Slashdot Mirror


Saving Energy Without Derision

George Maschke writes "Saving Energy Without Derision (5 mb PDF) is a new (and free) e-book by former Sandia National Laboratories senior scientist Dr. Alan P. Zelicoff. This book is intended to be a real-world, no-nonsense, thoroughly documented collection of easy-to-implement recommendations to help the average thoughtful person to pick the 'low-hanging fruit' of conservation and renewable energy. The author is after the easy 75% of actions we can all take (but almost uniformly ignore) that most certainly make a difference in energy costs (after all that's what most people care about) and adjuring a bit of unnecessary adverse impact on the environment (which a few folks actually think is important beyond the mere dollar valuation). The author welcomes comments and intends to continuously update the book (consistent with readership interest) and address many new topics. For example, next on his list is an analysis of the economics and scientific basis of fuel-cell vehicles powered by hydrogen. (Bottom line, he maintains, is that it's a cruel hoax and energy disaster, and far less useful than, for example, heavy hybrid automobiles that get about 50 - 60 miles on an electric charge alone -- which accounts for more than 85% of driving in the US and elsewhere on a daily basis -- and which are available now.)"

68 of 698 comments (clear)

  1. 5 mb PDF? by Nova+Express · · Score: 4, Funny
    The Amazing Creskin predicts the number of Slashdotters who will post without having RTFM will reach an all-time high!

    --
    Lawrence Person (lawrencepersonh@gmailh.com (remove all "h"s to mail)

    http://www.lawrenceperson.com/

    1. Re:5 mb PDF? by apzelic · · Score: 5, Informative

      Yes, indeed when the "Slashdot effect" took over, the server where my website is hosted crashed. The server owner/host isn't very happy, but this is my mistake and I apologize to all of the MANY readers who want to download the book. If you can't connect (I have no idea how much longer it will be before the server is rebooted, and when it is, I may be forced to remove the book), just send me an e-mail and I'll send you a copy (and hope you'll find it useful enough to send a small voluntary donation of $5 or $10 so that I can continue to update it with useful science and new technologies). My e-mail: zalan8587@qwest.net

    2. Re:5 mb PDF? by Taladar · · Score: 3, Informative

      Why don't you use Bittorrent to distribute it before your email server crashes too?

    3. Re:5 mb PDF? by Willard+B.+Trophy · · Score: 5, Informative
      I'd be happy to forward anyone the file I just got from Al from Gmail: scruss is my addy there.

      Plus I've mirrored it here, with the author's permission: http://s108450040.onlinehome.us/savingenergy.pdf.z ip. Al asks that I should "let your mirror users know that substantive comments (that is, science based as opposed to political ranting) also welcomed."

  2. Re:No comments? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I can't comment because I can't download the fucking 5MB .pdf ...

    Why do people use PDFs when HTML works perfectly fine? Do you REALLY need to control the layout that much?

  3. HTML Link from Google by drgonzo59 · · Score: 4, Informative

    Might be outdated! HERE

  4. Start the invasions... by D-Cypell · · Score: 4, Funny

    With the increasing interest in hydrogen fuel cells it may be time for the 'coalition of the willing' to begin the inva^H^H^H^H liberation plans of those countries that possess surplus hydrogen reserves.

    It also might be time for a manned mision to the sun...

    1. Re:Start the invasions... by prichardson · · Score: 5, Informative

      Please tell me that was sarcasm.

      Fuel cells will not provide us with energy. They will only help store it. If we had the perfect battery (long life, close to completely efficient, no leakage, no memory, high output, quick recharge) then the electric car would become a lot more feasible. The electric car is a good thing because your power plant can burn oil and coal at around 80% efficiency. Your car burns gas at, IIRC, a meager 20%-40%. Also, this would allow new forms of electricity generation to not only affect your home, but also your car, trains, trucks, and planes.

      --
      Help I'm a rock.
    2. Re:Start the invasions... by egarland · · Score: 4, Insightful
      The electric car is a good thing because your power plant can burn oil and coal at around 80% efficiency. Your car burns gas at, IIRC, a meager 20%-40%.

      This is a common misconception but it's simply not true. The theoretical limit of efficiency is for an internal combustion engine like the one we use in our power plants is 35%. Internal combustion fossil fuel power plants operate at very near that theoretical limit but you have to factor in transmission loss, about 9%, which basically makes them equal to best-case car engine use (about 30%). The problem with today's cars is they often operate far from best-case (idling, downhill slopes, breaking, etc) bringing their efficiency down to 18-23%. This is why hybrid vehicles do so much better. They operate the engines much more intelligently and bring the efficiency up to about 30%. That means that an electric car powered by an fossil fuel power plant uses just about as much fuel as a hybrid car running on gasoline. This says nothing about pollution emissions which will be better from the power plant, but fuel use and CO2 emissions will be roughly the same.

      The only way electric/fuel cell based cars are actually a benefit to the environment is if they are powered by nuclear power plants or some other non-poluting technology. Fuel cells in cars won't solve anything by themselves.

      Good stats on fuel efficiency

      Second law of thermodynamics wrt. internal combustion

      --
      set softtabstop=4 shiftwidth=4 expandtab nocp worlddomination
    3. Re:Start the invasions... by egarland · · Score: 4, Insightful

      isn't a tad bit of a misstatement to call a nuclear power plant non-polluting?

      I stick by non-polluting. Taking radioactive material out of the ground and returning less radioactive material to safer places in the ground, is something I can't consider pollution. I believe it makes the environment just ever so slightly safer and better. The radioactive radon gas that constantly seeps up into the room I'm in now is caused by uranium breaking down in the bedrock below me. Take it out and put it in Yucca Mountain and I get less cancer.

      Everything anyone does has an impact on nature, right down to swatting mosquitoes. Just because it has an impact on the world, doesn't mean it is pollution. From what I understand, the mining of uranium ore is rough on the environment and could be considered pollution, but it's also my understanding that you could power the entire world for 20 years with what we already pulled out back in the post WW2/cold war era. Plus, mining coal is horrible for the environment, never mind the tons of mercury that comes out when you burn it that they are currently safely storing in the lungs of the general population not to mention fish and other wildlife everywhere. Overall, the switch to nuclear power would dramatically reduce the pollution created by generating power.

      Heat is another byproduct of nuclear power generation but it's also a byproduct of every other heat-engine based power technology and is rapidly dissipated with little effect on anything so I don't consider it pollution.

      for instance use a lot of chemicals in their manufaturing process more recent advances are allowing for organic solar panels but still a little pollution is generated

      I agree that solar power technology currently can't be considered non-polluting. Lots of people consider solar to be the ultimate in low-impact living. This is naive. These are the same people who live on giant plots of land lamenting the high-impact living of people in cities. If you look carefully at it, someone living in downtown Manhattan shares a tiny footprint of land with everyone who lives above and below them whereas the big house in the country disturbs vast expanses of land. If everyone in the United States had a 5 acre plot of land they'd take up almost every bit of land in the continental US (all the mountains, forest, farm land, all of it.) The plain truth is that the Seinfeld lifestyle is much more environmentally friendly than the Little House on the Prairie lifestyle. These same people tend to praise the native American's for their low-impact lifestyle. Each native American required the resources of huge expanses of land to support them. They had a profound impact on the environment but, because their way of life, they couldn't sustain enough population to make a big impact. If you look on a per-person impact basis, native American's were awfully hard on their environment.

      Just because it's quaint, simple, and peaceful doesn't mean it's low-impact or environmentally friendly. I'd reclassify most environmentalists as "my environment-ists" because what they really want is to have an environment that they can enjoy, play with and have fun in. They don't care that nuclear power is better for nature, their scared it's bad for them so they hate it.

