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NetBSD Goodies: 2.0 RC1 Tagged, New pkgsrc Branch

jschauma writes "The NetBSD Releng Team has announced that the first Release Candidate for NetBSD 2.0 (ie NetBSD-2.0_RC1) has been tagged. This is a major milestone in the much anticipated release of NetBSD 2.0: from now on, any pullups must address some form of show-stopping issue to even be considered. The NetBSD Project encourages all users to test the binary snapshots that will soon be available on the release engineering ftp server. If no pullups are necessary, then the 2.0 release should occur around the middle of October. Any fixes resulting in pullups will cause a second RC cycle to begin and add approximately 1-2 weeks more to the timeline." Further, "The NetBSD Packages team announced that a new pkgsrc-2004Q3 branch was created, and the freeze on committing to the pkgsrc trunk is now over. This branch, which includes a total of 4959 actively-maintained and supported packages, deprecates the last stable pkgsrc branch (pkgsrc-2004Q2); all maintenance will take place on this new pkgsrc-2004Q3 branch. Please see our online documentation of the NetBSD Packages Collection for details."

55 comments

  1. Cool! by torstenvl · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I'll be really interested to see what NetBSD 2.0 is like. It seems like FreeBSD gets all of the attention (and all of the user base); I myself use FreeBSD on my laptop. However, there are some benchmarks that place NetBSD above FreeBSD, and you certainly can't beat the hardware support! Imagine... I could put it on my SPARC and be in the exact same environment as I have on my x86 laptop!

    1. Re:Cool! by Shanep · · Score: 1

      I could put it on my SPARC and be in the exact same environment as I have on my x86 laptop!

      I have not used NetBSD much. I mostly use OpenBSD.

      So keep that in mind when I say...

      I hear a lot of people say that the user experience across architectures varies a lot with NetBSD. Even between popular archs like x86, macppc and sparc64.

      I use OpenBSD on those and find it very familiar on each, including the use of X.

      I can't wait for NetBSD 2.0 though.

      --
      War crimes, torture, lies, illegal spying... Would someone give Bush a blowjob, already, so he can be impeached?
    2. Re:Cool! by LizardKing · · Score: 2, Informative

      I hear a lot of people say that the user experience across architectures varies a lot with NetBSD. Even between popular archs like x86, macppc and sparc64.

      That's peculiar, as one of NetBSD's strengths is the consistency across platforms. I use it on machines as diverse as a VaxStation VLC, SparcStation 5 and a Dell laptop - the installation, configuration and use of NetBSD on all of them is identical. Of course, I wont be running Mozilla on the Vax, but it makes a great little webserver.

    3. Re:Cool! by Shanep · · Score: 1

      That's peculiar, as one of NetBSD's strengths is the consistency across platforms.

      Yes, that is what I thought prior to hearing the opposite. I'm too busy to back it up with any links, so I hereby retract the statement! ; )

      I wouldn't want to be the cause of any unfounded rumour, especially against any BSD.

      --
      War crimes, torture, lies, illegal spying... Would someone give Bush a blowjob, already, so he can be impeached?
  2. multi-platform by CaptainPinko · · Score: 1
    I could put it on my SPARC and be in the exact same environment as I have on my x86 laptop!

    As you could with FreeBSD, OpenBSD, and Linux I"m pretty sure. IIRC the point of constantly porting the NetBSD kernel is to make sure the code is flexible and robust and doesn't build-up any system dependent kludges. I'd consider the platform independence as a sign of good design rather than as a goal.

    --
    Your CPU is not doing anything else, at least do something.
    1. Re:multi-platform by 0racle · · Score: 3, Informative

      FreeBSD only supports sparc64 aka UltraSPARC not the earlier sparc chips. NetBSD seems to have the best support for both sparc32 and sparc64, with Linux distros in a close second only because they don't all seem to be updated as often, except debian which is your best bet for linux on a sparc. OpenBSD's sparc support is excellent except for SMP which hopefully will come sometime, it just doesn't seem to be much of a priority.

      --
      "I use a Mac because I'm just better than you are."
    2. Re:multi-platform by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Interesting trivia: the Linux kernel supports more CPU architectures than the NetBSD kernel.

