Slashdot Mirror


Exceptional Seeing At Dome C in Antarctica

Michael Ashley writes "A paper published in Nature today reports on the exceptional astronomical seeing conditions at Dome C (Coral link) in Antarctica. Obtaining the data posed some significant technological challenges, given that Dome C is uninhabited over winter. The experiment was controlled by a PC/104 computer system that had to survive temperatures down to -85C, and supervise the generation of its own electricity using a jet-fuel powered stirling engine. The computer, running Linux, communicated with the outside world using an Iridium phone. The results are also covered in New Scientist, and the Sydney Morning Herald. Disclaimer: I'm a co-author."

25 of 252 comments (clear)

  1. Three cheers for global pollution by nlawalker · · Score: 5, Funny

    Looks like making the ozone hole actually accomplished something.

    1. Re:Three cheers for global pollution by garcia · · Score: 4, Funny

      They claim it's great in the winter when the sun is below the horizon. The reason they claim they can't see anything in the summer is because they are all covering their faces (see here for an example of what I mean!

      This poor motherfucker is the one that is actually there in the Winter (when they claim the telescope is controlled via sat. phone). Notice how *HE* can see!

      The other guys are such wimps. Fur lined face masks and goggles. Sheesh!

  2. Surviving temps down to -85??? by grape+jelly · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The experiment was controlled by a PC/104 computer system that had to survive temperatures down to -85C...

    Wait a sec! =-P Computing equipment *loves* cold, as long as you don't have to worry about condensation. =-P In other words, it's not hard to design a system that can survive -85C. Just do a google search for Liquid nitrogen cooling. Yay for overclocking fiends who make it so you don't even need to mention computing hardware. ;-)

    btw, there's a tom's hardware link on the results page. Check it out. There's a pic of a CPU mount covered in frost. That *can't* be good! =-P

    1. Re:Surviving temps down to -85??? by Homology · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Large fluctations in temperature can be quite bad for hardware : it will contract and expand, and thus inducing stresses on the computer. And relability is a big factor : You can't just fly down there to replace broken parts.

    2. Re:Surviving temps down to -85??? by Waffle+Iron · · Score: 5, Informative
      When you do a circuit design, you take into account both maximum and minimum delay paths. These are usually spec'd over a recommended operating temperature range, which most likely doesn't get quite that cold.

      While colder can often mean faster, sometimes a signal requires some minimum delay to work correctly. This is especially true of the minimum hold times required on inputs after a clock transition. So it's possible that some signal might go out of spec if you drop the temperature too far. It only takes a single bad signal to hose the whole system.

      Unlike just dropping the temperature of the CPU chip which will have relatively uniform characteristics, getting the whole system cold might cause a wider range of timing variations. Moreover, even dropping the external heat sink of a CPU to extreme cold doesn't mean the chip itself is in the cryogenic range. They usually run at temps well above the bulk of the heatsink.

    3. Re:Surviving temps down to -85??? by moonbender · · Score: 4, Interesting
      Read the part on the events of May 17th 2004. This has got to be the coolest troubleshooting situation I've ever heard of. An extract (do read the linked paragraphs for the full story!):
      The PC/104 computer was also on the RS-485 bus, and we reasoned that by rewriting the Linux device driver (which we had written in the first place, so we knew what we were doing) we could make the computer impersonate the control panel, and convince the engine that it should keep running. Fortunately, we had a snapshot of the communication traffic between the engine and the control panel from earlier testing in the lab with the manufacturer's MSDOS-based software. But with no hardware available to test our code, we had to modify the driver, send patches over the 2400 baud Iridium link, and rmmod/insmod the driver to try to restart the engine.
      And to think I get nervous flashing a computers CMOS...
      --
      Switch back to Slashdot's D1 system.
    4. Re:Surviving temps down to -85??? by mpoulton · · Score: 4, Informative

      Computing equipment *loves* cold, as long as you don't have to worry about condensation.

      Ah, not so! *processor cores* love cold, not electronics in general. Specifically, electrolytic capacitors freeze and fail below their rated temperature, and it's really tough to find any that are rated to temps that low. Also, because of resistance, capacitance, and crystal frequency value changes at low temps, oscillators and filters tend not to behave. This doesn't even consider the issue of thermal expansion coefficient differences causing BGA chips to pop off the circuit boards! Making anything electronic operate in that environment is highly non-trivial.

      --
      I am a geek attorney, but not your geek attorney unless you've already retained me. This is not legal advice.
  3. Screen shot of web page on mobile phone by kbahey · · Score: 4, Informative

    Look at this photo. It is the author's Kyocera mobile phone with a web page showing the temperatures, memory usage and free disk space. Says battery temperature is -34.5 (is that C or F?)