      Right now, oil and coal cost much more than nuclear and pollute horribly yet they are still generating a majority of the world's power. This is silly. It's time to build a lot of nuclear power plants. Lets build them and buy us some time to generate good efficient non-polluting or low pollution methods of generating power that are economically more attractive than nuclear so eventually they shut down on their own because they cost too much.

      --
      set softtabstop=4 shiftwidth=4 expandtab nocp worlddomination
  5. So much for saving energy... by tliet · · Score: 3, Funny

    [insert obligatory joke about overheating server]

    1. Re:So much for saving energy... by porksoda · · Score: 3, Funny

      Jeez, when did the youth of today become so damn lazy?

      [insert obligatory joke about old people]

  6. HTML version! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative
  7. Good to see! by mprinkey · · Score: 4, Interesting

    There is a definite need for energy conservation ideas that can be directly supported with economic validation. So many "green" initiatives are driven solely by politics and have economics, and often even environmental impacts, that are questionable. We need more people installing compact flourescent lamps and water heater blankets...not $20,000 solar panel arrays. A healthy dose of common sense here could really make energy efficiency ideas more popular. Here's hoping it works.

    1. Re:Good to see! by blitziod · · Score: 3, Insightful

      You are making a critical error when you say that recycling at a higher cost is good for us. If it costs more in dollars, it costs more in energy to produce(earn) those dollars. Example if I have to work harder (more) to earn money to buy an electric car what about all the resources I use in the course of my job( electricity, raw materials etc)? Also what about the production of the car? What about the old car, will it still be driven?

      --
      The only way to bust a doper--is when you yourself become a smoker!
  8. The fundamental issue with Hydrogen... by Ricdude · · Score: 5, Interesting

    ...is that it isn't an energy *source*. You have to make hydrogen, either by splitting it out of water, or some hydrocarbon source (e.g. petroleum), then pressurize it to extremes in order to get any usable range out of it in an automobile. If hydrogen can be manufactured by renewable means (geothermal, for example, would work well in Iceland), then there is some benefit to it.

    However, if you use solar energy to create electricity to electrolyze water, and make hydrogen gas that way, you end up with less energy at the wheels of a car than you would just charging a battery from the same solar energy.

    So you have to ask yourself, who benefits from multi-billion dollars of investment into a Hydrogen energy infrastructure?

    --
    How's my programming? Call 1-800-DEV-NULL
    1. Re:The fundamental issue with Hydrogen... by mprinkey · · Score: 4, Interesting

      The key issue with hydrogen is that there is no good way to store it. It diffuses through everything, so leaks will always be an issue. Liquifying takes super cold temperatures and is very expensive. Compressed hydrogen needs to be a ~1000 psi to get a sufficiently high energy density...and that will make for one interesting car crash.

      The best solution for transportable, stable, environmentally friendly fuel is probably methane. Compressed natural gas vehicles are very common. We can make methane about as easily as we can make hydrogen or oil or even from coal, via gasification. All fuel cell manufactures are also looking at reforming mechanisms to make methane useful in fuel cells. As engineer who has worked on fuel cell technology for the last five years, I think it is pretty clear that for future of transportation applications of fuel cells...particularly hydrogen-only systems...is very bleak.

      Fuel cells will be used (eventually) in stationary power systems and very soon in portable electronics that will use liquid methanol as a fuel. Everything else is just a pipe dream, IMO.

    2. Re:The fundamental issue with Hydrogen... by Abcd1234 · · Score: 4, Informative

      Holy cripes, here we go again... why can't you people get it?

      it isn't an energy *source*

      Umm, that is the whole *point* of using hydrogen: to provide an efficient storage mechanism for energy, which can then be extracted cleanly using fuel cells, combustion, etc.

      And *why* do we want this? Because then we can generate large quantities of energy in central locations using methods not normally available to vehicles (hydroelectric, solar, wind), as well as benefiting from economies of scale with traditional technologies (traditional, large scale power plants are *far* more efficient than a standard internal combustion engine in a car).

      Moreover, centralized generation makes it easier to move to new generation technologies (geothermal, tidal, etc), and to upgrade existing plants (since you only have thousands of plants to upgrade, rather than hundreds of millions of cars).

      So, in the end, I'd say we all benefit from a multi-billion dollar investment in Hydrogen energy.

    3. Re:The fundamental issue with Hydrogen... by Phanatic1a · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Compressed hydrogen needs to be a ~1000 psi to get a sufficiently high energy density...and that will make for one interesting car crash.

      Ah, come on.

      Gasoline has an energy content of 45 megajoules per kilogram, or 56 MJ per liter. Energy density of hydrogen is about 11 kilojoules per liter.

      My car gets about 325 miles on a 16-gallon tank, so that's 60 liters of gas, or about 3400 megajoules. To get that same amount of energy from hydrogen, I'd need 309100 liters of the stuff, at STP. To fit that into a 16-gallon tank, I'd need to pressurize it to about 5000psi, or about 340 atmospheres.

      Not particularly difficult to build a tank that can hold that. Not even particularly difficult to build a tank that can hold that and still have a huge safety margin. HY80 steel, ferinstance, has a yield strength of (surprise!) 80,000psi on a one-inch thickness. Even aluminum might do the job; 5083 H-116 plate has a yield strength of 34,000 psi. Sure, you're carrying around a tank of highly-compressed hydrogen, but making a tank that's strong enough not to rupture in approachingly-normal circumstances, and connecting it to the car with a strong enough leakage that it won't break itself free and go flying into the next county if it *does* happen to rupture is hardly a game-breaker. Hell, cars today carry around tanks of a highly-flammable liquid in a tank of thin sheet steel, and those rarely rupture, and people aren't concerned about the safety of it.

      No, the key issue with hydrogen is that there's no good way to produce it. Until you go all-nuclear, electrolysis is ridiculously expensive, and steam-reformation of hydrocarbons doesn't really help you.

      Leaks? Get the production cost low enough and nobody'll care about leaks, anymore than they care about the trickle of water leaking from a car's exhaust pipe.

    4. Re:The fundamental issue with Hydrogen... by Yartrebo · · Score: 3, Interesting

      My car gets about 325 miles on a 16-gallon tank, so that's 60 liters of gas, or about 3400 megajoules. To get that same amount of energy from hydrogen, I'd need 309100 liters of the stuff, at STP. To fit that into a 16-gallon tank, I'd need to pressurize it to about 5000psi, or about 340 atmospheres.

      My math shows that the pressure will be 41.6 kPa per mole of hydrogen using a 60 litre tank at 300 Kelvins (around room temperature). The heat of reaction of H2 + 1/2O2 = H20 is 241.8 kJ/mol, so to store 3.4 GJ of energy, you would need 14,060 moles of hydrogen, and the pressure would be about 584 MPa, or about 5,800 atmospheres assuming hydrogen is an ideal gas.

      Hydrogen ceases to be like an ideal gas far before 5,800 atmospheres are reached. In fact, no amount of compression short of squeezing the hydrogen into a ball of neutrons (trillions of atmospheres required at a minimum) will fit the hydrogen into that tank. Well, there would be an intermediate point (after a few billion atmospheres) where the carbon and leftover hydrogen could be combined into hydrocarbons and those should fit into the tank.

  9. It's a nice thought.. by JohnnyKlunk · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I beleive in this stuff, I really do.
    I can't rtfa as it's /.'d currently - but we all know the content - "Install insulation, drive a fuel-efficient car". Lovely, great thought - but how do you put it into practice. I don't own a car, I make a point of not owning one but how do you convince Mr Tinyknob in his suv-sports-environment killer to drive something fuel efficient? He's never going to impress people any other way.

    OK, I'm being harsh, but it's fair. I take all sorts of precautions to leave a fair planet for my (currently) 5 week old daughter, but I frequently wonder what the "£$%ing point is if the guy at the next desk drives 500 miles weekly in his V8 5litre penis extension because he's got no self esteem what-so-ever?

