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Resin Released Under GPL

Posted by CowboyNeal on from the choices-are-good dept.

JohnA writes "I can't believe this hasn't received more attention than it has, but Caucho Software released their award-winning Java application server Resin under the GPL. This means that you are no longer bound to Tomcat and its less-than-stellar performance when deploying Java-based web apps."

50 comments

  1. Hmm... by klui · · Score: 4, Informative

    From 3.0.9's description:...

    "The Resin distribution for 3.0.9 has been refactored into two distributions:

    * Resin Professional - Most companies and organizations will use Resin Professional. Includes performance, caching, and clustering capabilities.
    * Resin Open Source (GPL) - Contains all functional components of Resin, including EJB, but excludes performance and clustering capabilities. "

    So, it looks like not all of Resin's performance is in the Open Source version. It would be interesting if someone were to compare the performance of Tomcat vs Resin Open Source.

    1. Re:Hmm... by zaqattack911 · · Score: 4, Informative

      Yeah I hate half assed gpl where they claim you're running a rechid turd of a server if you don't have the pro version.

      Clustering I can understand they don't include in the GPL version. But caching? doesn't tomcat at least do some caching.

      And what does "excludes performance" mean? wtf.. they took their mature software and "removed" performance from it? Sounds like BS.

      Maybe they just run a bunch of Thread.sleep() calls randomly in their code in the GPL version :)

      --Etan

    2. Re:Hmm... by rixdaffy · · Score: 2, Insightful


      well, since it's GPL... wouldn't it be funny if the community decides to fork the opensourced code to include their own version of caching and clustering.

      I worked a lot with resin at my previous job and the caching is pretty good & useful.

      I don't think Tomcat does much caching... only caching of jsp compiled code, but I having a jsp engine which doesn't do that is unworkable.

      Now that I think of it, if I remember correctly, the resin source was always available. Maybe it's just that they changed the license of it...

      Ricardo.

    3. Re:Hmm... by klui · · Score: 1

      Note that the description says that the Pro version has performance, caching, and clustering. The OSS version does not have performance and clustering. This statement would imply that caching is included. I would have lumped performance and caching together, but maybe their marketing department felt otherwise.

    4. Re:Hmm... by dtfinch · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Even php has performance features removed. It keeps Zend in the business of selling products to make php faster.

    5. Re:Hmm... by sprins · · Score: 1

      I've been using Resin for a couple of years now. Without the caching and clustering since I have my own caching mechanism and don't need clustering.

      That said I can recommend Resin to anyone (that needs an app-server or a servlet container) for its performance and (now with the new Linux NPTL threads) also scalability. I've been making websites with Java (first on OS/2) since 1998 and have used quite a few app servers until I ran into Resin 2 or 3 years ago. Haven't thought about looking any further since.

      BTW, since I'm a paying customer I have no idea what they mean by "performance capabilities"

    6. Re:Hmm... by sprins · · Score: 1

      Well, since it is open-source now you may want to remove those random Thread.sleep() calls yourself.

    7. Re:Hmm... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      they claim you're running a rechid turd of a server

      You know, I've read this bit over and over, and I'm still not sure what you meant by "rechid". My best guess is that you meant wretched. Am I right?

    8. Re:Hmm... by Tet · · Score: 1
      It would be interesting if someone were to compare the performance of Tomcat vs Resin Open Source.

      Having evaluated Resin as a possible replacement for our current Tomcat setup, we found it to be about half the speed of Tomcat[1]. So Resin without the performance bits would be very slow indeed. It's also worth noting that Resin is apalling in terms of being shipped in a deployable state (it isn't). We needed to write decent start/stop scripts, and move the logs to somewhere sensible, for example.

      [1] FWIW, our developers saw a 5x speed increase when using Resin in a lab environment. But we saw exactly the opposite when we tried to move it out of the lab.