    3. Re:multi-platform by he+who+meows · · Score: 1

      But does any comparable set of userland tools do so as well?

    4. Re:multi-platform by torstenvl · · Score: 3, Insightful

      From http://www.kernel.org/:
      "These days it also runs on (at least) the Compaq Alpha AXP, Sun SPARC and UltraSPARC, Motorola 68000, PowerPC, PowerPC64, ARM, Hitachi SuperH, IBM S/390, MIPS, HP PA-RISC, Intel IA-64, DEC VAX, AMD x86-64 and CRIS architectures."

      Check, check, check, check, check, dunno, check, in progress, in progress, check, check, nope (who needs Itanium? :-P), check, check, never heard of it.

      From http://www.netbsd.org/Releases/formal-1.6/NetBSD-1 .6.2.html:
      "The NetBSD operating system is a full-featured, open source, UNIX-like operating system descended from the Berkeley Networking Release 2 (Net/2), 4.4BSD-Lite, and 4.4BSD-Lite2. NetBSD runs on 52 different system architectures featuring 17 machine architectures across 11 distinct CPU families, and is being ported to more. The NetBSD 1.6.2 release contains complete binary releases for 40 different machine types."

      There are certainly some that Linux supports that NetBSD doesn't, but not many. And as far as sheer number, NetBSD wins hands down.

      Besides. At a certain point, you get past the serious marker, because you've exhausted all the common platforms. At that point, only one thing matters: Can I run *Nix on my Atari?

    5. Re:multi-platform by LizardKing · · Score: 3, Informative

      OpenBSD has ported the SMP work from NetBSD, giving it multiprocessor support in an amazingly short amount of time. I think this porting was largely the work of one programmer, which is some achievement. From postings on the OpenBSD Journal it appears that support is available for SMP on sparc and i386 at least.

    6. Re:multi-platform by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Pffth. The "system architectures" number that NetBSD likes to tout is not impressive. A system architecture typically needs a bit of specific bootup and maybe chipset specific setup code, perhaps a few constants changed, a system specific driver or two. Not to say that NetBSD supports more than Linux, but just that Linux probably has lost count and nobody cares anyway.

      A CPU ISA, now that is the important metric...
      Linux supports:
      alpha
      arm
      arm26
      cris
      h8300
      i386
      i a64
      m32r
      m68k (with and without an mmu)
      mips
      parisc
      ppc
      ppc64
      s390
      sh
      sh64
      sp arc
      sparc64
      v850
      x86-64

      NetBSD supports:
      alpha
      arm
      arm26
      i386
      m68k (with standard and a sun mmu)
      mips
      ns32k
      parisc
      ppc
      sh
      sh64
      sparc
      s parc64
      vax
      x86-64

      So the places you can run NetBSD but not Linux are on an old m68k from Sun, some old "ns32k" thing, and the old old vax. I'm sorry, but these are "who cares" systems *far* more than even ia64.

      The CPUs that you can run Linux on that NetBSD doesn't support are cris h8300 ia64 m32r ppc64 s390 v850. In other words, modern CPUs from embedded to "big iron" to G5 desktops.

      So the actual things that matter are: Can I run *Nix on my G5? My 512 CPU IA64 supercomputer? My POWER5 server? Or my handful of modern embedded CPU architectures? I really don't give a rat's ass about my Atari (although no doubt you can run Linux on that as well).

    7. Re:multi-platform by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh, and systems without mmus. NetBSD can't run on them.

    8. Re:multi-platform by OttoM · · Score: 3, Interesting
      OpenBSD 3.6 has SMP support for i386 and amd64. sparc is not supported. sparc and other platforms might get support in upcoming releases.

      Check the OpenBSD 3.6 page for other new things in the 3.6 release.

    9. Re:multi-platform by bodgit · · Score: 1

      There are certainly some that Linux supports that NetBSD doesn't, but not many. And as far as sheer number, NetBSD wins hands down.

      Also consider that the code base is a lot more portable too. I regularly crossbuild the entire base NetBSD OS for SuperH, MIPS, Sparc (both 32 & 64), etc. from Linux/i386 with a single command, I currently can't do that for Linux OOTB. (Would be great to do so).