    1. Re:It's a nice thought.. by IAR80 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Don't vote the republicans and maybe US will sign the Kyoto threaty and when gasoline is going to cost 4.5$ per galon (like in europe) Mr Tinyknob will be bancrupt in no time if he still try to impress people with the suv.

      --
      http://ebgp.net/ccc/
  10. Diesel with or without Biodiesel is a good start by CapsaicinBoy · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Driving a modern VW or MB diesel whether or not you ever plan to use a single drop of domestically produced biodiesel is a good place to start.

    My 2003 Jetta TDI has 40862 miles on it and I've used 832.7 gallons of diesel (and 56.9 gallons of biodiesel) thus far. For those of you keeping score at home, that's about 45.93 mpg over the life of the car. Not too shabby.

    Why wait 15-20 years for hydrogen when we can start reducing our dependence on foreign oil NOW?

  11. I've never understand electric cars by Loco3KGT · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Batteries are amazingly corrosive.

    A lot of the U.S. gets its electricity from coal and other non-replaceable fuels that damamge the environment.

    Everytime you drive it you have to plug in and get more electric charge from the above environment destroying power plant.

    Where's the bonus?

    --
    Blessed be he who reads this post, Cursed be he who tells my boss.
    1. Re:I've never understand electric cars by doorbot.com · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Everytime you drive it you have to plug in and get more electric charge from the above environment destroying power plant.

      In theory, a power plant's pollution is "localized" and thus more easily controlled.

      Perhaps you can think of it as a mainframe/supercomputer vs. workstations/beowulf clusters... car pollution is distributed (which might be good, because then one place doesn't get polluted "too much"), whereas powerplant pollution is highly localized (initially -- yes, it gets distributed by wind patterns, etc).

      The point is that it's *far* easier to reduce pollution (eg, with newly invented tech) if your pollution sources are centralized. Good luck getting every car owner to bring their 1970's beater in to get the latest anti-pollution gadget. Installation of pollution controls on one power plant reduces pollution far more than installation of a similar gadget on one car.

      But the problem with this discussion is it's really a no-win solution. Humanity needs energy, and there will be pollutants no matter what we use (let's ignore entropy for the time being). That's not to say we should use the most polluting processes, but it's is important to recognize what levels of pollution can be reduced in an economically-feasible manner.

      There will be some optimal point where we accept a certain level of pollution because it's not worth my/your/everyone's limited time and money to do additional cleanup/prevention.

      How much energy was "wasted" while you read this post? Maybe you should've turned your computer off instead...

  12. You forget about nuclear power by argoff · · Score: 5, Insightful

    You are forgetting that in a hydrogen society - there is now room to bring nuclear power back into the picture. Now people have the potential to create hydrogen on a vast scale far away from any place that might have political fallout.

    In spite of all the bad press, the fact is that nuclear is still the safest, cheapest, and most environemtally friendly energy source ever created. IMHO, it's bad wrap had far more to do with its threat to OPEC then it ever had to do with safety or radiation.

    1. Re:You forget about nuclear power by RsG · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Plus, never forget that nuclear waste is far worse for human health than it is for the environment. For a variety of biological reasons we are especially vulnerable to radiation, whereas most plant and animal species are not. A nuclear disaster would be devastating for human nations, but the ecosystem(s) involved would recover. And while the life expectancy of nuclear by-products is long when compared to human civilization, ten thousand years is an eyeblink from a global ecological perspective. What greens fail to realize is that humans fuck up the environment by introducing _fast_ change, not because the environment is inherently fragile.

      That being said, I would much prefer a fusion economy to a fission one, since that would solve our energy production problems in short order.

      --
      Erotic is when you use a feather. Exotic is when you use the whole chicken.
    2. Re:You forget about nuclear power by El+Puerco+Loco · · Score: 4, Interesting

      There are plenty of people at risk from decaying hydroelectric infrastructure. Dams don't last forever and when they fail the results can be catastrophic. The Chernobyl accident killed 32 people. With the exception of an increase in thyroid cancers, the dire predictions of a massive epidemic of cancers and leukemia have largely failed to materialize. Now consider the Johnstown flood of 1889. More than 2200 people were killed outright as the result of a dam breach. In more recent times, nearly 10,000 people were killed in 1973 in China alone as the result of dam failures. Huge, expensive hydroelectric dams in the U.S. are in danger of being rendered useless as a result of silting, many after a service life of only 50 years or less, and the problem is nearly impossible to fix without breaching the dam and starting over. Hydroelectric dams are responsible for depleting fish stocks and generally wreaking havoc on both down and upstream ecosystems. Hydropower is hardly environmentally benign nor is it entirely safe for communities near large projects. Hydropower has killed more people than nuclear energy (not counting, of course, the bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki) has or is ever likely to, but I guess people just feel more comfortable being killed by something familiar that they can see, like a 50 foot wall of water than by a mysterious, invisible force like nuclear radiation, even if the former is far more likely.

    3. Re:You forget about nuclear power by Phanatic1a · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Burning coal produces waste that remains toxic forever. Half-lives come and go, but arsenic is forever.

      Nuclear power is environmentally friendly because the amounts of waste you're talking about are incredibly low for all the energy you're getting out. You're looking at around 23 tons of high-level waste per megawatt of plant per year, at a 91% duty cycle. And this is dense stuff, by the way, so volumetrically it's a very small amount. It's also in a relatively convenient-to-handle form; it's not discharged into the air or the water.

      Compare that to a coal plant, where you're generating 1.5 million tons of ash per megawatt of plant per year, which is vastly more polluting, and that's not even considering the CO2. For every single kilowatt-hour of energy you get fro burning coal, you produce a kilogram of CO2. So if you run your megawatt coal plant on a 70% duty cycle, generating 8800 megawatt-hours,you dump 4400 tons of CO2 into the atmosphere.

      And that fly-ash you're making is toxic forever. It's caustic. It's filled with heavy metals. Both in terms of mass and volume you've got orders of magnitude more of it to deal with than you would if you went nuclear. And if you're concerned about radiation, well, burning coal releases uranium and thorium isotopes right into the atmosphere; coal has up to 10ppm of uranium in it. Since 1937, burning coal in the United States alone has dumped 145,000 tons of uranium and 357,000 tons of thorium into the air; that radiation's just as real as the stuff in nuclear waste, and the cancers it causes and the people it kills are just as real.

      Let's pick a random small country, like the UK. From what I can find, they have a generation capacity of 361 terawatt-hours per year. 8765 hours in a year, 91% duty cycle, so 8000 hours. To produce 361 terawatt-hours in 8000 hours, you need 4500 megawatts of plant. So if the UK went all-nuclear, they'd generate just a bit over 100 tons of high-level waste per year.

      They could take that, put it in thin-walled steel drums, and dump it right to the bottom of the North Sea, and they'd be doing vastly less environmental damage than they're doing now, by getting 74% of the electricy from burning fossil fuels and dumping 614 billion pounds of CO2 into the air every year.

      That 145,000 tons of uranium the US has dumped into the air just by burning coal, since 1937? Well, that's 10440 tons of U235, which if you fission it (okay, with perfect effiency. This is just to illustrate a point) produces 17.6 kilotons of energy per kilogram. If you fission 10440 tons of it, you end up with 193 petawatt-hours. That right there's the electrical needs of the entire UK for 500 years, at present rates of consumption.

      By all those metrics is nuclear power environmentally friendly. It's utterly ridiculous that we're not embracing the technology and making our electricity the right way.

    4. Re:You forget about nuclear power by Phanatic1a · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Actually, I just did a BOTE and realized I could have made that entire post much shorter. Here's the shorter version.

      Chemical:
      One pound of coal = 926 watt-hours = 3.36 megajoules.