      --
      "The invisible and the non-existent look very much alike." -- Delos B. McKown
    9. Re:Hmm... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Bah, I was wondering that too, spoiled the mystery, you did. But I vote for "Rechid" becoming a word - "Re-khhh-id". Who's with me?

  2. Who ever said Java was slow? by Johnny+Doughnuts · · Score: 4, Informative

    http://www.caucho.com/resin-3.0/features/jspvsperl php.xtp

    Keep this in mind when reading those benchmarks:

    The server is a 266 Mhz Pentium II running RedHat 6.0 with 64 meg of ram. The client is a 300 Mhz Celeron also running RedHat 6.0 with 32 meg. The two machines are connected with a 100bT ethernet connection.

    I'm considering deploying this on my person webserver now.

    1. Re:Who ever said Java was slow? by Unordained · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Indeed. Java, which compiles to native cpu byte code, is apparently faster than perl and php, which don't (that I've heard of.) I didn't see any CGI/C tests nor mod_my_custom_code/apache. Valid tests here, but more comprehensiveness would have been nice. Anyone have that for me? (Nope, not language trolling today. Honest question.)

    2. Re:Who ever said Java was slow? by Kingpin · · Score: 2, Informative

      Those stats are for Resin 1.1 and JDK 1.1.8.. We're several generations down the road bub.

      --
      Unable to read configuration file '/bigassraid/htdig//conf/14229.conf'
      Geocrawler error message.
    3. Re:Who ever said Java was slow? by 'The+'.$L3mm1ng · · Score: 1

      Well, I installed the new Resin on Windows, and beside the fact that I didn't get it to work with Apache (it ignored the document root I had set), compilation took ages. Since I am developing and not only viewing the stuff, fast compilation is very important for me. PHP is lightyears faster here. Having said that, I am using an old Athlon 700. I could upgrade to get better performance, yet Java would always be slower than PHP, if you regard the compilation time as well.

    4. Re:Who ever said Java was slow? by Hast · · Score: 1

      Who would ever be stupid enough to actually code a website in C? You may as well go with Brainfuck while you're at it. It seems (to me) that valid competition is from Perl and PHP on the OSS side and .NET on the Windows side.

      Sure you could make a custom mod in C/C++ for apache but I doubt you'd win that much performance and it'd be a bitch to code. Why not do your own HTTP server while you're at it?

    5. Re:Who ever said Java was slow? by Unordained · · Score: 1

      In other words, you don't know what the difference is, and you've fallen prey to the idea that C/C++ are hard to code? You're right though -- anytime you code anything in C, you should recode everything else too. Maybe the same should be true of PHP and Perl, too.

    6. Re:Who ever said Java was slow? by consumer · · Score: 2, Informative

      This benchmark is both ancient and wrong. I can't speak for the PHP code, but the mod_perl code is not done in the way that an experienced mod_perl programmer would do it, and thus does not demonstrate the best performance mod_perl can give in this situation. It would be better to look at this benchmark instead.

    7. Re:Who ever said Java was slow? by consumer · · Score: 1

      Actually, Perl and PHP do compile to their own opcode trees which get cached (by default in Perl or with an "accelerator" in PHP). Despite the flawed benchmark shown here, mod_perl is faster than Caucho. See this benchmark for more.

    8. Re:Who ever said Java was slow? by ttfkam · · Score: 1

      Why do I get the feeling that your cited benchmark started a JVM and immediately started hitting it? The server JVMs with Hotspot need warmup time so that they can do their code analysis. Since servers generally run for extended periods of time (months?), this is not an unfair requirement for testing.

      --

      - I don't need to go outside, my CRT tan'll do me just fine.
    9. Re:Who ever said Java was slow? by consumer · · Score: 1

      Not correct. The benchmark ran Resin for several minutes. You can download the code and run it yourself, or e-mail the author of the benchmark with any questions you may have. A company I used to work for sent Caucho a correction for their benchmark code years (literally) ago and they wrote back acknowledging that they know very little about mod_perl, but they never updated the benchmark page.