    10. Re:multi-platform by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I like how you list CPU architectures, not platforms. Like there is absolutely no difference between an old 68K amiga and the Sun 3/260 I have downstairs?

      Adding support for a new CPU type in NetBSD is fairly easy... the code is clean and portable. I'm sure most of those processors could be easily supportable if there was sufficient desire, but personally, I don't even know what the "cris" processor is, and what machine runs the h8300 processor? Its more likely a matter of nobody having the hardware, or the time, to spend porting to a machine nobody has.

      With all the garbage I've had installed with "out of the box" linux installs, randomly changing the whole VM system in the middle of a "release" OS, and the like, I far prefer the stability of a release version of NetBSD. If it wasn't for having to power off my NetBSD server here at home to replace a failed 120GB drive a few weeks back, I'd have almost 2 years of uptime (the UPS helps ;-) ). We run RedHat at work on our servers, and besides the damn date problem (tell me again why exaclty uptime can't count over 250-some-odd days?), I've had more random crashes and poor VM behaviour on RedHat than I've ever had with NetBSD.

      2.0 has been a long time in coming, but I far prefer the NetBSD philosophy of "do it right, before you release it" rather than the seeming linux philosphy of "relese it, and we can always fix it later".

    11. Re:multi-platform by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I like how you list CPU architectures, not platforms. Like there is absolutely no difference between an old 68K amiga and the Sun 3/260 I have downstairs?

      Did you read what I said about system platforms. No, there usually isn't much difference. In the case of the 68k and the 68010, the mmu is different which is a bit more significant.

      Adding support for a new CPU type in NetBSD is fairly easy... the code is clean and portable. I'm sure most of those processors could be easily supportable if there was sufficient desire, but personally, I don't even know what the "cris" processor is, and what machine runs the h8300 processor? Its more likely a matter of nobody having the hardware, or the time, to spend porting to a machine nobody has.

      Yeah right buddy. They support vax but not ppc64 or ia64 or s390 ba ha ha.

      With all the garbage I've had installed with "out of the box" linux installs, randomly changing the whole VM system in the middle of a "release" OS, and the like, I far prefer the stability of a release version of NetBSD.

      Stop trying to change the subject. Linux supports more architectures than NetBSD.

      But if you really want to get into the VM thing, this should explain it for you.

    12. Re:multi-platform by ArbitraryConstant · · Score: 1

      IIRC, there was a request on misc@ for a dual processor G4 box.

      --
      I rarely criticize things I don't care about.
    13. Re:multi-platform by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Excuse me? not much of a difference between platforms? and how much kernel programming have you done? sure, 68K MMU management is basically the same (except in the case of the Sun MMU in some older boxes, etc), but interrupt controllers different, different I/O address locations, drivers, etc. Saying you support "68K" is like saying you support "cars"... sure, they have their similarities, but is that diesel or gas? 4-cyl, 6-cyl, 8-cyl, v-12, rotary? Can you fix my OnStar system?

      Oh, gee, last time I looked at the Linux/Vax port, it supported the VS3100's and the 4000's I think, but not much else. But wait, according to *you*, if you support VAX, you support all of VAX, right? So I can just grab Linux/VAX and load it on a vax 8600 and have it just work, right? Wait... why can't it find any I/O?? Oooooh.. you mean all the platforms *aren't* all identical?

      Oh, I have an old 68K based P-E 7350 unix box. Doesn't run NetBSD... only "Uniplus" (system-3)... but I guess I can just download Linux/68K and it will just fly on that box, right?

      Oh yeah, and I have a home-built 386 machine I've been working on... no PC Bios, no video (serial console only), my own custom firmware... I guess I should just download Linux/x86 and it'll just run... no programming needed eh? In fact, since its so easy for you, I could send it to you and you'll have linux up on it the next day, right?
      After all, there "usually isn't much difference".
      Hell, NUBus, PCI, EISA, ISA.. no difference.