      Nuclear
      One pound of coal = 5-millionths of a pound of uranium (median value) = 0.000000036 pounds U235 = 1.20 megajoules.

      In other words, you'd get almost one-third the energy you get from burning coal from fissioning the uranium that's in the coal you burn.

    5. Re:You forget about nuclear power by ChumpusRex2003 · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Don't forget that energy can be massively multiplied with suitable reactor technology (i.e. breeders). A fully recycled breeder reactor system could obtain 50x as much energy from the uranium. The same could be done with thorium - except that thorium is 3-4x as abundant as uranium in coal. The total energy resource of nuclear materials in coal, exceeds the energy content of the coal by more than an order or magnitude.

    6. Re:You forget about nuclear power by dpletche · · Score: 4, Informative

      Very good points. Don't forget, also, that coal is responsible for the increasing levels of mercury in the environment. Over time, the metallic mercury released by coal-burning plants is transformed into organic methyl mercury, which is phenomenally toxic and teratogenic. The FDA and EPA are recommending that pregnant and nursing women severely limit their intake of fish, and that humans should never eat certain kinds of fish high on the food chain (shark, tilefish, swordfish, etc.) Mercury levels in tuna have also risen to worrisome levels.

      Until we change our outlook, the growing energy needs of our planet will be met primarily with toxic, dirty coal, and we will be suffering the consequences for a very long time.

      Credible links with more information:
      http://www.pbs.org/now/science/mercu ryinfish.html
      http://www.epa.gov/ost/fishadvice/m ercupd.pdf

  13. Re:No comments? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

    a PDF is a text file made slightly fuzzy so it looks shit.

  14. I don't get it... by Fnkmaster · · Score: 4, Informative
    I thought everybody but George Bush knew that the supposed economics of hydrogen fuel cell vehicles were a crock. This has been widely reported in mass media, discussed and rehashed many times on Slashdot. Hydrogen isn't clean unless it's being produced by clean means. If we are just going to burn more coal and oil to make hydrogen, we gain some efficiency by producing the energy centrally, but lose that energy savings and then some in the transportation and distribution of the hydrogen (or by the lesser economies of small-scale distributed hydrogen production). Every time you convert the form of energy, you lose energy - at best you get 75-80% efficiency in a conversion (as in large scale cracking of water to hydrogen), at worst, much less.


    Instead of investing billions in pipe dreams, we should focus on excellent technology that can be implemented in the next few years for a reasonable cost. Renewable cellulose-derived ethanol could reduce our dependence on foreign fossil fuels and is neutral in net carbon impact (the carbon emissions from burning the fuel are offset by growing more low cost fuel crops that take CO2 out of the environment). And current gasoline engines run with minimal modifications on E85, an 85% ethanol, 15% gasoline mix. Making FFV engines (flexible fuel vehicles - compatible with ethanol and gasoline in various mixtures) can be done for at most 100-200 dollars of extra cost at vehicle build time, and many FFVs are already on the road in the US (in many cases, people don't even know they have them, the manufacturers build them for tax breaks then don't market the features outside of certain areas of the midwest where corn-derived ethanol is available at the gas station).


    At current gas prices, cellulose-derived ethanol is actually more than competitive, it is cheaper than gas - the problem is the long term instability of gas prices makes investing in infrastructure to produce cellulosic ethanol as a fuel substitute too risky - it's hard to compete with something pumped out of the ground, where most of the costs are transportation, and political/defense issues. Please note that we're NOT talking about corn ethanol, which a highly subsidized and environmentally contentious product due to high energy costs of growing and harvesting corn.

    1. Re:I don't get it... by CapsaicinBoy · · Score: 4, Informative

      "Please note that we're NOT talking about corn ethanol, which a highly subsidized and environmentally contentious product due to high energy costs of growing and harvesting corn."

      Actually, even corn-ethanol has a positive energy balance these days. Much of the confusion dates back to some old calculation's by Pimental at Cornell that found corn-ethanol had a negative energy balance when in fact more recent USDA numbers show that corn-ethanol produces 67% more energy that it takes to produce it.

      Still, biodiesel blows ethanol out of the water in terms of energy balance. And that's making B100 from soy. Imagine the energy return if we made it from dual use crops like mustard or better yet from algae.

      Algae source biodiesel grown on 15,000 sq. miles could completely displace petroleum transporation fuels in the US. Don't believe me? Read Mike Briggs' analysis for yourself:

      http://www.unh.edu/p2/biodiesel/article_alge.htm l

  15. Sadly, we've built a North American wasteland... by Dzimas · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I went shopping this morning - spent my time shuttling my car between various big-box stores. WalMart, the grocery store, the bank. I've got a 2 year-old, so walking is out of the question (and, honestly, I wouldn't want to walk that distance anyway). The truly sad thing is that the shops are "next to each other" but separated by huge expanses of parking lot. What makes it truly sad is that there is an LRT line that runs through the shopping district, with a stop at 2km intervals. Too far for anything but waiting for the busses (which run on a 45 minute schedule on the weekend). My point? Its nearly impossible not to have a car, and each of the free-standing houses in the surburban neighbourhoods is approximately 2000 square feet. Most are at least 2km from shops, schools, and rec centres. I doubt many residents want to live in the area, but we cannot afford expensive "trendy" inner city homes. And the developers seem stuck in a rut -- they just churn out more sprawl each year. I wonder if its possible to make them change? Signed, Sad is Suburbia.

  16. thinks that can be done by IAR80 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Build more nuclear reactors. Develop a working plutonium breeder (invest money in research). Drive down the prices on solar and wind (a wind turbine that can be manufacured in 300-400$ cost 2-3K$). Move out of teh suburbia. Start buying from local shops instead of driving to Walmarkt. Move closer to your working place even if the rent is 20% higher. Use the bike more often (is healty, environmental friendly and cheaper). Recycle. Increase the thermal efeciency of your home (better insulation ....). Get a VIA C3 or Crusoe instead of the P4. Get a hybrid car or a diesel. And most important DON'T VOTE BUSH! PLEASE!!!!!!!!!

    --
    http://ebgp.net/ccc/
    1. Re:thinks that can be done by dsanfte · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The fact that Bush will likely win this election is more a failure of the Democratic party to be anything but "not-Bush", while still being as corrupt and crooked as the republicans.

      The wise choice this election would in fact be to vote for a third party candidate, but nobody can seem to motivate themselves to do that.

      --
      occultae nullus est respectus musicae - originally a Greek proverb
    2. Re:thinks that can be done by moonbender · · Score: 3, Insightful

      If Bush win's this election it's mostly a catastrophic failure of the American people. No offense intended.

      --
      Switch back to Slashdot's D1 system.
  17. "Cruel Hoax" by Rostin · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I'm no expert, but I've believed this to be the case ever since I wrote a paper on it for a chemistry course and (for an unrelated course) designed a methanol reformer for use on a fuel cell vehicle. I've never said much about it, because I thought, "Well, who are you? All these specialists and people who make energy policy seem to think it's feasible.."

    It warms my heart to see a expert saying what I already thought.

  18. hydrogen by Ralph+Spoilsport · · Score: 3, Interesting
    The Parent Spaketh:

    (Bottom line, he maintains, is that it's [hydrogen] a cruel hoax and energy disaster, and far less useful than, for example, heavy hybrid automobiles that get about 50 - 60 miles on an electric charge alone -- which accounts for more than 85% of driving in the US and elsewhere on a daily basis -- and which are available now.)

    What is also sad from my viewpoint is that hydrogen, technically, isn't really a "fuel". You need a lot of energy to make it. Now, if one uses solar power to make electricity to crack water to make H, then you've sort of solved part of the problem, but solar panels have a shelf life, and are dependent on local weather conditions.