    1. Re:Screen shot of web page on mobile phone by Speare · · Score: 4, Insightful
      Nevermind that the others have pointed out the "C" in the image. At -40, the scales equate. That is, -40C == -40F. So it almost doesn't matter which scale we're discussing.

      google: -40 fahrenheit in celsius

      --
      [ .sig file not found ]
  4. Seeing Conditions by ottergoose · · Score: 5, Informative

    What is "seeing"?

    "Seeing" is a term that astronomers use to quantify the turbulence in the atmosphere and how it affects observations from the ground. The stars appear to twinkle because of the effect of this turbulence. In conditions of bad seeing, the stars appear to twinkle vigorously, and the images that you take with your telescope are blurry. In conditions of good seeing, the stars appear more stable, and you can take very sharp images.


    You'd think they'd have a cooler word for that...

  5. It's a bird, it's a plane...No it's Tux by GillBates0 · · Score: 4, Funny
    The experiment was controlled by a PC/104 computer system that had to survive temperatures down to -85C...The computer, running Linux, communicated with the outside world using an Iridium phone.

    I would have to say Linux was the ideal choice in this case. Penguins are polar creatures. you know. I wonder how the Microsoft Rainbow-bee-man would've fared under such conditions.

    --
    An Indian-American Hindu committed to non-violent thought/speech/action alarmed by the global explosion of radical Islam
  6. Could have used an... by PhraudulentOne · · Score: 4, Funny

    Hell, all that they had to do was stick a new Geforce and an Athlon in there and she'd be warm as toast ;)

    --
    You create your own reality - Leave mine to me.
  7. Corrected Link by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

    The link that the submitter provided to himself doesn't work. The correct link is: Michael Ashley

  8. PC/104 Computers... by DiS[EnDeR] · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I work with Diamond Systems PC/104 computers everyday. These systems are robust and the specifications for operating environments are crucial to applications such as these. Their ability to operate in extreme conditions, temperature, vibration, make them fit for such roles.

    We've used PC/104 computers (running QNX 4.25) for everythign from Remote power stations, Fuel cells, even UAV's.

    --

    Harder.. Better.. Faster.. Stronger
  9. outta beew by Himring · · Score: 4, Funny

    Base camp: So how's it going there?
    Dome C: Weh, Biwwy daywed me to stiwck my tung to the waw. Oh, and we'we outta beew....

    --
    "All great things are simple & expressed in a single word: freedom, justice, honor, duty, mercy, hope." --Churchill
    1. Re:outta beew by Billy+the+Mountain · · Score: 4, Informative

      Dude, I used to live in Alaska. The solution to the tongue problem, at least according to the neighborhood experts, is to urinate on it until it gets unstuck.

      BTM

      --
      That was the turning point of my life--I went from negative zero to positive zero.
  10. Re:Someone has to ask ... by DiS[EnDeR] · · Score: 4, Informative

    A PC/104 is just a form factor. And provides standards for things such as environmental operating parameters.

    CPU boards usually have an intel clone processor MACH86 or VIA Athena.

    So they can run any OS your desktop can.

    --

    Harder.. Better.. Faster.. Stronger
  11. Re:Offtopic by Em+Adespoton · · Score: 4, Informative

    Just stick .nyud.net:8090 on the end of your domain name (before the /) and it'll grab the content and cache it -- any future queries will return their cache instead of downloading from the original page. The coral links also work like your web browser and update the content when it is out of date.

  12. But when needed small fast OS, they used MS DOS by notestein · · Score: 4, Interesting

    One experiment, ICECAM, relied entirely on a 5 kg pack of lithium thionyl chloride batteries. The batteries had to provide power for a year, so minimized the power consumption of the computer. The experiment only needed to take data every two hours, so we built a CMOS oscillator to power-up the computer for 30 seconds every two hours. We used MS-DOS 6.22 for the PC/104 computer since it boots quickly and was able to average 10 frames from the CCD camera and store them to CompactFlash disk.

  13. geography question by WormholeFiend · · Score: 4, Funny

    so, how far is the secret nazi base from Dome C?

  14. Warning for those in Antartica... by sgant · · Score: 4, Funny

    Stay away from the Norwegian camp....they dug up something in the ice and we've lost contact with them....

    Last we heard, one of their sled dogs were running this way with a helecopter following it....