      Having done OS work, saying you support "68K" is meaningless. Saying that is like saying you can run MacOS on an Amiga. Sorry, but the hardware differences between them are quite extreme. Sure, they use the same CPU... but thats about as far as it goes.

      Oh, and your VM argument made my point *exactly*. The reason the "new" VM failed so miserably, is that they didn't have the hardware to test on. So, if nobody working on NetBSD has access to an ia64 machine, I guess the fact that its not up on that platform isn't the same in your eyes? Just exaclty what model of IBM S390 do you have in your basement? I don't suppose that support is there in Linux because IBM helped with it, provided hardware to work on it, etc., do you?

      So, let me know when want to install Linux on my PE7350 machine.. I'm dying to see how it supports the Multibus graphics card and the Multibus MFM hard drive controller... oh, and the IEEE 488 bus on the back. From what you're telling me, I should just be able to boot and go... such minor differences.

    14. Re:multi-platform by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh, but if you are so inclined, I'm sure NetBSD would *love* to have someone donate a nice shiny IA64 or PPC64 box for someone to develop on... they are even 501c(3) now (non-profit organization, for you who may not sit on the board of one)... so you can write the value of the donation off on your taxes even.

    15. Re:multi-platform by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Excuse me? not much of a difference between platforms?

      That's right. Not compared to different ISAs.

      and how much kernel programming have you done?

      Maybe 2 years worth.

      sure, 68K MMU management is basically the same (except in the case of the Sun MMU in some older boxes, etc), but interrupt controllers different, different I/O address locations, drivers, etc.

      Yeah that's what I said - different chipset, pci setup and sometimes specialised drivers.

      As opposed to memory and process management, the executable file ABI, syscall interface that a new ISA requires.

      Saying you support "68K" is like saying you support "cars"... sure, they have their similarities, but is that diesel or gas? 4-cyl, 6-cyl, 8-cyl, v-12, rotary? Can you fix my OnStar system?

      Bullshit. I hate it when people drag out the car computer analogies.

      Oh, gee, last time I looked at the Linux/Vax port, it supported the VS3100's and the 4000's I think, but not much else. But wait, according to *you*, if you support VAX, you support all of VAX, right? So I can just grab Linux/VAX and load it on a vax 8600 and have it just work, right? Wait... why can't it find any I/O?? Oooooh.. you mean all the platforms *aren't* all identical?

      No, its just that nobody in Linux really cares about VAX.

      Linux supports ppc64, for example, and it was easy to support the G5 when it came out, the POWER5, etc. If we used the same beancounting as NetBSD, these would be considered amazing feats.

      Oh, I have an old 68K based P-E 7350 unix box. Doesn't run NetBSD... only "Uniplus" (system-3)... but I guess I can just download Linux/68K and it will just fly on that box, right?

      I don't know or care.

      Oh yeah, and I have a home-built 386 machine I've been working on... no PC Bios, no video (serial console only), my own custom firmware... I guess I should just download Linux/x86 and it'll just run... no programming needed eh? In fact, since its so easy for you, I could send it to you and you'll have linux up on it the next day, right?
      After all, there "usually isn't much difference".
      Hell, NUBus, PCI, EISA, ISA.. no difference.


      You are quite a sad chap.

      Having done OS work, saying you support "68K" is meaningless. Saying that is like saying you can run MacOS on an Amiga. Sorry, but the hardware differences between them are quite extreme. Sure, they use the same CPU... but thats about as far as it goes.

      blah

      Oh, and your VM argument made my point *exactly*. The reason the "new" VM failed so miserably, is that they didn't have the hardware to test on.

      It didn't fail so miserably. It failed on some workloads on large PAE systems. Probably systems that none of the free BSDs would even be able to boot.

      So, if nobody working on NetBSD has access to an ia64 machine, I guess the fact that its not up on that platform isn't the same in your eyes? Just exaclty what model of IBM S390 do you have in your basement? I don't suppose that support is there in Linux because IBM helped with it, provided hardware to work on it, etc., do you?

      You're the one spitting the dummy about Linux supporting more ISAs than NetBSD. It is no failing on their behalf, but they can't claim to be more portable than Linux - I don't claim that Linux has never had its virtual memory page scanner re-written in a stable series.