    I don't see Hydrogen as much of a solution for transportation. But I do think it could be used for home heating and local electrical generation in adverse environments. Still, the generation of Hydrogen is the big nut to crack. I think one nation on earth could become the Saudi Arabia of Hydrogen: Iceland.

    1. They're an island, so they have all the water they need.
    2.The whole freakin' island is basically a lava slick.

    You don't have to drill very far down to get Enormous Amounts of geothermal energy, which they are already tapping for island electrical needs. All they have to do is build extra geothermal plants and crack the Atlantic Ocean. Geothermal s steady and continuous power (the earth isn't going to cool off anytime in the near future, and as Iceland is part of the Atlantic Spread, I don't think anything we can do will slow plate tectonics or cool Iceland off).

    Hawaii and Vanuatu could be the Pacific Equivalents. Steady energy, lots of water. With that kind of a set up, we'll have a situation more like petroleum, where we'd have a real "fuel" i.e., lots of stored energy for very little energy expenditure in its creation.

    I used to be all into Hydrogen - thikning - Hey - it turns into WATER when you burn it! KEWL!

    But when I found out that the easiest hydrogen to get is out of petroleum, and that getting it out of either water or petroleum takes a lot of energy (which we get from either petroleum or fission - neither of which is renewable, except for the politically suicidal option of breeder reactors) my enthusiasm faded.

    The first thing is conservation, and the article provides a lot of great ideas (many of which I am already doing, and had pointers for some that I will be dong!) for that. But I'm afraid that the next several decades will be warfare over water and energy, and we really need to find solutions to both problems.

    I've stated before that the real problem is demographic - there are simply too many people. We need to *gradually* reduce populations to a sustainable level (I would estimate a global population of 250 - 300 million could be made sustainable indefinitely) and then develop long term energy, water, and metal recycling solutions.

    If we don't the not so distant future will be one of horrifying catastrophe: disease, continuous war over ever dimishing resources, no power, crushing poverty and crowding, and a long term future best described as a paleolithic extinction event.

    So, these are simple little choices we can make now, so we can plan for the future. OR, we can be our typical shortsighted green eyed greedy guts eat the world up everything for me and mine, and fuck the rest of you losers and simply watch the most precious of things in the universe - sentience - disappear.

    It WILL eventually disappear, but it doesn't have to go this way - so stupidly, and so preventably.

    Your every decision has far reaching effects.

    RS

    --
    Shoes for Industry. Shoes for the Dead.
  19. Re:Diodes by ericpi · · Score: 4, Interesting

    The watt-hour meters used by electric companies are supprisingly accurate, and resiliant to many types of 'cheats'. I've heard of several schemes to fool meters, such as drawing lots of power in very short bursts, in hopes that the meter can't keep up, etc. The results I heard were the same: The meter will do a reasonably good job of measuring your energy usage, reagardless of how you choose to use that energy.

    Sure, the the diode you suggest will make your meter run slower... at the mere expense of a bulb that's not as bright as it was before. (Standard light dimmers work in much the same way: By reducing the % of the cycle the bulb is powered.) Aside from the time you spent, you'll simply come out even in the end.

  20. Cool, but... by Rew190 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I really doubt in a nation filled to the brim of SUVs that average America has a real concern for environmental and energy-related issues...

  21. Cutting the electric bill down by here4fun · · Score: 3, Interesting
    I am saving $10 a month on electricity from one easy change. I replaced the kitchen lights (there were three 100 watt bulbs before) with fluorescent lights. In the past, I tried to pay attention to turning the lights off before bed so I would not waste electricity or shorten bulb life. With the fluorescent lights, I now don't care if the lights stay on all night long, I still pay so much less money.

    I also saw something cool on the web. Some guy had a small solar panel and battery kit which could hold enough of a charge to run a small air conditioner for most of the day (when there was sunlight). I think that is a cool idea, as most friends who must use window air conditioners always complain how much more their electricity bill is in the summer.

  22. sorry, saving money IS the botton line by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    If saving money isn't the botton line, then the goverment is doing it's job (which it isn't).
    Money makes the world go round. We should not blame people for making decisions based on economics: rather, we must blame the government if they institute an economic and regulatory framework that fails to ensure that the good economic decision is the decision that's good for society (i.e. the environment) also. The current bad system actually subsidizes (encourages) poor decisions (dirty methods of energy conversion) and fails to appreciate the value of (encourage) good choices (clearner methods of energy conversion).

    NOTE: It is the failure to *value* cleaner methods of energy conversion that prevents people from not only making the 'cleaner' choice, but also from making the more energy efficient choice. why? Simple. It's because the cleaner technologies that emit less pollution per useful unit of energy output (Pollution Efficiency) also happen to be the technologies that have higher useful energy output per unit of fuel (Fuel Efficiency)!
    Therefore, consumers can't just buy a more fuel efficient car for a higher price but make it up on the fuel savings... no... because they are also paying more for the cleaner technology, but they get no reward for it!

    SO, and I hope despite being AC, this idea is evaluated on it's own merits and modded up if it makes sense to you, economically recognizing the value of clearner technologies is *the* lynchpin not only of less pollution, but of greater efficiency as well!

  23. Battery is worse by robogun · · Score: 3, Informative
    However, if you use solar energy to create electricity to electrolyze water, and make hydrogen gas that way, you end up with less energy at the wheels of a car than you would just charging a battery from the same solar energy.

    Powering cars by rechargable batteries has MANY more problems... If 50% power loss is assumed at each step (optimistic), how much power is really needed to charge a battery, after 1) Generation 2) Transmission 3) Step down to battery V in garage 4)Recharge loss 5) Storage loss

    You want leaks? Battery drains faster than hydrogen can escape

    Let's not even talk about the unchanging (heavy) weight of batteries (whereas fuel weight decreases at is consumed). You are still hauling 500 lbs of battery full or empty.

    What about practicality? It takes several hours to recharge a battery vehicle. They are only practical in closed loops e.g. golf courses, where usage is more or less constant. Though admittedly a setup with chargers at home +and+ at place of employment would be useful for the 9-5'ers.

    What about the environment? Lead and elecrtolyte will have to be replaced regularly. And accidents will get really ugly as acid is spilled all over the place.

  24. Re:Totally disagree by mprinkey · · Score: 5, Informative

    But the first movers on the "big ticket" efficiency ideas are the ones that get all of the press. I am not against PVs. I think it is great that the technology is progressing as it has, but there are millions of households that could save ~$100-$300 worth of electricity per year with very simple, inexpensive, boring improvements. These aren't whizbang enough to attract media attention, so people just don't know about them.

    Fuel cells, PVs, super-insulated passive solar houses...these get the press...or at least did at different times since the 70s. Turning down 10% of the water heaters in America by 5 degrees and installing a water heater blanket will save more energy than produced by all of the PVs ever produced. See, my argument is that it must be economically viable in order for Joe Average to bother with it. There are economically feasible efficiency ideas that are commonly overlooked because they are so boring.

    Good example. I have a ground-source (aka geothermal) heat pump in my house. I had a hard time finding a dealer to install it. They just aren't that popular. During heating season, it operates at a coefficient of performance of about 4. Every watt of electricity I put in, I get 4 watts of heat out. My electric bills are only about $100/month, even in the winter (Southwestern PA)...compared to people who got $400 gas bills last year. That is an energy efficiency and an economic win. But, there was no promotion of geothermal heat pumps. There was no discussions of them in the press. Energy efficient ideas have been divorced from economic viability for far too long...lining them up right next to people wearing hemp clothing. This needs to change. It should not be "fringe" to be energy efficient.

  25. My $0.02 by mcrbids · · Score: 4, Informative

    As father of five kids, with seven people in the house, basic things such as double-paned windows, water-saving shower heads, gas dryer, hot-water blankets, compact flourescent bulbs, and so on have been the mainstay.

