Celsius 41.11: A Rebuttal to Michael Moore

deezl writes "Michael Moore released a controversial movie revealing 'facts' about the Bush Presidency. A new rebuttal has just been released called Celsius 41.11. I would think that time sensitive political commentaries would be available for download to ensure the widest possible distribution base. If documentary makers are so interested in getting their message out and arguments across, why not encourage free BitTorrent type distribution for their movies?"

Comments

Re:Other antidotes to "Fahrenheit 9/11"

[BoomerSooner]

Regardless of any liberties taken by Michael Moore the point of the documentary is valid. Bush started a war for profit not liberty.

In the end people who support the war should go fight the damn thing. I'm tired of all these stupid fucking republicans in my state backing bush and like him, saying the war is good but not participating themselves.

It's high time we let people vote for or against war. All those for the war go into the draft pool, all those against do not. I doubt people would be so pro-war if their ass were on the front line.

Note: 1/2 my family is in the military, both my grandparents have purple hearts from WWII and I have 3 uncles who fought in Vietnam. Of course my Father (a Republican) is pro-war, however he (like our schmuck in chief) avoided Vietnam for himself. Hypocrites amaze me.

two welcomed movies

[edalytical]

Anyone that wants to refute Moore's film is really missing the point of the film. That being said the rebuttals are just a necessary as the original film.

Let me explain. Once you look past Mr. Moore's biased you'll see that the film is doing nothing more than asking the question that should have been asked by the media we already have in place. The media failed to do so, thus we have Moore's film filling in where they came up short. Does he get somethings wrong? Your goddamn right he does, but it doesn't mean we should ignore him completely.

Now the same can be said for the rebuttal. Moore's obviously put his own spin on things (as he should) after all, all he's doing is connecting dots to make a point. He most likely went overboard with some of his assumptions. Now I haven't seen the new movie yet, but lets hope it fills the holes in Moore's movie and is not just an outright attack on Moore (I hope this makes my own biased completely clear).

This shouldn't have to be said, but everyone should watch both movies and then make up their own minds.

In between

[dpilot]

There's doing nothing. (What happened)
There's running around in a panic. (What is suggested here as THE alternative.)

Then again...

I got the official 9/11 report for my birthday. I haven't had time to read it, but I have cracked it a little. I've also read another minute-by-minute account of the morning of 9/11, backed up by source links.

The *real* crime of 9/11 had nothing to do with Bush, but rather with the link between the FAA and NORAD. FAA rules state that NORAD is to be notified immediately of all hijackings. There was a delay of nearly 1/2 hour between recognition of the first hijacking and NORAD acknowledgement. (This is from the other report, I need to verify this in the 9/11 report.)

Next, in that first hour or so after the hijacking there appeared to be mass confusion between ATC and NORAD. There was uncertainty about how many hijackings, who should be looking where for what, etc. (Still from the other report.)

Finally, within the space of a few minutes, the first jet hit the WTC, and the other 3 jets were hijacked. (From the 9/11 report) We were a half-hour into the confusion, with another half-hour to go, by which time the whole thing was pretty well over, except for the shouting.

I don't know if anything could have been done to stop the first jet, after the hijacking. Ignoring the intelligence leading up to 9/11 is a different issue. But about the time one jet has crashed into a building and 3 more are known hijacked, we should have been into Full Response, instead of confusion.

What would I want Bush to have done? Put someone in Charge. He was probably too far out of the loop, in Florida. But he should have put someone in Charge to tie together ATC, NORAD, and whoever else was appropriate.

But then again, the famed 7-minute pause was *after* the 2nd jet crashed into the WTC. So even had he calmly stood up, excused himself, and taken/delegated control, it was too late. There's some question about whether or not he heard about the first jet hitting the WTC prior to entering the school. There's some question about those in the White House delaying feeding him info for 10 minutes or so. The findings: "A Failure of Imagination." Whatever happened to Truman's, "The Buck Stops Here?"

The machine called "The US Government" had multiple failures that day. In fact, the only correct, effective response was by passengers. Grounding all air traffic was correct, and might have been effective had there been more jets-as-missiles planned, and did serve to restart air traffic with better security.

Back to Moore... It's so fun to tear down 1-800 vs 1-888, and Enlisted vs Officers, etc that we just lose track of the other points where the facts were less tilted and more clear. The less disputed facts raise perhaps the more important questions, yet recieve little focus.

But then that's been the way of this whole election cycle.

Re:You mean it's NOT true???

[cryptochrome]

Contrary to your sig, Bush never claimed Saddam was linked to 9/11.
He and his administration just insinuated it at every possible opportunity.