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Carbon Nanotubes Harder Than Diamond

purduephotog writes "CDAC has announced the formation of a new form of hexagonal packed carbon similiar to diamond. Carbon nanotubes are compressed at 75 GPa and quenched. The new material is conclusively different via Raman Spectroscopy and both cracked and indented the diamond anvil used in its creation. CDAC is also known to have created via CVD the hardest diamond to date."

29 of 297 comments (clear)

  1. But the real question is... by BayBlade · · Score: 5, Funny

    Does it go to 11?

    --

    The key difference between a Programmer and a Senior Programmer is that one of them is Mexican.

    1. Re:But the real question is... by ikkonoishi · · Score: 4, Informative

      Parent is refering to the Mohs hardness scale in which diamond is used as the upper end of the scale at 10.

      If this is harder than diamond then either the scale will have to be scaled to make this the new 10 or this will be set as some value greater than 10 depending on its relative hardness.

    2. Re:But the real question is... by Rei · · Score: 5, Informative

      Ok, lets give some info on this, since I've researched it a lot before when I was on a big space-elevator kick.

      First off, the "diamond anvil" is a DAC: Diamond Anvil Cell. It's not an anvil in the typical sense. What you have is a stepping-down system of applying pressure. You have steel apply pressure to a very hard material, such as tungsten carbide, which then applies the pressure to a diamond (incredibly hard), which applies the pressure to whatever you're trying to compress. This means you can have a large area of steel on which to apply pressure, transferring it to a small area of tungsten carbide, transferring it to a tiny area of diamond. DACs are nifty ;)

      Secondly, what they've done here had been theorized years ago; I had been trying to convince Highlift (and later, Liftport) to put more research on this front. The concept of coming up with a nanotube epoxy that is as strong as the individual tubes is a bit far-fetched, but it was known that SWNTs, under pressure, can merge:

      http://www.ncnr.nist.gov/staff/taner/nanotube/in te rlink.pdf

      While carbon sp3 bonds are strong, sp2 bonds are stronger. Nanotubes use only sp2 bonds; diamonds only sp3. In the pressure-induced interlinking, depending on the types of tubes involved, different sp2 bonds will be replaced with sp3, merging the tubes. While this weakens their overall strength, they adhere to each other far, far more strongly than they normallly would from mere van der waals force alone.

      --
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    3. Re:But the real question is... by Christopher+Thomas · · Score: 3, Interesting

      So wait, you have a large bit of material placing pressure on a smaller piece of harder material, ad infinitum...

      Won't that just leave you with a series of bisected samples, each harder than the last?


      No, due to the cell geometry. The face contacting the softer material is large, and the face contacting the harder material is smaller. As force is constant (not pressure), you end up with less pressure on the weaker face, and more (though hopefully less than your intermediate material's inelastic deformation pressure) on the harder face.

      This lets you apply huge pressures to a very small sample, between two diamond faces. My understanding is that they handle the edges by using a metal gasket, which is allowed to deform inelastically to transfer force to a side housing with more surface area (think "o-ring seal").

      Diamond anvil cells were big news when they came out because they were so _small_. You could hold them in-hand or put them on a lab bench and apply pressure by turning screws, whereas past high-pressure machines had been huge monstrosities. And with the diamond anvils as windows, you can even to spectrographic measurements of samples as they're being compressed (though the diamond's absorption bands interfere, and the faces can warp under very high pressure). Very nifty gadgets.

  2. Interesting by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    I've never done a spectroscopic analysis of ramen before - I usually just ate it

  3. Is it really that hard by WormholeFiend · · Score: 4, Insightful

    to spell out Chemical Vapor Deposition?

    Overuse of acronyms degrade language, you know.

    1. Re:Is it really that hard by deglr6328 · · Score: 4, Funny

      That's why he made it a link.

      Now, in order to read the article text in the proceedings of the national academies of science you'll apparently have to clink on a link with the name "WANG_PNAS.pdf" and I'm just not feeling that daring while I'm still at work on a Friday afternoon :)

      --
      - "Hear that?! The percolations are imminent! Cease your ingress!"
  4. Somehow by Timesprout · · Score: 5, Funny

    I cant see them becoming a girls best friend though

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    1. Re:Somehow by nuclear305 · · Score: 3, Funny

      Until they make sex toys and condoms out of this stuff...I mean, it's harder than diamond right? That's a lot to live up to...

  5. Gotta boil 'em by yotto · · Score: 5, Funny

    Raman Spectroscopy

    Dude, they're always tough until you boil them for 3 minutes. This is nothing new.

  6. Possible uses? by francisew · · Score: 5, Interesting

    This might be good for new machining tools?

    I wonder what the optical properties are, and what the maximum size of these is?

    1. Re: Possible uses? by Izago909 · · Score: 5, Interesting

      It cost me $15 for a pack of replacement razor blades. It cost me $30 to have them cryogenically treated. I've been using my current set for about 2 months now. The other ones got about 3-4 months of use before I threw them out. At this rate I've got about a 2 year supply left. There's a reason razor companies use the softest steel possible and charge between $5-8 dollars for a pack of 4 blades. It's also the same reason it can often be cheaper to buy a new printer instead of replacement cartridges.

