U.S. Government Wants June Passenger Records

danwiz was one of several readers to point out the Associated Press story (carried here by the Boston Globe) which says that that the Transportation Security Administration plans to issue an emergency order requiring that U.S. airlines turn over passenger data for all June 2004 flights to the government within 40 days. "Such data may include credit card numbers, address, telephone number and meal request. Perhaps unrelated to terrorism, the data will be also tested to see if fraud or identity theft can be detected."

Comments

Comment period

[stoborrobots]

Hopefully, in the 30 day comment period, the airlines make some worthwhile objections...

Who am I kidding?

Re:Comment period

[andreMA]

Of course the passengers - the ones whose data is concerned - aren't invited to comment.

Keeping you on your toes

[EnronHaliburton2004]

Bush is losing his post-convention bounce. Kerry gave a great speech to open the last phase of the election.

Gee, we need a distraction! Let's remind the voters that they need to be scared. A terrorist might kill you and you child at any minute! Only Bush can save you!

Re:Keeping you on your toes

[Anonymous Coward]

Why is this flamebait? Bush has used fear quite successfully ever since September 11th. I'm sure all hard core Bush lovers (i.e. all Republicans) would disagree. They're I guess they're getting mod points, now. Of course, most of the Bush lovers are the ones saying, "They can have information about me. I've got nothing to hide."

Re:Keeping you on your toes

[davidsyes]

Who say's he's "my" president? I don't own him, nor would I ever claim his ass. He doesn't speak for me, only commit and condemn many people to global consequences for his inane, dangerous comments or embarrasses the country with his inept cliches. He may be anointed **THEE** president, but he is not **MY** president. (Notice the lack of capitalization here...)

When I was in the Navy, and topics about stupid or corrupt presidents came up, the Chiefs would scowl, "It's not the MAN you're defending and supporting! It's the POSITION!"

Well, that shit has GOT to change. Curious George could be in the seat of the Presidency, but a simian would not be any better nor any worse than what we have now. So, I argue, looking like a human and feigning vestiges of sentience do not a president make!

I'll only respect a president who is not given to arms deals, oil deals, executions-with-glee, or the like. We need a president who is hell-bent on DEFUSING, not destroying our opposers. Every system needs opponents, so long as they act only commensurate to what has been done to them. We tend to forget we did or brokered a SHITload of shady deals. Karma can be a BITCH. And we tend to forget that, too-- and often don't remember or recall that even when we get our asses kicked from time to time...

David Syes

You're right...

[bergeron76]

This gives them a "credible source" to be able to attribute your information to.

Seriously, they couldn't possibly arrest you as an "enemy of the state" just because you violated the Patriot Act/DMCA and were considered pseudo-potentially-suspicious by NSA, CIA, or FBI.

However, now that the "MCP^H^H^H Department of Homeland Security" is in place in conjunction with the "Transportation Saftey Administration", you can rest assured that travel information for June (and the months following) will ONLY be used for your protection.

Now move along Citizen...

... or our Gubment will open a can of "whatever-we-want-in-a-military-tribunal-exempt-of -your-constitutional-rights" on your Patriotic ass - you criminal, non-Christian punk.

(I have karma to burn, so if you think I'm trolling - bring it on... If there's ever been anything worth burning karma for in my lifetime, it's the future of the USA and the world in general. Even if you don't agree with my points, you owe it to yourself as a fellow intellectual to make the right decision in November [if you are or know a US Citizen] - VOTE!

What's a little profiling among friends?

[JohnnyNoSPAM]

What is so bad about the idea of establishing criteria for high risk passengers? Statistically speaking, I believe that the prominent threat to the airlines (notice I don't say "only") comes from Arab Muslim single males between the ages of 18 and 45. This criteria certainly fit all of the 9/11 terrorist hijackers. What is interesting is that although the article mentions that the post data would be turned over, it doesn't specifically state exactly how the government will use the data in terms of homeland security.

At any rate, though, I don't think that maintaining flexible profiles for high risk passengers is such a bad idea. Some passengers may be inconvenienced; however, if it will save lives, then I am quite willing for some people to end up having their feelings hurt.

Re:What's a little profiling among friends?

[renehollan]

It's posts like this that make it obvious just how it was that Hitler was able to round up Jews so easily.

Those that don't learn the mistakes of history are condemned to repeat them.

Re:What's a little profiling among friends?

