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Space Station Dogged By Oxygen Problems

Posted by CowboyNeal on from the room-to-breathe dept.

Alien54 writes "All of the Russian made Elektron oxygen generators on the International Space Station have failed. The three Elektron units on board the space station are the last of their kind. The company that manufactured them has gone out of business, and the engineer who almost single-handedly made the final adjustments of flight units died several years ago. Reportedly he retained some 'trade secret' about the final adjustments of the devices -- and it died with him. But NASA is not alarmed."

58 comments

  1. Later in the news... by M1FCJ · · Score: 3, Funny

    Two astronauts do the kiss of life, transferring oxygen between each other because American astronaut won't let the oxygen cylinder go.

    1. Re:Later in the news... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What sort of a pathetic escalation attempt is that? The headline is already about dogging in outer space, and want to bring up kissing?.

  2. Temporary fix by Black+Parrot · · Score: 5, Funny


    If we could trap all the hot air from the presidential campaign in a big balloon and release it just as the ISS went by, maybe they could catch it and use it to keep the station going for a few more weeks.

    --
    Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
    1. Re:Temporary fix by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      a few more weeks? there's way more than a few weeks worth...

    2. Re:Temporary fix by LastToKnow · · Score: 4, Funny

      You're suggesting that people actually live off that stuff? I'm sure most people would rather suffocate.

    3. Re: Temporary fix by Black+Parrot · · Score: 1


      > You're suggesting that people actually live off that stuff? I'm sure most people would rather suffocate.

      That's the beauty of it: run it through the centrifuge and you end up with a little bit of warm air, several new fantasies for the holodeck, and a whole lot of fertilizer for the hydroponics module.

      --
      Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
  3. Pulic domain enforcement by Jesrad · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The company that manufactured them has gone out of business, and the engineer who almost single-handedly made the final adjustments of flight units died several years ago. Reportedly he retained some 'trade secret' about the final adjustments of the devices -- and it died with him.

    And THIS is why there should be public domain repositories actively developped by governments, possibly along with mandatory escrow clauses for failed companies' IP. They would collect and index works that fall in the public domain ("This land is your land" anyone ?) as soon as possible, and maybe even buy exclusive rights of dying proprietary technology to make them open standards forever. I'm pretty sure this sort of service could even be profitable.

    Private companies develop their own pool of patents and trademarks, why not the general public, too ?

    --
    Maybe we deserve this world ?
    1. Re:Pulic domain enforcement by David+McBride · · Score: 2, Interesting

      http://www.archive.org/

      "The Internet Archive is building a digital library of Internet sites and other cultural artifacts in digital form. Like a paper library, we provide free access to researchers, historians, scholars, and the general public."

    2. Re:Pulic domain enforcement by shpoffo · · Score: 1

      And THIS is why there should be public domain repositories actively developped by governments, possibly along with mandatory escrow clauses for failed companies' IP. They would collect and index works that fall in the public domain ("This land is your land" anyone ?) as soon as possible, and maybe even buy exclusive rights of dying proprietary technology to make them open standards forever.

      Perhaps you've never worked around a specialist like this who oversees such information. I've worked with plastics compunders - so I have. I'd consider the level of awareness in these cases to go beyond "trade secret" and on to more a more obscure level of artisan awareness.

      Case in point, some of the plastics gurus I worked around would know complex details about the melt (the termal dynamics involved in forming a run of plastic) by taking a bead and BITING ON IT. No device that anyone has invented yet can determine as much about what happened "in flow" as a human can through their own developed senses.

      So here's the question to those that would like melt details like this in the public domain: how do we document it? Since the information is such an oral/haptic/experiential tradition, how do we teach it outside of Lineage of the Art? By the time we can quantify it we won't be in situations like the one this article is about.

      Once we can answer that I'll then ask the sociological and corporate trade secret questions like: Why should such artisans convey that knowledge before their time since it is one of the indellible job securities they have? Why should a company release taht info before it's closure since those kinds finesse details are what gives them a competative edge?

      .
      -shpoffo

  4. Alternatives by wetlettuce · · Score: 3, Interesting

    It seems to me that the actual process is pretty simple to actually produce the oxygen (Battery across two metal plates dipped in water, oxygen bubbles from one, hydrogen from the other - more info). Granted you have to ensure the quality of the supply and get rid of the hydrogen but surely this isn't beyond the expertise of NASA. They have known for years that there no expertise in fixing these units. Why have they not been designing and building replacements?

    1. Re:Alternatives by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It seems to me that the actual process is pretty simple to actually produce the oxygen (Battery across two metal plates dipped in water

      There ain't no taps in space mate!