      Cryogenic treating is nothing new. Top automotive racers have been freezing engine parts for over a decade now. Aeronautical companies have been doing it for longer. Did you just spend a lot of money on a special silk piece of clothing for your girl? Have it treated too. You'd be surprised how long silk will last, or how much stronger it will be after treatment. Tired of sharpening lawn mower blades? Did you buy your kid some expensive plastic toy you know he/she will destroy within a week? Damn near everything can be treated. Metals, fibers, and plastics (and other polymer compounds) are incredibly resilient afterwards.

    2. Re: Possible uses? by Baseclass · · Score: 4, Insightful
      Then why doesn't some renegade small company come out with these everlasting products and put the megacorps out of business.

      Actually forget I said that...um, I have something to take care of brb (be right back).

      --
      ^^vv<><>BA
  7. Carbon on carbon violence by martensitic · · Score: 5, Funny
    "both cracked and indented the diamond anvil used in its creation"

    And thus, the student overtakes the master.

    --
    Ut Tensio, Sic Vis
  8. Space Elevator, here we come! by ave19 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    These are the types of advances we need to make the space elevator a reality. Either using nanotubes like this in a matrix, or more mind-boggingly, create wires of them.

    Going up!

    --
    ...or maybe not.
    1. Re:Space Elevator, here we come! by Capt'n+Hector · · Score: 4, Informative

      It doesn't really matter how hard the material is. It needs to be VERY light and be able to withstand huge tensions. For example, spider silk does well in this area, but isn't anywhere near as hard as a diamond. But then I suppose that depends on your definition of "hard"...

      --
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      Africus aut Europaeus?
  9. Chew on this... by superrcat · · Score: 3, Funny

    Raman, the technology and dietary staple of millions of college students makes carbon nanotubes harder than diamonds, (but still not harder than the $.25 cent Raman noodles themselves)

    1. Re:Chew on this... by metlin · · Score: 4, Informative

      Raman Spectroscopy refers to a spectroscopic analysis method for condensed matter based on Raman Scattering, which was by put forward by Sir CV Raman, a pioneering Indian physicist in optics and a Nobel Laureate. Incidentally, his nephew also Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar also won the Nobel Prize for work related to Black Holes.

      And oh, Raman's work also explained why the sky is blue, incidentally :-)

  10. Explanation of Raman spectroscopy by francisew · · Score: 5, Informative

    I realize you are kidding... here is what Raman really is... (give or take a few details ;p)

    Spectroscopy: study of quantities of light at various wavelengths (or frequencies). Useful because matter interacts with light, so by measuring light passing through unknown matter, you figure out what its passing through.

    Raman spectroscopy, is a branch where one looks at the wavelength shift occurring as light passes through a sample. A bit like doppler radar involves a shift of frequency (although it's not a shift due to the movement of molecues, but rather due to energy differences in orbitals as they move/distort).

    The cool thing about Raman is that you just need a single wavelength of excitation, meaning you can build a spectrometer with a single laser diode. Then you filter off the laser line, and presto, the only light left will be the spectrum of interest.

    Caveats: low intensity, frequency shift is very small, you still need a monochromator. Advantages: you get information that isn't available in standard IR & UV-vis spectra, the spectra are excitation freuency independant (not entirely true), by taking advantage of resonances it's possible to get REALLY intense spectra (resonance Raman and SERS).

    1. Re:Explanation of Raman spectroscopy by Tenebrious1 · · Score: 5, Funny

      Raman spectroscopy, is a branch where one looks at the wavelength shift occurring as light passes through a sample.

      Ramen spectroscopy, on the other hand, is applying a single frequency, usually 2.5GHz, to the ramen which is in a water solution, for about 3 minutes. The analysis is rather straightfoward, but you should blow on it otherwise it might scald your measuring equipment.

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  11. Gimme! by DiscordOfFive · · Score: 3, Funny

    Damn... Just when I get my +5 sword diamond bladed, they make a better diamond... or rather, carbon thingy

    --


    Only the purest of souls seek enlightenment. Everyone else just wants power.
  12. background by cinnamon+colbert · · Score: 5, Informative

    The 2001 edition of the annual review of materials research, http://www.annualreviews.org/, has a nice review of the field of super hard materials. the authors point out that scratching a diamond is not, in intself, much evidence of anything; in the real world lots of soft scratch hard examples can be found. The authors of this article also point out that one of the few flaws of diamond is that it reacts with iron, so you can't diamond coat cutting tools; instead, you have to use much softer things like boron nitride or TiN. Nanotubes could have a major commercial future if they are harder then TiN, non reactive to iron, but softer then diamond.

    full citation SYNTHESIS AND DESIGN OF SUPERHARD MATERIALS; J Haines, JM Léger, G Bocquillon
    Annual Review of Materials Research, Vol. 31: 1-23

  13. Re:Kimberlites by JesseL · · Score: 3, Insightful

    How can this possibly be modded as informative? Refering to Superman as evidence and then posting a link that only talks about diamond finds around the great lakes does not convince me of the posters veracity.