      So, let me know when want to install Linux on my PE7350 machine.. I'm dying to see how it supports the Multibus graphics card and the Multibus MFM hard drive controller... oh, and the IEEE 488 bus on the back. From what you're telling me, I should just be able to boot and go... such minor differences.

      Where did I tell you that you anus licker? I said porting to a new ISA is a much larger task than subsequently adding support for a new system architecture.

      How do you like them apples?

    16. Re:multi-platform by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Where did I tell you that you anus licker?"

      Ah, yes, the obligatory name calling. Probably the #1 reason I prefer the NetBSD boards, with their intelligent technical discussions. Not that there aren't some very good technical people working on Linux, mind you, but the mass of "flame baiters" has always annoyed me. After 20+ years doing OS level programming, I prefer a good technical discussion to childish emotional outbursts.

      I'm sure G5 is on its way, btw, since someone now has the hardware. Meanwhile, I'll get back to my latest project and let you find someone else to call silly names while I work on some disassembly listings to figure out some undocumented hardware devices on an existing "ISA" architecture.

    17. Re:multi-platform by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ah, yes, the obligatory name calling. Probably the #1 reason I prefer the NetBSD boards, with their intelligent technical discussions.

      Your "rebuttal" is ironically lacking any technical content.

      The #1 reason I prefer the Linux boards is that they don't make unfounded claims of superiority and conveniently ignore requests to substantiate such claims.

      Have a nice day.

    18. Re:multi-platform by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Very nice selective quoting. Just to set the record straight, you started hitting below the belt first, when you flat out lied in this comment:

      From what you're telling me, I should just be able to boot and go... such minor differences.

      Which is what my triggered my anus licker reply. You see how deserving you are of the insult?

  3. From a user and soon-to-be commiter by agent+dero · · Score: 4, Interesting

    For those of you that don't know, NetBSD 2.0 is going to be _awesome_

    I run -current on 3 machines (x86,sparc32,sparc64) and it's just cool. One of the features that come to mind (really don't think it's in 1.6.2) is FFS2 (FFS being their file system)

    SMP is still being worked on, I don't know about the status of the i386 port, but for sparc64, SMP is to the point where the kernel will spin up that second CPU.

    (Of course, we never paid a developer full time to hack SMP ::cough:: ::cough:: ;) [mods, it's a joke])

    --
    Error 407 - No creative sig found
    1. Re:From a user and soon-to-be commiter by bhima · · Score: 1
      I don't suppose you know if LKM has been improved...

      I've got a nice little Cobalt Qube 2 that is very under utilized due to the fact that it cannot load the PPTP module mppe, it fails with

      "Mmpe.o: ld: /usr/pkg/lkm/mppe.o: Not enough room for program headers (allocated 3, need 4)"

      --
      Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.
    2. Re:From a user and soon-to-be commiter by agent+dero · · Score: 1

      There seems to be evidence supporting the fact that LKM may be supported in the 2.0 release (if not already)
      here's a clue, see date

      Check on the port-cobalt page for more info, and if you feel really daring, sign up for the port-cobalt[at]netbsd.org mailing list ;)

      --
      Error 407 - No creative sig found
    3. Re:From a user and soon-to-be commiter by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      MP on i386 is solid in 2.0 (I run it in production). FFS2 however, on NetBSD is in early days - it won't really gain you much yet - it's not fully implemented (ACLs. etc).

    4. Re:From a user and soon-to-be commiter by LizardKing · · Score: 4, Informative

      I'm running -current on sparc, vax and i386. I also thought about putting it onto my NeXTstation, but I'd miss NeXTstep too much.

      FFS2 is not totally trustable yet, although I do use it on my laptop. As for SMP, it now works on a number of ports including i386. I'm sure I also saw someone mention that it could spin up a second processor on an SMP Vax(!) machine. On the more popular SMP ports (i386, sparc, sparc64) the SMP support actually *uses* the extra processors as well as recognising them.