  3. I didn't think Tomcat was an app server... by BeatdownGeek · · Score: 5, Informative

    I didn't think Tomcat was really considered an app server, since Tomcat doesn't support EJBs. Tomcat is just a "Servlet/ JSP container," which JBoss happens to use now in its app server.

    Shouldn't this be compared to JBoss or Sun's app server (I forget what they call it)?

    1. Re:I didn't think Tomcat was an app server... by yngv · · Score: 1
      My understanding (and quick Google search) is that an application server is just that: a server that runs dynamic applications (as opposed to just static HTML). Tomcat definitely runs applications (aka servlets), just not EJB applications (natively). Apache+PHP/Perl/[scripting engine] qualify as application servers as well. It may be better to refer to JBoss/Resin as EJB application servers, or EJB containers. But Resin is so dirt simple to install and use as a plain application server* that it competes with Tomcat at that level.

      * I last used Resin in it's 2.0.x era. Not sure about 3.x

    2. Re:I didn't think Tomcat was an app server... by chickenwing · · Score: 2, Informative
      I don't think the definition of app server is "something that runs EJBs". You seem to be confusing one solution with a general concept.

      From The Free On-line Dictionary of Computing (27 SEP 03) [foldoc]:

      application server

      1. A {designer}'s or {developer}'s suite of {software} that helps {programmers} isolate the {business logic} in their {programs} from the {platform}-related code. {Application} {servers} can handle all of the {application} {logic} and {connectivity} found in {client-server} {applications}. Many {application} {servers} also offer features such as {transaction management}, {clustering} and {failover}, and {load balancing}; nearly all offer {ODBC} support.

      {Application} {servers} range from small {footprint}, web-based {processors} for intelligent appliances or remote {embedded} devices, to complete environments for assembling, deploying, and maintaining {scalable} {multi-tier} applications across an {enterprise}.
  4. its been a few years since I used it by lobsterGun · · Score: 0


    Resin was a working servlet/JSP engine while Tomcat was still just a wet dream.

    My company used it in an EBJ product I was working on at the time. It was a pleasure to work with.

    I'm glad it's GPLd now it might get the recognition it deserves.

    1. Re:its been a few years since I used it by Kingpin · · Score: 1

      Uh.. I used JServ 0.91, the foundation for Tomcat (ignoring Sun's "donation"), in 1998. When did you use Resin?

      --
      Unable to read configuration file '/bigassraid/htdig//conf/14229.conf'
      Geocrawler error message.
    2. Re:its been a few years since I used it by lobsterGun · · Score: 1

      It's been while. I want to say it was around that time.

  5. No JNDI ? by zaqattack911 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    This page seems to imply there is no JNDI in the GPL version... how can you do ejbs and all that stuff with no JNDI ?

    have a look here: http://caucho.com/index.xtp

    Under " Resin® Professional" it explicitly says "JNDI" support, hinting that the GPL version doesn't include it.

    Can someone confirm/deny this?

    1. Re:No JNDI ? by JohnA · · Score: 4, Informative

      JNI, not JNDI.

      Resin uses a custom JNI I/O library to increase performance. This component is not included in the GPL'ed version.

      Both releases allow JNDI.

  6. Java S&M? by BigLinuxGuy · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I never really considered myself bound to TomCat or any other servlet engine or application server (not to mention Java). There are too many options for Java and other languages for anyone with any sense to feel that way. JBoss, Apache Geronimo, sort of leap to mind as alternative J2EE app servers, likewise PHP, Python, and Perl all have quite workable (and scalable) application server capabilities behind a web server (just ask, er, Slashdot).

    These days I'm more interested in looking for ways to insulate myself and my customers from disruptive technologies rather than tie myself to a single solution. The OMG's MDA has promise, but to realize that approach requires tools to support it. AndroMDA will kick out Java, but little else. I'm just wondering when a group of software engineers will get together and create an Open Source MDA suite that allows language generators to be plugged in. Once those tools are in place and support any language (or have the capability to do so), the promise of MDA can be realized. Until then, I guess we have to type code the old fashioned way. :-(

    Remember the tired old adage, when the only tool you have in your toolbelt is a hammer, the whole world looks like a nail. Master craftsmen have a number of tools and techniques at their disposal and don't have to settle for a single approach.

