysadmin blocked these ports they better have an alternative to getting files off the machine (if files need to be copied somtimes...) Also, anyone know how the blocking is done? Can it be on a per device basis, or just all external storage devices?
-You're only as clean as your towel.
Case in point. A company has proprietary and confidential information that you, as their employee, have access to (without having admin privs). The company wishes to restrict your ability to make copies and potentially misuse (i.e., steal) that information.
I fail to see what administrator priveleges have to do with this.
"I'd rather be a lightning rod than a seismometer." -Ken Kesey
You can train a horse to stay in the barn, but it's far more effective to close the doors as well.
Some companies work with "trade secrets."
Some companies work with YOUR "private information."
Some companies work with your country's "military profile."
I think it's perfectly appropriate to empower the IT department to set forth a flexible and strategic policy of which devices are interoperable, and which devices are not.
[
and another operating system using a different way to control access to devices is inherently wrong?
$ mount /dev/sda1 /mnt
mount: only root can do that
***Quis custodiet ipsos custodes***
Windows98, or NT or 2000 or XP-Home _not_ having that ability is inherently wrong.
Just blob it into the USB ports on the motherboard and be done with it. It stops "boot Knoppix and save it to your USB key" approaches, too.
This is not a big deal folks. My spouse works for a financial institution and they block access to Internet based email (e.g. GMail, Yahoo, etc). My current employer blocks ftp access to the outside world. My last employer didn't allow us to bring our cell phones or pagers into the secure computer labs. The computer you use at work is not yours and you can't do with it as you wish. This may be frustrating for us techies but it is the truth. Remember folks that this is intended to be used by corporate users and NOT for home users. This is just a natural progression of companies wanting to make sure that employees don't run off with data that they are not supposed to. Anyone else remember this fiasco?
OS X, Linux, Tivo, Amiga, my fascination with cult-like technologies would intrigue any psychiatrist.
Don't they mean the threat of _third party_ storage devices? :-)
- Kevin
The less confident you are, the more serious you have to act.
Wasn't trying to imply that the link wasn't informative, merely that the article already made mention of what was presented as new info.
I'm mostly frustrated at people not making an effort to read non-slashdotted articles & then half the comments are useless because they don't understand the situation. Case in point is the UTD WiFi article earlier today.
What MS is doingis making it harder to steal, not impossible. One continues to raise the bar of difficulty until one attains a level of acceptable risk. This makes it easier to raise the bar.
"I'd rather be a lightning rod than a seismometer." -Ken Kesey
but all can be undone with 30 seconds and enough balls to open your case.
The average user wouldn't know where to start. Sure, you or I could open the case and reset the CMOS but would you really consider doing that at work? My job is more important than listening to music or taking data home. Security, physical and electronic, are not foolproof. Any system has a weakness.
Any company that needs to worry about file copying to the extent that they will lock out USB storage devices should already have mechanisms in place to prevent or restrict alternate O/S booting - and more importantly, the policies to fire your rogue ass should you choose to circumvent them.
Why would the users at your work be physically near a server to put a USB key in?
Because I'll be uploading that 20 GB Database to my offsite server without IT Noticing, or whistling the entire thing to my accomplice over the phone with my Captain Crunch whistle.
Fucking idiot.
What this *is* about is just one more "feature" that M$ is putting into their offering that UNIX/Linux/Et. AL. have had forever.
When you start diluting the issue talking about the conspiracy mumbo-jumbo, and fascist *admins, and what have you, you really are helping M$ along...
The only rational answer to an announcement like this is:
"Talk minus action equals nothing" - Joey Shithead, D.O.A.
"Talk minus action equals
If they can read them, then they can upload them somewhere else. They don't NEED an iPod or USB key. Kapesh?
if you are working in such a place that doesn't want you taking files out on USB devices, what makes you think you have access to upload them outside of their network, or access to email them out into the wild?
The dedicated can always do something to circumvent. This "solution" by MS is either a small part of a larger set of security checks or for detering the quick steal. I don't see it as a "hack" to fix a broken OS at all.
Tut-tut. If you are going to come down on MS over this option, don't distort the issue. MS would love to have more fancy shmancy hipster customers, vis. MSN music store. The option isn't less useful, it is more useful; especially to IT administrators looking for a greater degree of control over their users' digital schpincters. If you are going to flame MS, it should be over the extension of control they can exert over users, not some kind of social pogrom against whomever you are concerned with. And, as it has already been pointed out, there have been tools around to do this for some time.
Actually, all the admin has to do now (in Win 2k or Win XP) is change the setting for "Allow users to manage devices" and the users can't add devices, even USB devices, without admin priviledges. This sounds like a more pointed approach, so you can add/remove other things, but not USB keys.