      The other big feature in NetBSD 2.0 is the native threading support. This is based on scheduler activations, which is far more scalable than more common threading implementations. It took a while to get stable, but has uncovered numerous bugs in multithreaded applications. This is because the pthread implementation that sits on top of scheduler activations was quite exacting in it's conformance to the POSIX specification. This meant that sloppy thread programming that was acceptable on other platforms showed up more readily on NetBSD.

      The only outstanding issue that I ahve with thr release candidates is that gdb seems to be a bit flaky. This may be a problem with missing support for SA threading, but it's not something that I have any time to look into.

    5. Re:From a user and soon-to-be commiter by bhima · · Score: 1
      I've memorized the port-cobalt page and I already subscribe to many NetBSD mailing lists.

      Thanks tho....

      --
      Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.
    6. Re:From a user and soon-to-be commiter by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      SMP works perfectly fine on i386. I've been wanting to get rid of this FreeBSD 5.3 piece of shit for a long time. Thank you, NetBSD.

      Turbo Smorgreff

    7. Re:From a user and soon-to-be commiter by noselasd · · Score: 1

      >The other big feature in NetBSD 2.0 is the native threading support.
      >This is based on scheduler activations, which is far more scalable than
      >more common threading implementations.
      Just cause it has a cool name, does that make it better ?
      Where are the benchmarks backing your claims.

      If it's just about the mixing of scheduling in both user and kernel space,note that Solaris has this and is moving away from it. IBM made NGPT a m:n thread library for linux, but the new NPTL (kernel space only scheduling) outperformed it.

    8. Re:From a user and soon-to-be commiter by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The problem for the other architectures compared to NetBSD concerning scheduler activations is the fact that NetBSD has a smaller and cleaner core.
      This is the same reason NetBSD is so simple to port; as a *BSD programmer I can tell you that NetBSD code is so clean you can eat it.

      I'm not using NetBSD, I only code for it, but with the release of 2.0 I will move away some of our production machines from FreeBSD. I love FreeBSD, it's what I use, but the code is no where near as clean.

      I don't really want to mention Linux, because it's butt ugly dirty code in about 95% of the code you look at, it's an achivement that it works at all; it's a complete wonder that it works so well as it does, probably the huge amount of involuntary(unknowing) testers that does the trick.

      NetBSD and DragonflyBSD is probably the perfect mix for the future, as far as I'm concerned. But I dubt that it will happen at the level I want it to.

    9. Re:From a user and soon-to-be commiter by LizardKing · · Score: 2, Informative

      Solaris has a poor threading implementation, even Sun's own engineers admit that. However, that shouldn't be taken as proof that all M:N implementations are poor. In a demonstration at BSDCon Japan 2003, NetBSD's scheduler activations outperformed FreeBSD 5 and Linux NPTL. See the tech-misc mailing list thread that starts from here: http://news.gw.com/netbsd.tech.misc/701.

  4. oddness with ipf 4.1.3 and 2.0_BETA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    I have a few 2.0_BETA machines doing NAT and running squid - I rebuilt one after the ipf 4.1.3 update (couple of weeks ago-ish) and NAT stopped working properly - for example, a webpage that pushed the user through from http to https would never get to the https page. The was other odd brokenness with NAT too, but this one stood out for the users :/

    I moved the machine back to a build a couple weeks before that, before the 4.1.3 update - no problems so far. (Nothing else changed on the machines, though I did try a squid update to the latest in pkgsrc, no help). ipfstat looks fine, too...

    I can't really help debug this with this machine as I need it working working 100% of the time. However if anyone has suggestions, I will consider them.

    Having said that, the 2.0_BETA machines I have at home (running a build with 4.1.3 in it) do not have this problem. Quite odd.

    Note, when I say "rebuild" above I am keeping userland and kernel in sync (crucial when something like ipf is updated anyway), plus etcupdate-ing.

    1. Re:oddness with ipf 4.1.3 and 2.0_BETA by LizardKing · · Score: 2, Informative

      Did you rebuild both the kernel and userland after the ipfilter update? I couldn't get NAT working until my userland was back in sync with the kernel.

    2. Re:oddness with ipf 4.1.3 and 2.0_BETA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes I did, of course, as I said "I am keeping userland and kernel in sync". I build userland, install it, then build a kernel, etcupdate and reboot, always.