  7. He did his time by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Resin did some time and he was a model prisoner, why shouldn't he be released? Sure the GPL restrictions are hard to live with, but at least he's free.

  8. Tomcat catching up? by crisco · · Score: 3, Interesting

    According to this guy, Tomcat 5 is faster than Resin 3 and Resin supposedly has some compatibility issues. Resin 2.x turned in a mixed performance.

    --

    Bleh!

    1. Re:Tomcat catching up? by teorem · · Score: 1

      We (Kelkoo R&D) did recently a study of the performance of several servlet engines, including the last releases for Tomcat, Jitty and Resin. Tomcat and Jitty were the faster and the more robust. Jitty was a bit faster than Tomcat. Tomcat was a bit more robust then Jitty when stress-tested. I hope that GPLing Resin will make people enhance its performances.

    2. Re:Tomcat catching up? by jrumney · · Score: 1

      The performance benchmarks on the Resin website are way out of date. I did some testing of my own years ago (Tomcat 3.1 days). Resin was faster than any other servlet engine out there, but its failure mode was catastrophic, so we chose to go with iPlanet instead (which came second in raw performance, and just kept on going as we piled on more users). Interestingly, Tomcat had the lowest performance of all the servers we tested, but it was the only other server still going at the end of the tests. It would be interesting to try the test again, now that Tomcat performance has gone through a few iterations of tweaking, and WebSphere and WebLogic have matured while iPlanet was left to stagnate.

    3. Re:Tomcat catching up? by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 2, Informative

      The pre 4.0 versions of Tomcat where the so called "Servlet API reference implementations". Tehy where merly showcases how the specs are supposed to work.

      Tomcat is a serious Servlet engine since 4.1x and a pretty fast (more or less complete rewrite) since 5.0.

      As far as I know Tomcat 5.x is now in the top leage of server performance in serving static and dynamic content (faster than Apache).

      angel'o'sphere

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
  9. cool! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I always recommend Resin for Java stuff. This makes it all that much easier to recommend to folks who are allergic to non-open-source products.

    Of course, I've graduated from Java for most projects since I've discovered a much nicer language, but for those big grunt-team projects Java still has it's place.

    1. Re:cool! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Java still has it's place.

      "its".

  10. please use understandable language by TakaIta · · Score: 1
    ....its less-than-stellar performance....

    What the hack is that supposed to mean? Is "stellar performance" something good, or something bad? And is "less-then-stellar" then something good or something bad. I am sorry, but the meaning of this phrase escapes me.

    wordreference says "stellar" means "leading" or "starring". It still makes no sense.

    Can we please use language that is understandable by more people then just the author and his friends?

    1. Re:please use understandable language by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You are a fucking moron. Since I've already been pissed off by others of your kind this morning, here's a fucking clue:

      By your own definition lookup, stellar means 'leading'. So less-than-stellar would mean, by simple fucking substitution, less-than-leading. As in less than the fastest. As in, once again, you are a FUCKING MORON.

      See how simple that was? Now go read a fucking book or something.

    2. Re:please use understandable language by sprins · · Score: 1

      Gee, you must really be a blast at parties with such a deep sense of humor. Ever heard of terms like sarcasm and irony?

    3. Re:please use understandable language by TakaIta · · Score: 1
      "You are a fucking moron"
      Geez, i don't know about the moron, but fucking isn't that bad.

      "Now go read a fucking book or something."
      Doing a simple substitution, i should read a copulating book. I tried. It didn't let me.

      But let me guess from the high frequency of a certain word you are using: your woman did not understand what you wanted from her this morning, probably because you chose such words that she did not get the meaning of your suggestion.