    2. Re:Alternatives by BusterB · · Score: 2, Interesting

      But help is on the way. ?Three completely redesigned units are currently in production,? a NASA source said. The new devices will not use the liquid-gel electrolyte system that has led to all previous units eventually breaking down. Instead, they will rely on a solid polymer electrolyte.

      Delivery of the first of these units is expected ?in March or April of 2005?, the source continued. How fast they really can be completed, tested and flight-qualified remains an open question in the severely underfunded Russian space program.

      In the longer term, NASA is examining the chance of speeding up a U.S.-built oxygen generator to have it available in four years, rather than the currently scheduled six years.

    3. Re:Alternatives by stevelinton · · Score: 2, Insightful

      In zero-gee the gasses don't bubble from the plates, they just sit there. This makes life much more complicated.

    4. Re:Alternatives by shaka999 · · Score: 1

      Really? That much more complicated?

      Wouldn't slow spinning the whole thing separate things out?

      --
      One should not theorize before one has data. -Sherlock Holmes-
    5. Re:Alternatives by stevelinton · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Ok. So now you have bearings and a motor. You have to run your oxygen, hydrogen and water hoses and power leads through the bearing somehow, and you need to make sure that the whole thing stays watertight even when it stops spinning and doesn't make too much noise.

      As the man from Pentagon said after their ballistic interceptor test failed again, "this is rocket science".

      I'm not saying it's impossible, just that it isn't simple.

    6. Re:Alternatives by WolfWithoutAClause · · Score: 2, Interesting
      Actually, the Russian gadget does that; more or less.

      So far as I can tell, they don't spin the gadget, they set up a vortex in the electrolyte, and that gives you a pressure gradient (essentially artificial gravity) that gives the bubbles an 'up'- in this case an 'in'. They then feed the oxygen into the cabin and dump the hydrogen overboard.

      --

      -WolfWithoutAClause

      "Gravity is only a theory, not a fact!"
    7. Re:Alternatives by davidag · · Score: 1

      I can't wait until plants can do the job of making oxygen instead of relying on machines.

    8. Re:Alternatives by Christopher+Thomas · · Score: 1

      I can't wait until plants can do the job of making oxygen instead of relying on machines.

      Why? Machines do it more efficiently and with far less mass overhead.

    9. Re:Alternatives by CompressedAir · · Score: 1

      As a matter of fact, my group here at JSC finished a Backup Oxygen Candle System (aka the BOCS) a few months ago. This could have provided the ISS with two more months of oxygen. We could then have flown additional Oxygen Candles to keep the ISS going until the US Oxygen Generation System is on-line.

      The Russians refused to admit that an Elektron failure was imminent, and so the BOCS was not manifested for 16P (That's the Progress mission that has just passed).

      So, long story short, NASA has been doing something about the Elektron. The Russians have chosen not to fly our replacement.

      NASA gets a lot of flack around here, much of it deserved. This is not one of those times. If you feel the need to Point Your Finger, don't point it at NASA.

    10. Re:Alternatives by wetlettuce · · Score: 1

      My group here at JSC finished a Backup Oxygen Candle System (aka the BOCS)

      The point about the Elektron is that it basically recycles water from the atmosphere and other water sources to provide oxgen. BOCS is not replacement for Elektron, its a band-aid until a new primary system can be put in place.

      NASA gets a lot of flack around here...

      It does and I'm sure the Russians should take the blame too. But the fact is there are people in a spacecraft with a limited oxygen supply, all the primary oxygen generation systems have failed and that shouldn't happen, ever.

    11. Re:Alternatives by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      aren't candle type units the ones that caused that nasty fire on Mir and are thus avoided whenever possible now?

    12. Re:Alternatives by CompressedAir · · Score: 1

      BOCS is not replacement for Elektron, its a band-aid until a new primary system can be put in place.

      Right. I guess I should have been more clear. I meant BOCS could keep the station going until the Shuttle returns to flight, giving us the upmass ability to replace the Elektron.

    13. Re:Alternatives by CompressedAir · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Yes indeed they are, and that was a major factor in the design of the BOCS.

      The Mir Oxygen Candles used a powered fan to disipate the heat produced by the reaction. When the fan failed, the candle soon burned through its housing, causing the fire.

      Our system uses all passive cooling. The air flow that cools the candle is pulled through the Venturii housing by the oxygen expelled by the Candle. This also has the benefit of mixing the oxygen with the cabin air, preventing a dangerous pocket of pure oxygen.

      It is really pretty neat, but I know I am biased.