[JohnnyNoSPAM]

Thank you for your insight, UP. The fact that some violent people have been named John is a coincidence. On the other hand, the fact that the 9/11 terrorists were a part of a polluted variant of Islam is not coincident. Islamic extremists *are* a genuine threat to the American people. This is not an imagined theory but rather a threat that has both been announced by terrorists and acted upon. They seek to strike again.

The hard part is that we have not the technology to distinguish people who hold a sincere devotion to Islam vice those whose minds have been polluted with animosity and extremism. Although on a much more broad scale, these terrorists are along the lines of the Christian terrorists who bomb abortion clinics. These so-called Christians do not reflect the whole of Christianity as do the Islamic extremists (terrorists) not reflect the whole of Islam. It is imperative that we closely monitor who is boarding our airlines. In my post, I did not recommend locking away everyone who is a Muslim. As a note, my sister and brother-in-law are Muslims. Finding the right balance of anticipating who is a threat and maintaining civil liberties can be a challenge. America is not about sending people to concentration camps, nor would I ever want to see our great nation go down that path.

Since we cannot read the hearts and intentions of people, we must use statistical data *in addition to* additional security measures to prevent terrorists from executing another event like 9/11. I truly regret that some people who are completely innocent and have nothing to do with the wrong doings of extremists will be scrutinized, but we must understand that these measures are being put in place as a reaction to a growing threat rather than as a measure simply for the government to find ways to encroach upon our daily lives. We are at war. There are people who would like to do us serious harm, and we must keep ourselves alert and not kid ourselves into thinking that religious faith or other statistical data is but a mere coincidence.

Re:What's a little profiling among friends?

[ballpoint]

When I was a child I saw a television series about the holocaust.

Terrified, I asked my father: "Dad, how come these people didn't leave Germany when they still could ?" He answered: "A lot did, but most wanted to stay near their family and didn't think it would become that bad."

Re:Interesting

[TRACK-YOUR-POSITION]

Question: does anything stop these airline companies from exchanging this information (other than the CC number, perhaps) with each other? Does it really make sense for us to fear giving to our elected officials information that we already allow unelected corporations to play with to their hearts content?

I think it's time we realize--what the U.S. government knows is a superset of what any American corporation knows. If you give any information to any corporation at all, you should just expect the government can get their grubby hands on it at will. There is no law requiring a corporation to withold information requested by the government--or even to tell customers such information has been requested--even if the government has no right to compel such a revelation.

What's a little profiling among friend and enemy?

[davidsyes]

"America learns from history."

Well, excuse the living hell out of ME.

If we learned, then why did we NOT follow the Israeli model, where agents capable of putting a bullet between your eyes in 3.4 seconds, and place agents on planes. Fly them ON DUTY. Fly cops coast to coast. The government can afford it by using funny money to get the tickets, let the airlines post the cash in the bank, and then the DOTreas at the end of the day retreives destroys or recirculates the genuine but tightly-controlled bills.

We COULD get the HELL OUT of foreign markets where living ruling elders despise or are are nonplussed by us. We COULD let the living KIDS decide 10 or 15 years from now where they want to be, rather that VOA telling them, trying to sidestep legit or illegit rulers, thereby PISSING them off and inducing them to conspire. While not a leader or elected official, Bin Laden, as twisted as he is, DOES show that some people will do anything to punish their own corrupt governments (adopted or not) for collaborating with America, from their perspective.

If "America learns", then why have we got bushes and rovers running the show? If America learns, why do we have city offices like San Jose costing HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS for taxpayers because cronism and back-scratching determines which vendors' equipment go into an office?

If Americans learn, then when will be the THIRD reported rape/molestation of Okinawa girls by uniformed US personnel? If America learns, why is it that we are so hated to the point that the sitting SElected president steadfastly refused to permit American uniformed personell stand trial in nations where captured and jailed for breaking local laws, and where we can execute criminals here when back home they may not have execution as an option, nor any reciprocal extradition treaties with the US?

We learn MY ASS! Except for tax bodies that figure out every goddamn taxable-transaction scenario, except for arms-deals-continuation, and the like, we learn SLOWLY.

There is a lot to love about America, but we STILL have lot of curdly, funky, inedible matter in the folds of our national skin. Like many molds, it WON'T go away until collectively we come clean, leave "markets" off-limits, stop barging our way into tribes' and villages' mores, and we stop financing corrupt or ineptly run airlines while enriching the CEOs who stay in power and get paid on CIVILIAN TAXES.

We learn? We DO. We do things with strings attached, almost always. We learn how to throw laws and contracts like Alien throws eggs in a hot, steamy cauldron of hell.

We have a LOT to learn.

David Syes