    If this was not the case, my monthly utility bill (in California) would easily hit $500-$600/mo. As it is, we're lucky to have bills typically in the $200-$300 range. (I have two mini-servers for my business that are never off)

    Often, these kinds of things provide clear advantages beyond merely saving money.

    Recently, the water-saving shower head in the downstairs bathroom broke, and I screwed on the original shower head, which I still had in the shed, thinking this would "get us by" until I could get in for another one.

    Boy, was I wrong! With the old shower head, we could shower everybody in the household, one right after another in about one or two hours, including dressing.

    But, with the new shower head, we ran out of hot water within 20 minutes, making showering everybody nearly an all-day venture while we waited for the hot-water heater to catch up.

    Once, my son left the shower running hot water all night long, and in the morning, we found the shower going, and there was still plenty of hot water!

    Another example: Flourescent bulbs not only use far less energy than incandescent, they also last much longer (who wants to replace light bulbs once a month?) and don't heat up the house.

    I noticed the difference when I changed out the three 60-watt bulbs on the living room fam with three 15-watt flourescent! The room was, if anything, brighter, and, previously, when the fan was on low, you could FEEL the heat coming off those three 60-watt bulbs!

    Double-paned windows mean that my teen children can blare their punk music as loud as they want to without pissing off the neighbors. Also, we live on a somewhat busy street, and I can sleep off hours without car noise waking me. (as long as said kids don't blare their punk music)

    Also, in the winter time, you can sit next to the windows and not feel cold. That adds much to my sense of well-being on a cold winter morning...

    Embrace conservation. It doesn't *have* to be a hassle!

    --
    I have no problem with your religion until you decide it's reason to deprive others of the truth.
  26. Why it's so big. by mistshadow · · Score: 3, Informative

    The article (which I've only read through the google cache link) has a bunch of images, which are probably bloating it to the 5MB mark. The cached version, including all of the crazy markup google uses to make the HTML look like the PDF, is ~380K.

    1. Re:Why it's so big. by apzelic · · Score: 5, Informative

      My apologies to all for not being able to access a copy of the book. The server did INDEED crash, but it's my fault for posting such a large item and then not taking into account the "Slashdot effect". I would be happy to e-mail to individuals a copy of the book, and will consider in the meantime putting it into html format. Drop me a request at: zalan8587@qwest.net (assuming your e-mail service doesn't mind 5MB e-mails! Zipping doesn't reduce the size much). And, if you like the book, please consider passing it on to friends and colleagues. A small donation ($5 or $10) would be nice so that I can continue to spend time (LOTS of time) updating and improving the scientific and practical content. Al Zelicoff, Albuquerque, NM

  27. I'm a proponent of... by zogger · · Score: 3, Insightful

    ...alternative energy conversion devices, but I'll be the first one to admit that more sane conservation will do more in the short and medium term than anything else. It's jhoe sixpacks best bet dollar for dollar right now. Making homes with double the insulation for example, and using triple pane nitrogen gas filled windows, or integral blinds, etc are all great. The water heater blankets. Much better quality home appliances, like sunfrost units instead of el cheapos, and etc.

    Basically, I like both methods simultaneously. My theory is you work both ends towards the middle. Produce (or use) more of your own power using renewables, and conserve what you use, use less but get more. Eventually those two lines meet up and you are sitting pretty energy wise.

    some more things I'd like to see:

    LEDs becoming commonplace in replacement of incandescents and fluorescents

    Solar hot water heating and some more PV action on all the millions of sunny roofs out there

    More commercial sized wind gennys on farms, both to help out the farmers and to add to the grid redundancy without resorting to more fuel burning plants.

    Electric vehicles are practical enough now, need the manufacturers to just come up with a few normal looking models and sell the dang things, recharging at night is a benefit to the big power producers as well,they have to keep their units running even when demand is low like at night

    Building codes and mortgage lenders need to get into the act and stop lending or approving dismally low levels of insulation in new construction

    Stop the destruction of community small scale hydro electric like they are doing now, hydro is the cleanest and most cost effective low tech solution for electrical production.

    Legalise industrial hemp and partially use it for liquid fuel production, the "solar conversion" with plants is very good and the ethanol or methanol or biodiesel that can be produced burns fairly clean. Hemp is good because it grows so fast, requires little attention or fertilisers compared to alternative fuel crops like corn for example

    Higher mandated average vehicle mileage. Detroit whined and sniveled, said it was impossible, but once it was passed, by golly they met the goals. They could do it again because the higher mileage vehicles are out there now in other areas of the world, and until there's an incentive like a law, it won't happen as much as it needs to happen. And include normal pickups and SUVs into the mix. They could add take a scosh better mileage.

    R&D I'd like to see

    I think there's some huge power to be harvested in the areas of atmospheric static electricity and in the "differential" areas like in the ocean thermocline difference and with deep earth to surface differences. Pilot programs have shown it's there, just needs a little more work to get it consistent and useable

    More work on improving permanent magnet motors and generators, they also show some decent promise in efficiency gains in a variety of applications

    More mandated recycling, stop the nutso throw away culture. Products should also have their recyclability taken into consideration during design phases. Most people don't mind recycling at all-if it's convenient and actually useful

    A LOT more methane production from ag waste and community sewer treatment plants. It's barely got off the ground in some places and it's proving practical, just need more of it and better designed digesters, etc.

  28. The answer for cars is plug-in hybrids by Thagg · · Score: 5, Interesting
    A group of people called PriusPlus have just about completed a plug-in modification of one of their 2004 Priuses. It is a great car, and a great way to save energy -- at least a good way to save gasoline.


    The normal Prius uses its battery pack to help acceleration, hill climbing, and to power accessories. The battery pack is recharged by the gas engine and by regenerative braking. Every place except North America, the Prius has an EV button, which turns the car into a pure electric car -- but only for a mile or two before the battery reaches a state-of-charge (SOC) that is too low. The Prius battery back is designed to last an extremely long time (warranteed for 150,000 miles), and one way Toyota assures that is by limiting the SOC to a small range, from about 25% full to 80% full.


    Priusplus is adding a separate "traction" battery, that works with the normal Prius drivetrain, to provide a long-distance EV mode. In their first proof-of-concept car (which should be finished this weekend) it uses 12 motorcycle Lead-Acid batteries, and it should go about 20 or 30 miles on an overnight (or overday) charge. Using far superiour Lithium Ion batteries, they should get about 80 miles for a battery pack that costs about $5,000 or so (although current Lithium cells are quite small indeed, requiring a rediculous number of batteries wired into a large pack)


    If I could go, say, even 40 miles on a charge, I wouldn't use the gas motor in my Prius except to climb very steep hills during the week. I'd effectively get well over 100 mpg (Electricity costs, even in California, give a price-per-mile of about 2 cents. Unfortunately, at this point, the cost for the traction battery (because it is more deeply cycled it doesn't last as long) probably adds another few cents/mile.


    PriusPlus is hoping to display there car at a show here in Los Angeles at the end of the month, and is attempting to persuade Toyota that this is a car they should build. Once people are educated about the benefits of hybrid technology, it should be a small step to show them the further benefits of plugging them in.


    I fervently hope that PriusPlus will succeed!


    Thad

    --
    I love Mondays. On a Monday, anything is possible.
  29. Re: "Derision" felt for the "Anti-Consumer" by travler · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Some who tries to conserving energy may be said to be an "anti-consumer", because if one conserves energy, then that person is not being the best possible consumer.

    The reason such persons are objects of derision is because we Americans have been socialized to be the best possible consumers we can be: years of corporate media propaganda have been directed towards encouraging us to spend as much on food as possible, as much on transportation as possible, as much on healthcare as possible.


    I don't care about anyone being an 'anit-consumer'.

    Consume less all you want I really don't mind, in fact since less demand = lower prices I'm all for it.