  5. New logo? by Zetta+Matrix · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I want to see the new logo already. They announced the contest about six months ago... how long does it take to choose a logo, even with open source bureaucracy? :)

    1. Re:New logo? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      perhaps, all will be revealed with the release - wouldn't that be niftier?

  6. Changelog by ozzmosis · · Score: 2, Informative

    Here is the Changelog from 1.6 to 2.0

  7. Re:Go NetBSD! by chrysalis · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    I you want an evolution of FreeBSD that really makes steps forward instead of adding a pile of hacks on old code, try DragonflyBSD iinstead.

    --
    {{.sig}}
  8. Timing the Releases of the BSDs by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Is it just me, or is there something afoot here?

    OpenBSD releases a new version every 6 months, like clockwork and uses the $ from selling the CDs to further the development. Of course, it it freely downloadable from a bazillion sites. May, November, May, November. Then both FreeBSD and NetBSD are on the edges of releases that may cause some to try them instead of OpenBSD. Is there jealousy, or enmity or evil going on?

    This sounds silly, but hey, the big boys time their releases and we all know how microsoft and cisco announce vaporware that knocks off sales until the small start-up goes under.

    Maybe this should go under Conspiracy

    1. Re:Timing the Releases of the BSDs by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Your suspicion is just wrong.
      If you see the relase process of FreeBSD and NetBSD closely,
      you can see that they tried to release more earlier,
      but the release process is taking longer than they hoped.

      But it's true that it's worth trying them instead of OpenBSD.
      Because FreeBSD and NetBSD already have some important kernel
      features like UBC and kernel supported pthread, etc.
      Because OpenBSD doesn't have UBC, it cannot use free physical
      memory for file cache, so many RAM may be just wasted under
      OpenBSD.
      Because OpenBSD doesn't have kernel supported pthread, it
      cannot drive more than one CPU under threaded applications
      on SMP or hyperthreading or multicore machines.
      And for security, both FreeBSD and NetBSD are more secure
      than OpenBSD by default. You can see that by using nmap
      against newly installed machines.

    2. Re:Timing the Releases of the BSDs by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And for security, both FreeBSD and NetBSD are more secure than OpenBSD by default. You can see that by using nmap against newly installed machines.

      AFAIK neither FreeBSD nor NetBSD support random dynamic library addresses, random malloc and mmap, random i-node allocation, propolice in kernel and userland, chrooted apache, and many other goodies that come out of the box with OpenBSD.

      nmap 3.70 can't even tell that my box runs OpenBSD, and it's a run off the mill 3.5 GENERIC server. Sorry pal, you may not like other OpenBSD features like lack of proper threading, but when it comes to security it's a no brainer: OpenBSD is *the* choice.

      Turbo Smorgreff

    3. Re:Timing the Releases of the BSDs by torstenvl · · Score: 1

      What? FreeBSD doesn't support chrooted Apache?

      That's funny. uname must be lying to me.

    4. Re:Timing the Releases of the BSDs by krog · · Score: 1

      OpenBSD is secure, but so is NetBSD. I have been running NetBSD continuously on MITnet (a high-profile network with frequent hacker attacks) since 1997 and I have been hacked exactly 0 times. Not saying I would have been hacked with OpenBSD, but zero breaches in seven years is a pretty compelling record (especially when I compare to my Red Hat-using friends).

  9. NetBSD 2.0: REAL ULTIMATE POWER by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    For those of you that don't know, NetBSD 2.0 is going to be _awesome_
    This news is all about unix, REAL UNIX. This release is awesome. My name is Robert and I can't stop thinking about NetBSD 2.0. This release is cool; and by cool, I mean totally sweet.

    Facts:

    1. NetBSD 2.0 is descended from Berkeley's CSRG.
    2. NetBSD 2.0 runs ALL the time.
    3. The purpose of NetBSD 2.0 is to flip out and kill people.