In the USA, we like stuff watered down, like beer, television, and freedom.
...at least on the part of Microsoft. Microsoft isn't trying to keep you from using USB drives or iPods, silly. You'll be able to use them by default. It simply gives the system administrator the ability to control the computer by giving them the *option* to disable these features.
There are a lot of organizations that don't want people plugging in USB storage devices and walking off with their critical, sensitive data. This gives them the ability to make their computers more secure, so less scrupulous people won't walk away with data.
I would think that on a site full of Linux people, there would actually be celebration about having more control over your computer. I think Microsoft should be commended on this one.
This paranoia over USB flash drives and iPods just shows how uninformed, uneducated and like lemmings general IT personnel are.
How is an iPod or a USB flash drive any different than a floppy disk? Or a ZIP disk? or CD-RW?
In the past, most CPUs have had some form of writable removable media drive such as a floppy, zip disk, ls120, etc. USB is the new form of that. So why the panic?
Job security? After all, network security is the new black. Or is it paranoia over USB flash drives and iPods that are the new black?
All locking out these devices does it make it inconvenient for people to do their job. No more storing that Powerpoint presentation on a USB drive and plugging it into the meeting room projector, you'll have to bring the whole computer.
And if someone REALLY wanted to steal corporate data, they'd remove the hard drive, take it home, copy it, and bring it back.
Good point! But now there is a way of limiting their access to the sensitive information. So now less trust is required to do the same job which makes it easier to find someone to do it.
It sounds like you're against it but from your post I can only figure why this is a good thing.
As usual, Microsoft continues to push the blame elsewhere instead of fixing their damn OS!
I thought this was a change to their OS? You wouldn't call this a fix then?
People act like they will no longer be able to use their iPod at work, but all you need to do is load it up with a few gigs of mp3 at home and plug it into the power connector under the desk or use the battery. Anyone listening to music through speakers at work will quickly be beaten to death by their co-workers anyway (Hell, you'll be beaten for just enabling system sounds 'round here...)
I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?
Case locks will prevent that, My $1000 eMachines Desktop has a loop to lock the case on with a padlock, and if someone is willing to break out a hack saw to steal data the best bet is probably going to be calling security and having them physically removed from the building.
Snowden and Manning are heroes.
If you want to steal a file this is no more difficult than doing an https POST to a web server. Pretty hard to block and pretty hard to detect.
The difference between Canada and the USA is that in Canada healthcare is a right and gun ownership is a privilege.
Can Windows also prevent me from booting a Knoppix CD to copy files to my USB device?
Those who would give up liberty in exchange for security and DRM should switch to Microsoft Palladium!
But you're missing the fact that these schemes don't work for folks that know what they're doing, which is who you are trying to control.
Everyone else, i.e. the people that are just trying to get their work done, are the ones impacted by these efforts.
USB storage devices may be a closeable hole. Are you going to close these too:
1. The Internet. Companies try. But if you can make a web request, send an email, etc. you can send data out of the company, very efficiently. Even the most byzantine "Great Firewall of Company X" leaves this door wide open. They may put a proxy, etc. That doesn't close the hole.
In fact, anyone worth their salt can create an encrypted VPN over any two way channel you give them.
2. The serial port, say connected to a cell phone, or a laptop.
3. The Parallel port. Laplink cable and a laptop, or maybe a parallel connected MP3 player (old models available for $5-$30 on ebay).
4. The ethernet port. Seriously, have you seen a computer that didn't allow connections to other machines on unpriveleged sockets? The Rio Karma comes to mind as something you could hook up there.
5. Floppy disk drive
6. CD-ROM burner. Typically easily available on every corporate network I've seen.
7. USB port on other protocols than "Storage," like say the simple USB peer-to-peer network cables.
8. Photons emitted by the monitors convey information which may be written down or relayed over a telephone or photographsed with a camera
9. Directly connected, and network printers. If you really want to, you can just print it out, and likely you could print a heck of a lot of info reduced down so small that you could shove the piece of paper in your nose and blow it up later to a readable size.
Given all of this, I'd say it is pointless to try to close all the holes without a ground up redesign of how operating system security works, and even then, there are ways around it. Neither Microsoft nor industry is going there any time soon, so why get in the way of folks just trying to get their work done if the problem isn't really solved?
-- John.
No, I think that if you are going to solve a problem you need to make a serious, comprehensive attempt to solve it.
This is just one facet of the problem. Patching this whole is just to give the unknowledgeable a false sense of security. And that is more dangerous than leaving them worried, which might prompt more serious consideration.
Credit card information can be pretty well locked down. It is normally restricted to one machine, and that machine is restricted to a certain set of users. It should be stored encrypted, and only some folks should have the keys.