    14. Re:Alternatives by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      News flash: the space shuttle will never return to flight.

    15. Re:Alternatives by wetlettuce · · Score: 1

      I meant BOCS could keep the station going until the Shuttle returns to flight, giving us the upmass ability to replace the Elektron.

      Cool, we good luck getting it in. :-)

    16. Re:Alternatives by Hadlock · · Score: 1

      Pressurized Gas moves towards a low pressure zone. Aka oxygen inside pressurized tank will move towards the cabin.

      --
      moox. for a new generation.
    17. Re:Alternatives by shaka999 · · Score: 1

      Ok, how about this.

      You still spin the thing to separate the gas out. On inner edge where the gas collects you have a gortex like membrian that will let the gas out but keep the water in.

      Now, you have the gas, H and O, in your ship. Make another H scrubber. I'll leave that activity up to the reader :).

      --
      One should not theorize before one has data. -Sherlock Holmes-
    18. Re:Alternatives by .milfox · · Score: 1

      Plants may be less efficient, but can be tasty and serve recycling functions as well. Multi-use versus single use.

    19. Re:Alternatives by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's interesting. I could easily envisage such a system working by convection if it were strong enough, where you know the hot air is going up. But with only gas generation to drive the movement since you're in space, it seems the produced gas would just as likely move towards the cooling input as it's proper output (which I assume has filters on it to boot).

  5. I started reading this story... by Omkar · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I started reading this story, and realized, when I clicked to RTFA, that I was up at 4:30AM, reading Slashdot, and clikcing through to read about some oxygen equipment failure that even NASA isn't worried about. Talk about exchanging sleep time for quality time.

  6. But NASA is not alarmed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    Of course not, plenty of oxygen down here.

  7. Talking out of my ass by SimianOverlord · · Score: 3, Funny

    It's obvious what the "trade secret" is. The final part of the hose had been held on with a piece of chewing gum, and it's now become too dried and brittle to hold it together.

    --
    Meine Schwester ist sehr, sehr reizvoll - Nietzsche
    1. Re:Talking out of my ass by shamus · · Score: 1

      Crivvens, you aren't suggesting that their orbit is decaying are you?

      --

      What's worse, ignorance or apathy? Who knows, and who cares.

  8. Push a random button by cL0h · · Score: 3, Funny

    Reportedly he retained some 'trade secret' about the final adjustments of the devices -- and it died with him.

    "Eenie meenie miney mo."
    click

    Nuclear meltdown averted!!

    --
    cL0h
  9. OSS. by iMMersE · · Score: 5, Funny

    See, this is what happens when you use ISS. You should have used OSS. You get free and open oxygen that way.

    --
    codegolf.com - smaller *is* better.
  10. Re:I started reading this story... then what? by MachDelta · · Score: 3, Insightful

    And then you replied to the freaking story?!

    You, sir, are officially addicted to slashdot.

    (C'mon in! Coffee is in the back, help yourself.)

  11. Submarines by Detritus · · Score: 2, Insightful

    How about modifying and installing some of the equipment used on nuclear submarines? I'd think that after decades of service and experience at sea, it would be reliable and inexpensive by NASA flight hardware standards.

    --
    Mea navis aericumbens anguillis abundat
    1. Re:Submarines by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Ok, lets just check the formula

      infinite water supply
      infinite power supply from a nuclear generator

      equals O and H2

      hummmm where the hell did those guys put the water supply in space ???

      The russian device is very very simple but almost perfect in efficiency, and there lies the secret, MIR used those generators for years without problems... keep it simple and stupid but very tricky to tune :)

    2. Re:Submarines by Catmeat · · Score: 1

      It it actually works - for example, how do you go about seperating the oxygen from the water and making sure there's no hydrogen in it in zero-G. I've no idea. But I'm willing to bet it's neither easy nor inexpensive.

    3. Re:Submarines by Detritus · · Score: 1

      I found a well-written tutorial (PDF file) from the Naval Academy on the subject of submarine air treatment. A spacecraft would have to deal with the same problems, even though the corrective measures might be different.

      --
      Mea navis aericumbens anguillis abundat
    4. Re:Submarines by confused+one · · Score: 1
      Since someone screwed up and modded this "Insightful"...

      hummmm where the hell did those guys put the water supply in space ???

      Where the hell do you think they get their O2 now? Do you think they magically create it from the rarified gases outside? No, they use water.

      Power isn't a problem either. They should have a significant amount available from the solar collectors, allocated just for this purpose.

    5. Re:Submarines by Carnildo · · Score: 1

      A submarine can take advantage of gravity. A spaceship can't.