    --

    "Leo Fender was in a 'state of grace' when he designed the Stratocaster." -- Paul Reed Smith
  15. Re:Iridium? Didn't they go bust? by Phat_Tony · · Score: 4, Insightful
    Iridium was the dumbest investment opportunity since a 3,000 Guilder Tulip bulb in 1624. The constellation cost $5 billion to construct. It was immediately obvious from the very outset to anyone who spent a little while playing around with the math that there would never be any way to make money from this. You could estimate any reasonable supply/demand curve and come up with a loss- from 1 phone at $5 billion apiece to 5 billion phones (about 1 per person on earth who can ho,d a phone) at $2,001 apiece (the phones cost about $2,000 to produce), there was no number in between where they could conceivably ever make money. In fact, there was no way they could do anything but lose billions.

    So they went bankrupt, and no one would buy the system. It was a textbook case of a colossal business failure, and no one would touch it with a 10-ft pole. The judge hated to rule that a $5 billion infrastructure system burn up in the atmosphere, and luckily, at the last minute, Dan Colussy stepped in with a $25 million bid- less than half a cent on the dollar of initial construction costs, and swept it up.

    Then what? The new Iridium Satellite LLC started cleanning up, which it's still doing. Very profitable. It turns out that, while it's impossible to recoup a $5 billion investment on a satellite phone system is impossible, recouping an investment 1/200 that size isn't so bad.

    --
    Can anyone tell me how to set my sig on Slashdot?
  16. Re:Mostly off topic by Billy+the+Mountain · · Score: 4, Funny

    I'd just go down there for a week, talk with people, and pass out resumes.

    --
    That was the turning point of my life--I went from negative zero to positive zero.
  17. Re:Someone has to ask ... by Voivod · · Score: 4, Informative

    The CPU is called the VIA C3 and the chipset is the VIA Eden. The "Athena" in your post refers to a Diamond Systems product name for the board which uses this CPU, not the name VIA calls their own CPU.

    The "Mach86" you're thinking of is the ZFMicro ZFx86 chip. They are battling National Semiconductor, who produced these CPUs under contract for ZFMicro until ZFMicro was no longer able to pay their bills. Intel is not involved at all.

    The other big PC/104 CPU vendors are Transmeta, STMicro (STPC), and AMD (Geode). Recently the Pentium 4-M have been popular for boards which don't need to support extended temperature.

    PC/104 rocks for applications like this. Disclaimer: I work for a PC/104 company. ;-)

  18. Really good war story by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting
    The last question in TFA:

    Can you tell us about the dramatic events of 17 May 2004?

    By 17 May 2004 the AASTINO had worked remotely for 100 days in 2004, and then something went wrong...

    The WhisperGen engine has a control panel connected to it using an RS-485 bus running on CAT-5 cable. The control panel contains a microprocessor, and the engine expects to communicate with it regularly (at least once a second). When this communication is interrupted, the engine shuts down and reboots its own microprocessor.

    Unfortunately, this is what happened on 17 May. - the engine went into a cycle of rebooting every 40 seconds. Once the engine has stopped, we had a ten hour window in which to try to restart it before the 200AH lead-acid batteries would lose too much capacity and become too cold for a restart (which requires 15A at 24V for about 15 minutes).

    During this period we worked feverishly to come up with a solution. Our first priority was to shut down all unnecessary power consumption in the AASTINO - we can do this via a series of Dallas one-wire switches which control power to all the subsystems. A call to the engine manufacturer came up with the suggestion that we wiggle the CAT-5 cable connection - we suspect they forgot that we were over 4000 km away from our engine!

    The PC/104 computer was also on the RS-485 bus, and we reasoned that by rewriting the Linux device driver (which we had written in the first place, so we knew what we were doing) we could make the computer impersonate the control panel, and convince the engine that it should keep running. Fortunately, we had a snapshot of the communication traffic between the engine and the control panel from earlier testing in the lab with the manufacturer's MSDOS-based software. But with no hardware available to test our code, we had to modify the driver, send patches over the 2400 baud Iridium link, and rmmod/insmod the driver to try to restart the engine.

    All the while, the internal temperature of the AASTINO was plumetting towards ambient, at about -60C. We first modified the driver to allow the link traffic to be analysed, and this confirmed the communication problem with the control panel. After several attempts at generating fake packets from the control panel, punctuated by breaks in the Iridium link and agonizing waits for the system to redial (it is dialout only, controlled by a crontab entry), we were unable to prevent the engine from rebooting.

    We watched helplessly as the battery temperatures sank below the minimum threshold for engine restart. Over the next 24 hours we received the occasional connection from the AASTINO computer, but that was all. We are now hoping that the solar panels will be able to recharge the batteries suffiently to re-establish communication before the Dome C station opens for the summer.