    I heard that there was this server running NetBSD 2.0 at an ISP. And when some dude tried installing Windows the NetBSD box killed the whole datacenter. My friend Mark said that he saw NetBSD 2.0 totally uppercut some kid just because the kid ran OpenBSD.
  10. BSD Trilogy by bsd4me · · Score: 2, Informative

    Has anyone else noticed that the three major BSD variants are all going to have major releases within about two weeks of each other?

    FreeBSD 5.3 is scheduled for a Oct 17 release. NetBSD 2.0 is scheduled for a mid-October release. OpenBSD 3.6 is scheduled for a Nov 1 release.

    Hmmm?

    --

    (S(SKK)(SKK))(S(SKK)(SKK))

    1. Re:BSD Trilogy by ArbitraryConstant · · Score: 1

      OpenBSD's done releases on every May 1st and Nov 1st for years... They didn't do it. :)

      NetBSD and FreeBSD tend to release when what they're working on is ready. Must be their doing. :)

      --
      I rarely criticize things I don't care about.
    2. Re:BSD Trilogy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, too bad FreeBSD 5.3 is a fucking piece of shit.

      Darling Smorgav

  11. NetBSD is dying by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    It is now official. Netcraft confirms: *BSD is dying

    One more crippling bombshell hit the already beleaguered *BSD community when IDC confirmed that *BSD market share has dropped yet again, now down to less than a fraction of 1 percent of all servers. Coming on the heels of a recent Netcraft survey which plainly states that *BSD has lost more market share, this news serves to reinforce what we've known all along. *BSD is collapsing in complete disarray, as fittingly exemplified by failing dead last in the recent Sys Admin comprehensive networking test.

    You don't need to be the Amazing Kreskin to predict *BSD's future. The hand writing is on the wall: *BSD faces a bleak future. In fact there won't be any future at all for *BSD because *BSD is dying. Things are looking very bad for *BSD. As many of us are already aware, *BSD continues to lose market share. Red ink flows like a river of blood.

    FreeBSD is the most endangered of them all, having lost 93% of its core developers. The sudden and unpleasant departures of long time FreeBSD developers Jordan Hubbard and Mike Smith only serve to underscore the point more clearly. There can no longer be any doubt: FreeBSD is dying.

    Let's keep to the facts and look at the numbers.

    OpenBSD leader Theo states that there are 7000 users of OpenBSD. How many users of NetBSD are there? Let's see. The number of OpenBSD versus NetBSD posts on Usenet is roughly in ratio of 5 to 1. Therefore there are about 7000/5 = 1400 NetBSD users. BSD/OS posts on Usenet are about half of the volume of NetBSD posts. Therefore there are about 700 users of BSD/OS. A recent article put FreeBSD at about 80 percent of the *BSD market. Therefore there are (7000+1400+700)*4 = 36400 FreeBSD users. This is consistent with the number of FreeBSD Usenet posts.

    Due to the troubles of Walnut Creek, abysmal sales and so on, FreeBSD went out of business and was taken over by BSDI who sell another troubled OS. Now BSDI is also dead, its corpse turned over to yet another charnel house.

    All major surveys show that *BSD has steadily declined in market share. *BSD is very sick and its long term survival prospects are very dim. If *BSD is to survive at all it will be among OS dilettante dabblers. *BSD continues to decay. Nothing short of a miracle could save it at this point in time. For all practical purposes, *BSD is dead.

    Fact: NetBSD is dying

  12. I2 Land Speed Record: NetBSD did it again. :-) by ulib · · Score: 1
    From NetBSD's website :

    NetBSD does it again. After the original Internet2 Land Speed Record set in 2004 May 3 was broken, NetBSD shines again: researchers at the Swedish University Network (SUNET) have broken once more the Internet2 Land Speed Record, using the upcoming version, NetBSD 2.0.

    The new records are 124.935 Pbmps in a single stream (was 69.073 Pbmps), and 122.367 Pbmps in multiple streams. NetBSD was used once more due to the "scalability of its TCP code".

    More information about this record including the NetBSD configuration can be found here for single stream and here for multiple streams. And here is the website of the Internet2 Land Speed Record (I2-LSR) competition.

  13. Make that RC3, actually by hubertf · · Score: 1

    There was some nasty NFS glitch n RC2, which led to RC3.

    - Hubert