    The problem that I personally have (and I think that most anti-green/socialist types have) is that the only way they (enbormentalists/socialists) can force their utopian agenda on the rest of the world is by government action (people with guns forcing me to do stuff I don't want to do).

    In other words it is a freedom issue. I think we all want clean air/water, good health care, nice work environments, etc. The argument is how to get there not on what the goals are.

    The way I see it enviromentalists/socialists are objects of derision (at least in my mind) because they either truely don't understand how the world works (they want stuff for free as in free beer with no thought on who pays the bill) or they do know the cost and are more than happy for me to pay it for them even though I don't agree with their plan.

    Socialism (and most environmentalist groups I've read about seem to fit here too) doesn't work because you have to have a strong central government forcing people to behave in ways they don't want to. It is inefficient and the people who live under it feel oppressed. You don't get good results for society as a whole or for individuals within that society. Everyone loses.

    All of this is my opinion but perhaps you will find it usefull to understand how the 'oposition' thinks. It isn't that we don't want those things it is that the price of the system that you are advocating (my freedom) is too high.

  30. 74 Buick? death trap by scruffyMark · · Score: 3, Informative

    Those things have no crumple zones at all. You get into a crash, they stop suddenly, and none of the energy is absorbed by the car - it all gets transferred to the people in the car. Squish.

    --

    What is the robbing of a bank, compared to the founding of a bank? -- Bertolt Brecht

  31. Insulate..... by ge · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I live in Tucson, AZ, in a 2500 sq. ft. house, with lots of windows. The electric bill runs about $150 in the middle of summer, $60-$75 in winter. I do have 2 PCs and various other equipment running 24/7.

    Friends who live in a 2000 sq. ft. home built by a volume builder pay about $300 right now, and I have heard of people that have $600/month power bills.

    We spent a few $1000 extra to get a more efficient house:
    - blow-in insulation was used everywhere. There's more than a foot of the stuff under the roof, and 6 inches in the walls, packed tight.
    - most windows are dual-pane Low-E2, tinted to reduce glare
    - we limited the number of skylights
    - the A/C is a high-efficiency, dual-compressor model (18 SEER)
    - we use fluorescent lights where possible
    - we keep shades drawn in rooms we don't use, such as a guest room, and my office on weekends.

    It looks like we'll recover the extra cost in about 5-7 years.

  32. Count the cost of free energy... by mellon · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Hydro is not environmentally friendly. It dams up rivers and destroys ecosystems. Making solar panels takes energy, and produces pollution. Wind energy kills birds in large numbers.

    The big unsolved problems of nuclear power include - how do you mine fuel without killing people? If you think coal dust is bad to breathe, try breathing uranium ore dust sometime.

    Okay, now you have to enrich it. Now you have to use the fuel without meltdowns. Pebble beds solve that problem - it's really not the big problem with nuclear power plants.

    Now you've got spent fuel that you have to get rid of. Where do you put it? And what about the plant itself? Once a nuclear plant is worn out, you have a giant heap of highly radioactive stuff, and you can't just haul it off and dump it in a salt mine because in order to haul it off, you have to cut it up, and cutting it up releases a giant plume of radioactive dust into the environment.

    Pretty much any energy generation system has costs associated with it. I think the cost/benefit analysis for nuclear really sucks, and the story for some other forms of energy is much better, but let's take off our rose-colored glasses and look at all the costs, not just the costs of the energy generation systems we don't like.

  33. Blankets not always helpful. Go tankless! by raygundan · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Most modern water heaters already have the equivalent of the insulation blankets people put on older models. A recent model will not benefit from the blanket nearly as much as an older unit. More insulation always helps, but the gains become very small after a while.

    A quick reference on when to use or not use the blanket. Anybody reading this should note that the original poster's "warm to the touch test" is absolutely correct-- if it isn't warmer than the surroundings, it isn't losing much heat.

    What you REALLY want to fix this "keeping a tank of water warm all the time" problem is an on-demand water heater. They're a little more expensive than normal water heaters, but they have a few key benefits:

    1. No tank to take up space.
    2. Never runs out of hot water.
    3. Doesn't have to keep a tank of water warm when not in use, making them much more efficient.

    I'm surprised that #2 alone hasn't made them the de-facto replacement for tank water heaters in America (I understand they're common in europe and japan). Energy efficiency aside-- you can't run out of hot water with a tankless, on-demand water heater!

    If you're even *considering* a new unit in the near future, go tankless! Installing them isn't any different than anything else that needs plumbing for water and gas-- even if they've never heard of one, your local contractor will be able to install it.

  34. Re:Sadly, we've built a North American wasteland.. by superdude72 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Knowing the inner-city conditions and living costs of most major cities i've been to, i'm continually amazed anyone wants to live there.

    I'm amazed that anyone thinks suburbia is a good place to raise kids. I was a prisoner in my home until I was 16 and allowed to drive a car. After-school options until that age were curtailed by the lack of transportation. It would have been good to have some kind of after-school clubs to go to, but who's gonna drive us home? Our school was 7 miles away. If you wonder why our culture is so vapid, maybe it's because the last generation of kids, instead of going to band practice or drama practice after school, went home to watch the Jefferson's on TV.

    When my sister and I were in high school, we both had our own car, and worked crappy McJobs to pay for them. That's one household, four cars. We didn't need to haul things, usually--we just needed them to get ourselves places. What a waste.

    I live in "inner city" San Francisco now, without a car, and I love it. My stress is so much lower now that I no longer spend an hour a day fighting traffic. No place in the city is more than 2 blocks from public transit. If I need a car, I can rent one, but so far I haven't needed to at all this year. My neighborhood isn't "crime-ridden." There was a murder a couple years ago, but the locals were as shocked as if it had happened in any Mayberry, USA. We have great parks that are much more interesting than any fenced-off suburban yard.

    I do miss having a dog. Maybe when I can afford doggy day care...

  35. Re:Monty Burns got mod points by David+Rolfe · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Just for fairness' sake:

    The fact that nuclear power does not work should be hinted by the other fact that, doh, nobody wants to build them anymore.

    Except China, which plans to build quite a few brand new nuclear reactors to try and keep up with the energy requirements of their increasingly metropolitan way of life. I think they are or planning on damming the Yangtze for hydroelectric as well. I know it's easy to overlook China, as it contains the largest population of humans on Earth. :-p

    --
    Read Heinlein's 1953 Revolt in 2100, now more than ever.
  36. What he's doing is fudging his power factor. by raygundan · · Score: 4, Informative

    I don't think what he's suggesting will dim the bulbs. His suggestion is basically a hack that screws with the oddities of AC power. Without checking things exactly, I believe what he's done is screw up his Power Factor. In the US (I believe), residential owners are billed without consideration for the Power Factor, so he's probably right that this will save you money. The light won't be any dimmer.

    He's also right that it doesn't save any power. And he omits the fact that screwing up your Power Factor is not good for the efficiency of the grid, and probably ends up costing the grid more power than just running normally in the end.

    I have heard that other countries measure the PF for residential users-- which is why you see computer power supplies marketed with "active PF correction" to keep your 600W gaming machine's PSU from fucking up the power grid.

    Here's an article (and another) that explains the basics of AC Power Factor-- an excess of capacitive or inductive loads will result in a leading or lagging power factor, which results in you getting more current delivered for the same amount of power used, and they eat it as line loss in their grid. Industrial facilities in the US *are* charged for having a leading or lagging (ie, not 1) Power Factor, so for factories with lots of electric motors (big inductors), they'll often have a big capacitor bank to pull the PF back in the other direction.

    His trick is to use the fact that light bulbs could care less about PF, AC, or DC to run them roughly DC. The diode clips off the bottom half of the 120V sine wave. The capacitor (charged during the "up" cycle) will supply power during the "down" half of the cycle (which is now off, thanks to the diode), with side effect of giving him a leading power factor.