      --
      "They redundantly repeated themselves over and over again incessantly without end ad infinitum" -- ibid.
    6. Re:Submarines by rasz · · Score: 1

      guess what happends when you start to rotate a space station ...

      --
      Go grab those torrents.
    7. Re:Submarines by Vellmont · · Score: 1

      That's actually quite easy and as someone else pointed out any third grader can do it. Take two electrodes and connect them to a low voltage source (a car battery is plenty). Put the electrodes in water and add some salt. Hydrogen will be generated at the - electrode, and oxygen will be generated at the + electrode. To collect the gasses put a test tube around each electrode.

      As far as making sure there's no hydrogen on the oxygen side, seperate the two electrodes and water with some kind of electrical conductor (stainless steal will prevent corrosion).

      The harder part is doing it without gravity. One way to do this would be to just create an artificial gravity by spinning the water, or the entire apparatus.

      Obviously this isn't a reliable system intended for a space station, but the general principles involved are very very simple. There's really no reason it should take 4 or 6 years to develop a new system to do this.

      --
      AccountKiller
    8. Re:Submarines by Carnildo · · Score: 1

      All sorts of mechanical problems. Parts of the station will need to not rotate, and if you've never tried to make a rotating joint airtight, you're in for some fun.

      --
      "They redundantly repeated themselves over and over again incessantly without end ad infinitum" -- ibid.
  12. Actually the crew isnt worried either about oxygen by imr · · Score: 2, Funny

    They have received their doom3 copy a few weeks ago and have locked themselves in various places of the station since. Oxygen is the least of their terror right now, but the banging on the walls of the station on the other hand....

  13. 'Trade Secrets' by Catmeat · · Score: 3, Informative
    and the engineer who almost single-handedly made the final adjustments of flight units died several years ago. Reportedly he retained some 'trade secret' about the final adjustments of the devices -- and it died with him. But NASA is not alarmed.

    Reportedly, this is quite common. NASA people working with their Russian counterparts have discovered that, from institutions down to individuals, they hand over technical information about as readily as a tiger hands over its teeth. It's just a simple way for them to gurantee job security but it does make life complicated when you're building a space station out of components constructed in both countries.

    To find out more about the whole mess, I recommend Star-crossed Orbits: Inside the U.S.-Russian Space Alliance by James Oberg

  14. Re:Abandon the ISS NOW by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    it's called "russian federation"

  15. We have them already. by infernalC · · Score: 2, Funny

    They are public libraries.

    1. Re:We have them already. by Jesrad · · Score: 1

      The public libraries are public domain repositories ? So I can go and grab a copy of any book or CD there, and use that in commercial or free projects destined to be publicised ?

      --
      Maybe we deserve this world ?
    2. Re:We have them already. by infernalC · · Score: 1

      Yes, you can, if the particular item is in the public domain. Libraries inventory media both encumbered by copyright and unencumbered (public domain).

  16. obligatory if late by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    In Soviet Russia, Oxygen Generates You!

  17. 3rd grade science by aminorex · · Score: 2, Insightful

    It's going to take 4 to 6 years to produce and
    deliver the u.s. built replacement for the elektron
    systems, according to the article.

    A smart third grader can make an oxygen generator
    with a battery, wire, salt and electrodes in 5
    minutes. For the 0g environment, we'll add a
    slow centrifuge.

    Remind me not to pay my taxes if this is the
    crap I get for it.

    --
    -I like my women like I like my tea: green-
    1. Re:3rd grade science by Teancum · · Score: 1

      Several things come to mind here, but it appears as though you don't know much about practical engineering, even for something simple like trying to design a light switch on the ISS (It's just a metal bar you place between two pieces of copper, right?)

      The trick in this case is that you would have to be able to interface with all of the other equipment that the old equipment was designed for, keep the design as compact as possible, and since you are trying to get this installed in a zero-g environment you need to make sure that the installation can happen fairly easily and not take up too much time of the astronauts up there in the ISS. I would dare you to design a toothbrush holder for those requirements, keeping in mind that you also have to do outgassing testing of the materials used (it is going into space), see that they don't corrode when in contact with substances that will be near the said device or object, and make sure that you don't have to replace it too often as supply ships don't come that often and are very expensive to ship even the most simple things.

      BTW, most of what I've described could also be applied to the requirements for a late 19th Century coaling station where just about everything had to be shipped thousands of miles and took several months to get there. Weight requirements weren't as big of a deal as in spaceflight, but durability and the need to make due with whatever was at hand or you would litterally die was an issue. And taxpayers certainly paid a rather good price tag on those stations in the past.