Disabling USB storage devices on such a machine won't help if you don't trust the employee that has access. In fact that is probably the real issue; trying to let technology replace taking real responsibility for knowing and monitoring your employees. People steal data, and you need to know that your people aren't going to steal it. It's more of a human problem than a technical one.
Do not order computers with external device access.
Alternatively:
1)Remove USB ports at the motherboard.
2)Do not install floppy or zip drives.
3)Do not install CDR/DVRs.
4)Remove all legacy serial and parallel ports.
Now just how you will get any work done is another matter.
"Rocky Rococo, at your cervix!"
Bottom line: There is absolutely no point in banning removable media access if I have a dedicated internet access already! A person who really wants to steal company data, will always find a way. So why prevent use of a beneficial technology?
rwx
Coderz 4 Life
Doors are useless. You're missing the fact that these don't work for folks that know what they're doing, which is who you're trying to control. Everyone else, i.e. the people that are just trying to get in and out of their house are the ones impacted by these doors.
Doorways may be a closeable hole. Are you going to close these too:
1. The windows. People try. But if you can throw a rock, brick, or wield a baseball bat, you can get through a window. You may use double-plated glass, etc. That doesn't close the "hole".
In fact, anyone worth their salt can break a window and go through it.
2. The chimney, say accessed via a ladder or grappling hook.
3. The skylight. Roof access is attainable via ladder or nearby trees if so inclined.
4. The crawl space. You could cut holes up through the bottom all day an nobody would see you.
Given all of this, I'd say it's pointless to try to close all the holes without a ground up redesign of how houses work, and even then, there are ways around it.
In conclusion, I think doors are pointless. They don't keep anyone out that really wants in. For that matter, windows and walls should also be done away with. I see no point in closing off what access we can. It's better just to let those who want access have as easy and fast a go at it as possible.
3/4 of the posts I've read are blasting MS for this. Why? Did you people even RTF extract?
MS is not banning you from using these devices. It is setting up a way to ban them. You decided to set it up or not. This is a way for companies to lock down their networks a litle more. This isn't an abuse against you. We're talking about machines you don't own here...property of the corperation you work for...
Geez. Plus, doesn't Linux already let you do this? So, why doesn't linux get flack for this?
Let's be fair people. Just cuz MS is doing it, doesn't mean it is evil.
-Mark
Dovie'andi se tovya sagain.
This isn't so bad - it might mean companies don't have to ban these devices outright if they have a way of preventing them from interfacing with their network. Implementation issues aside, I'd rather listen to music at work with my DAP, even if I can't hook it up to my workstation, than have to sit all day listening to the hum of fans blowing, the beeps from detected bit errors, inane colleague conversation and random cellphone activity.
A more simple alternative? Disable it in BIOS.
"On a scale from 1 to 10, people are stupid"
How about crappy stuff coming IN?
As in trojans, etc getting onto the network because some doofus thought it would be cute to use his ipod as a storage device between home and work...
Just because you wish that employees be treated as automatons with no ability to make intelligent choices doesn't mean you should.
A USB drive is not a gun. And I don't think guns have much utility in the typical workplace...
If you want employees to be effective and efficient they need to be empowered to do their work. Putting in artificial roadblocks is just red tape. You need to justify that policies will do what you want them to do. Otherwise, they just get in the way of good people trying to do their work.
If they are the small percentage with bad intent, actually looking to do damage, you're fighting a lost cause. Managers need to know, monitor, and demand that policy be followed. An important aspect of that is not making pointless policies that don't solve a real problem.
Actually, we don't use any USB devices on our network, all resources are TCP/IP over ethernet, so if I was concerned, I could just disable USB in the BIOS, and set a password to enter BIOS setup.
Of course, they can still pop in a Knoppix CD, mount the hard drive as RW, then copy files from another CD to the hard drive. Or just mount the hard drive as RO and then copy the companies files to any website via sftp, or burn them to disk.
For that matter, you CAN boot into DOS and read/write to a NTFS partition with easy to find utilities that fit on a floppy or a bootable CD. I have one of these for testing. Even in DOS, there are lots of things you can do to steal info.
So I could remove all floppies, all CDROMs, disable USB and set a password for BIOS (and put a physical lock on the case) to protect the system. Of course, this would not stop them from finding a way to repartition the drive and install a copy of Debian via ftp for dual booting, unless I had the firewall locked down so tight that the Net was useless. Then again, that wouldn't stop them from get 0wned by a trojan from visiting a rogue site.
The point is that no matter what you do, you have to have SOME trust in the users, because I can ALWAYS get around any security you put in place if I try hard enough. Usually, I would not have to try that hard.
Tequila: It's not just for breakfast anymore!