    My EE classes are getting rusty, so if anybody wants to post a more thorough analysis or point out any mistakes, feel free.

  37. Re:Monty Burns got mod points by Phanatic1a · · Score: 4, Insightful

    and the energy balance is heavily dependent on finding uranium with a high concentration of the good isotope, else the enrichment costs eat up money and energy.

    Nonsense. Breed the stuff, don't worry about digging it out of the ground.

    Nobody wants to build them anymore because of the ridiculous liability concerns, which is hardly fair. Coal plants kill way more people than nuclear plants do, by crudding up the air. They cause respiratory problems, they shorten lifespans, and the radiation they spew into the air causes cancers. But people have this notion that if you distribute a problem widely enough, it suddenly becomes not a problem anymore, and so you can't sue coal plants when they thorium they emit as a waste product gives you cancer.

    That's just silly, no matter how you look at it.

  38. Re:Turn off your displays by psetzer · · Score: 3, Informative

    I have my displays set to turn themselves off on sleep mode. It isn't perfect, since it still uses something like 3 watts, but it's better than a couple hundred by far. Another thing that helps is to search for computer equipment that's Energy Star compliant. It means that the equipment is guaranteed to use at most a certain amount of power when set to sleep mode. The bonus is that the computer starts back up in a matter of seconds. If that isn't fast enough for you, then you really need to take a break.

    --
    "Anyone who attempts to generate random numbers by deterministic means is living in a state of sin." -- John von Neumann
  39. Half-life versus stable by 2901 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Some industrial waste is stable. Arsenic waste from tin mining, mercury waste from gold mining, cadmium from discarded rechargable batteries, beryllium from heat transfer uses.

    None of this stuff decays at all. Waste that just goes away if you wait long enough looks good by comparison.

    More significantly, there is an inverse relationship between half-life and activity. When you take out your spent fuel rods there is some U235 left, with a half-life of 700 million years, and also Strontium 90 with a half-life of 29 years. The Strontium 90 with its short half-life is releasing its energy quickly. This contributes to making the spent reactor very radio-active and very dangerous. But 290 years later 99.9% of the Strontium has decayed. Meanwhile the Uranium, which is releasing its energy too slowly to be dangerous, clouds the issue of how long reactor waste lasts. Long after the waste has ceased to be dangerous, it remains slighty radioactive.

    One mind boggling point is that Uranium used as reator fuel supplies about a million times as much energy per unit weight as coal. Coal is a fairly pure product and contains only about 1.5 parts per million Uranium as a contaminant. So about 50% more Uranium goes up the chimney of a coal fired power station as goes into the reactor of a nuclear power station.

    That is amusing in a way, but not very important, because the Uranium that goes into a reactor isn't dangerous anyway. The worry with nuclear power is the transmutation of Uranium into short lived, highly radioactive isotopes of other elements. However the point remains that the quantities of waste involved in nuclear power are very much smaller than the quantities involved in producing power from chemical sources.

    Why do I care? I was six years old at the time of the Aberfan Disaster, the same age as many of the 116 children who died, suffocated under a slurry of waste from a coal mine after the collapse of a waste tip. The TV pictures of the time showed the gable end of the children's school. It was just like the one I attended and this upset me.

    I have never forgotten that quantity is a quality of waste. The waste from the coal mine might as well have been composed of perfectly safe, inert materials. It would not have made any difference. The children were buried and suffocated because there was so much of it, not because it was "dangerous" in the sense that the word is used today.

    by what metric is it considered environmentally friendly?
    Quantity.
  40. Re:Sadly, we've built a North American wasteland.. by aricusmaximus · · Score: 4, Informative
    I don't get where the angst at having to drive your car short distances is coming from...

    Studies find that suburban sprawl may bad for your health due to it's probable link to obesity. Not terribly surprising since you're driving most places instead of walking.

    If you don't want to use your car, you should have picked the area you live in better

    Fair argument, but you assume there was better choices to make near where the parent poster works.

    ...or make sacrifices so you can afford to live downtown somewhere with everything packed together.


    Nonsense and balderdash. This assumes that the only downtown spaces can be person (versus car) friendly. Space-gulping pedestrian unfriendly suburban planning (or lack thereof) is *not* a given. Alternative block design and the new trend of "traditional neighborhood development (TND) bring up alternatives to cul-de-sacs, mega-mall fortresses, and strip-mall hell.

    Besides, we're smart slash-dot readers, why should be feel compelled to be stuck with inferior choices when there's a possibility of smart design for our living and working communities?

  41. Geothermal Heat Pumps by Firethorn · · Score: 3, Informative

    My dad works for a heating/cooling company in Lincoln, NE, and they're putting these things in left and right. But from what I understand there are certain factors for the installation that makes it difficult to retrofit homes with it.

    Housing makers tend to be traditional. Now I've been looking at the concrete dome houses. I wish we weren't still building places using the old hundred year old stick built homes that were built that way because it was cheap.

    --
    I don't read AC A human right
  42. I have noted many times... by cr0sh · · Score: 3, Informative
    ...both here and on other forums - and have yet to see anyone tell me why it wouldn't work (I am not an engineer - I assume there are flaws with my idea):

    Cracking water/steam using solar furnaces - use the power-tower or similar concepts to first heat water to super-heated steam, then run the steam over red-hot iron (heated by the sun as well).

    As I have noted before, I don't know why this couldn't work - or why it works. All I know is that this was a major method of hydrogen production back in the 1800's for ballooning (aerostat racing and exhibitions) - super heated steam was passed over red-hot iron and cracked into hydrogen (and one assumes oxygen - it binds with the iron to make rust?) at fast enough rates to fill a balloon envelope. If it worked then it would work now. In fact, a variation of this is how we crack hydrocarbons into hydrogen at a refinery.

    I have proposed that a plant be built in Barstow/Daggett in California, near Boron. There used to be a technology marketed to bind the hydrogen to borax (similar to hydrate storage?) - making these "solid fuel" tablets of hydrogen - reacted in water (IIRC), the tablets would release hydrogen gas to run an engine, and heat (exothermic reaction) - and the water/precipitate (don't remember what the reaction created) could be recycled to create more "solid hydrogen" tablets (bonded hydrogen would be a better term).

    How many times do I need to post this idea - and when will I get an answer of why it won't work (I have a theory that there may be a practical reason - but I have yet to hear it)? Such a system of generating hydrogen would be mostly eco-safe: solar, water, and iron (scrap cars?) would be all that is needed, and a source of borax (hence the location for the plant - plenty of nearby borax, location on a fairly major trucking route to ship the resulting fuel, and plenty of sun year round for generation!).

    BTW - the test plants that were built in Barstow/Daggett - they routinely output 10+ megawatts, and used very little ground area for a solar plant (less than an airport - possibly even less than a conventional power plant)...

    Damn - why aren't we doing this!?

    --
    Reason is the Path to God - Anon
  43. Re:Does anyone actually have the PDF? by Anonymous+Freak · · Score: 3, Informative

    Yes, if you try to download it, it downloads a PDF that basically says "email me if you want a copy". I did, and he sent it within 15 minutes. I'm in the process of putting it on my website right now: Here

    (And as soon as I find an existing torrent for it, I'll join the stream.)

    --
    Another non-functioning site was "uncertainty.microsoft.com."
    The purpose of that site was not known.
  44. Where to download "Saving Energy without derision" by apzelic · · Score: 3, Informative

    My book "Saving Energy without Derision" can be accessed in the at several mirrors and by Bittorrent. Mirrors are posted at: http://www.zelicoff.com/SMLR/#PayPal_Line Bittorent file at: http://www.zelicoff.com/SMLR/SavingEnergy.torrent