    --
    "Prefiero morir de pie que vivir siempre arrodillado!"
  14. This could affect the diamond market... by CrazyDuke · · Score: 4, Informative

    ...and enough with the nanotube ring jokes. That's not what I'm talking about.

    You see, nowadays, when you want to facet a gemstone into the shapes most people have come to expect in jewelry, one has to use abrasives to put the faces in the stone. Usually Silicon Carbide grit (9.5 hardness, usually for softer stones) or diamond (10 hardness, for harder stuff) on a spinning disk to grind into the stone. But this doesn't work for all gemstones, notably diamond. Trying to facet a diamond with diamond grit on a lap (the disk) will just cut gouges into your lap. They are not cheap.

    So diamonds still have to be done the hard way: roughly shaping the stone by cleaving, then using 2 diamonds, one of poor quality, to rub the faces into the good diamond. If this stuff can be synthesized in different grits (particle sizes) for fairly cheap, then it can be used to facet diamonds with machinery rather than by hand. Much of a diamonds (and most other stones) value is actually from the labor put into faceting it. This is especially so for smaller stones. How cheap? Well, currently lapidaries are paying for synthetic diamond grit...

    --
    Any sufficiently advanced influence is indistinguishable from control.
  15. Re:And best of all! by owlstead · · Score: 4, Funny

    What? They compress African peasants to make diamonds? The bastards!

  16. cheap space launches by WillWare · · Score: 4, Interesting
    One person commented that this may help advance the Space Elevator, and that may be true, but it's an even bigger help for the space railway because the material is good under compression (the SE needs something good under tension). The space elevator subjects its payload to about a week of heavy radiation, so it's not practical for passengers. There are still lots of non-alive things we want to put in space cheaply, and for those it's great.

    For humans, J. Storrs-Hall (of sci.nanotech fame) proposed a space railway that could be built sooner and more cheaply than a space elevator. It's a linear induction motor laid along a 300km-long track, 100km above the ground, where the atmosphere is thin enough to take a few orbits to decay your orbit. You drive your spaceship up a ramp to one end, and the motor accelerates you along the railway at about 10G for about 90 seconds, putting you in a slightly elliptical orbit with an apogee on the other side of the Earth. When you hit apogee, you do a burn to get into a higher orbit.

    Relatively little radiation because you cross the Van Allen belts much faster. You get to LEO without burning any of your own fuel, which is a big energy win. The railway is low enough that orbits still decay slowly, so there's no space junk to worry about at that altitude.

    The structure is a collection of A-frames, built like a radio tower. Like the space elevator, only a tiny fraction of the height is subjected to significant weather. The structure is under compression, not tension, which widens the choice of materials. According to Storrs-Hall, existing synthetic diamond would be suitable.

    --
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  17. compressive strenth != Youngs Modulous by Brigadier · · Score: 3, Informative



    Keep in mind the compressive strength of a material is not the same as the strenth in tension. Not only that material like this has pretty much no elastic properties. ie, thats why you can easily shatter a diamond even though it's so strong

  18. Ramans do everything in threes by dakara · · Score: 5, Funny
    Raman Spectroscopy

    I'm expecting 2 more dupes of this article.

  19. Re:space [elevator] fanboyism by Artifakt · · Score: 4, Insightful

    We've got a lot of problems right here on earth, folks- and I'd much rather you all put that brainpower to them.

    There are lots of down to earth problems involving high loads and other stressors on cables. How do you make the SF bay area bridge safer against earthquakes? (or against sabotage?). How do we scale up the design of that suspension bridge to get multi-mile spans in the Florida keys or elsewhere? Is it possible to build such a bridge across the Gibraltar istmus?
    Can we make a cable that's strong and waterproof enough to safety retrofit earthenware dams all around the mouth of the Mississippi region, and do it cheaply? Is there something that could help stabilize really tall free standing radio masts in central Russia, and is thermally less expansive than steel cable, or better yet electrically non-conductive? What design changes could have kept the WTC standing for at least a few additional hours, and what sort of materials would they require?
    The thing is, if we get good answers to even some of these questions, they are likely in this case to point us towards towards space program uses as well. The problems you cite will apply to every use, not just a space elevator. Someone will be looking into using these fibers for zeppelin fabric to build really large gasbags and set up a major freight hauling system across the Mediterranian sea, and someone else will raise the issues of safety, location or insurance just like you have here.
    Half the reason so many engineers want to build really big projects like space elevators is to show all the people who toss out bullet comments just like yours for every new project, space or earth, military or peaceful, that big things can still be done. You're doing it about space. Someone else will do it about any new idea that could alleviate poverty, or clean up the environment, or somehow improve someone's quality of life. So nothing will change. Thank goodness its all perfect now.

    --
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