    4. Re:please use understandable language by Hast · · Score: 1

      Less than stellar is (as some AC pointed out) an euphorism for "like crap" more or less. I assume you are not a native english speaker or you would have known that, idiomatic expressions typically have slightly unclear meanings but if you want to understand a language it's something that really pays off if you learn them. (Your language will seem a lot more natural if you use such expressions.)

      Unfortunately my quick search couldn't find any good online reference which contained this expression, I'm sure such places exist though.

    5. Re:please use understandable language by spuke4000 · · Score: 1
      Unfortunately my quick search couldn't find any good online reference which contained this expression, I'm sure such places exist though.

      Here you go.

      --
      This post cannot be rebroadcast without the express written constent of Major League Baseball.
    6. Re:please use understandable language by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually, I think stellar is more of a metaphor. Stars are very high in the sky, so stellar means very high in quality. So when coupled with irony, less-than-stellar means extermely low quality.

      And idioms really don't add anything to the language and vary from language to language. Idioms mostly show a lack of expressiveness in the language itself, not the reverse.

    7. Re:please use understandable language by Phouk · · Score: 1

      Searching for the phrase "stellar performance" on google returns over 50000 hits. The author must have many friends...

      BTW, I'm not a native speaker of english, and I understood the phrase just fine. Maybe you should brush up your english a bit...

      --
      Stupidity is mis-underestimated.
  11. Try SAND by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    Sounds like you're looking for SAND. It's a methodology+tools designed to insulate you and your customers from technology churn. SAND is designed around code generators that map your app onto different technology implementations. In theory you can write generators for any language you want (Java, C, PHP, LISP, whatever). Currently there are only generators for Java, but that's because nobody's had a need for other languages yet.

    The methodology requires a fair bit of architectural discipline, but it's a huge time-saver.

  12. total FUD by f00zbll · · Score: 1
    the latest tomcat 4 and 5 are even with the top servlet containers. In fact, tomcat is now in the top 5. A lot of hard working developers have spent the last 3 years improving the performance. Several of the developers have profiled tomcat4 and 5 aggressively to reduce memory usage, garbage collection and overall performance.

    talk about uninformed garbage.

    1. Re:total FUD by cyfer2000 · · Score: 1

      otherwise, this story won't happen.

      --
      There is a spark in every single flame bait point.
  13. Stellar by jd · · Score: 1

    Stellar means to be a star. So, I guess they mean Tomcat is unlikely to explode as a Supernova, before collapsing into a gigantic Black Hole.

    --
    It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
  14. Funny you brought this up... by seancallaway · · Score: 1

    A faculty member at my school was talking about running benchmarks on a various set of Java applications servers, including Oracle's, JBoss, and some others. I'm going to bring up this one to him and hopefully I'll have some unbiased results for you guys.

  15. Amusingly old benchmarks... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ... ever notice how the benchmarks on the Caucho site are ANCIENT (http://www.caucho.com/resin-3.0/features/benchmar ks.xtp)? I wonder wht they haven't updated them -- maybe so that the perception of Resin's performance remains?

    Practically every other objective benchmark such as the one from Web Performance, Inc. (http://www.webperformanceinc.com/library/ServletR eport/) doesn't show anything close the claims made by Caucho users.

    Speaking of Caucho users, there's an announcement on the Resin site of having recently reached the 3000 customer milestone. Congrats to the company ;) Tomcat frequently gets as many downloads in ONE WEEK when a new release is announced. Obviously not all are productions users, and not all stick with Tomcat.

    Finally, to the person who said "Resin was a working servlet/JSP engine while Tomcat was still just a wet dream" -- you might want to wake up at some point ;) Can you point to any evidence to back up your claim? OTOH, we know Tomcat (and before that JServ, from which Tomcat inherited) was tracking the Servlet Spec very closely from the Spec's early versions.

    I do want to commend Caucho for having a GPL version of Resin. It's a good move, both from a technology perspective and from a sales perspective, because people will still have to pay for the Pro version if they want something good.