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Proposal: Put Library of Congress' Contents Online

Mark_Uplanguage writes "The idea to scan in all materials available at the U.S. Library of Congress was presented at the Web 2.0 conference this week (as just one of many ideas presented). The proposed cost of $260 million would create a huge benefit to society (well, at least to those who can read English)."

25 of 394 comments (clear)

  1. Er by DrMrLordX · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Pardon me for sounding like an eegnoramoose, but isn't at least some of the material in the Library of Congress copyrighted material? Putting it all online would let people get copies of it for *gasp* FREE.

    Can't have that, now can we?

    1. Re:Er by silentbozo · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Many of the libraries in the country carry copyrighted material. You can walk in and peruse the books at your leisure, for free. Same idea, only you grant access to a lot more people. Scholars routinely pay to get copies of rare items from libraries for research, and every time a query comes in, they have to haul the book out, and run it through a copier. It would be a lot more intelligent to scan once, store it, and make it available on demand.

      The chief benefit? Even if the original is lost or destroyed, the digital version lives on - a big issue, assuming that ANY item ever enters the public domain from now on, the way that they were supposed to. Hell, I'd lay out money for a copy of the Library of Congress on a set of blue-ray DVDs, and so would many large corporations (those that still have research labs, that is), universities and colleges, as well as other organizations and governmental entities around the world.

    2. Re:Er by jrockway · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Interesting concept, though. It's okay if I go to the Library and look it, but not if I look at it online? Why? ( I guess I know the answer; in real life only one person can see it at a time. Online, everyone on Earth can see it at the same time. Oh well. Information wants to be free. Don't want someone to know it? Don't write a book about it! )

      --
      My other car is first.
    3. Re:Er by siriuskase · · Score: 4, Interesting
      This is one more reason that the whole basis behind IP law needs to be reevaluated. Although we do want authors, inventors, and other creative types to be rewarded for their efforts, it is also true that what they create becomes more valuable the more it gets out into the world. Any academic knows that the more a paper gets cited, the more valuable it is. Likewise, the more a book is read, the more likely it will wind up in the canon of culturally significant books.

      Creating primarily for money is shortsighted when a work has the chance to impact the larger culture. Just look at Michael Moore (ooh, isn't he ugly, but that's not the point), he's more interested in people seeing and being influenced by his movies than in getting richer off them. Enough money to be comfortable is great, but then, barriers to free movement of ideas should be relaxed.

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    4. Re:Er by sonamchauhan · · Score: 4, Interesting
      Putting it all online would let people get copies of it for *gasp* FREE.

      Can't have that, now can we?


      No, we can't... it not be fair to lots of people whose copyrights haven't yet lapsed.

      But scanning the materials is _still_ a good idea. It allows for automated OCR that allows searching for text _within_ a book (like A9.com does, and as Google plans to do.) The difference is that all books published in the US could be searched.

      It would also make this scenario possible:
      • I walk into a public library
      • On a library computer, I enter keywords that search the new "library of congress book text search database".
      • Based on the results (matching text snippets from _within_ books), I decide to buy two books.
      • I walk to the librarian and pay the purchase price
      • She fires up a local print run on the library's new laser book printer
      • 500 automatically laser-printed-punched-and-bound pages later, I have my new two books.


      Since this process is handled by people trained to respect copyright (i.e. the librarians), it is a win-win for everyone.
    5. Re:Er by mcrbids · · Score: 4, Insightful

      One of the greatest catastrophes in human history was the burning of the great library at Alexandria, Egypt.

      See, the ancient world had many items of great wisdom, and many of the only copies of these works were contained there. The burning of the great library was the end for countless such works.

      Today, however, our knowledge is much more widely spread. We all owe a tremendous debt to Gutenburg, for his printing press (removable type press, 1436) for making this possible.

      It's quite arguable that the dawn of the renaissance stemmed not from Galileo, or Kepler, but from the widespread nature of books in general after the removable type printing press made this possible.

      How many of these works are unique or very rare? I'd consider that a large percentage of these works fall into this category - in which, it would be a wonderful thing to build in some redundancy into the preservation of not only these works, but the wisdom, insight, and humor contained therein!

      Warm up the scanner, says I!

      --
      I have no problem with your religion until you decide it's reason to deprive others of the truth.
    6. Re:Er by Jeff+DeMaagd · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Even if the original is lost or destroyed, the digital version lives on

      Assuming a large sum of money is spent maintaining the digital versions. Computers lose and destroy data, even good computers fail. So it would require good backups done on a regular basis. File formats tend to change too.

    7. Re:Er by slashdot.org · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I guess I know the answer; in real life only one person can see it at a time.

      And that's exactly the biggest mistake people keep making; analogies don't work. The stuff we are dealing with is *new*. A library != Internet. There is no analogy.

      I'm not saying that I have a solution to any of this, but I think the first thing people will have to realize is that things have changed in a dramatic way. The traditional way of thinking about IP (or really, information) no longer works.

      There is no simple answer to any of this, and it makes no sense to come up with analogies and try to justify or make judgement based on that.

      Fact of the matter is, all of a sudden it is possible for people to view/copy information pretty much instantly. What we need to realize is that _we_ are the ones that can/will put together the foundation of how to deal with this. No current laws really are suitable. Look at the mess with P2P networks and the music industry. Surely P2P networks _should_ be perfectly legal, but on the other hand if copying music would become so easy that you could listen to any song you'd like, at any given time without paying for it, it's hard to imagine how artists will be paid (and please don't give me the "they'll have to do live performances to make money" bs).

      The people that will be able to figure out what the _real_ answers are to these issues are the ones that will do really well. Think about it. /rant

  2. Can't do that. by Pig+Hogger · · Score: 5, Funny

    This would violate the publishers' god-given right to milk their "creations" until the heat-death of the Universe.

    1. Re:Can't do that. by InfiniteWisdom · · Score: 4, Funny

      until the heat-death of the Universe.

      Hey its still a finite time
      - Walt Disney

    2. Re:Can't do that. by Senjutsu · · Score: 4, Interesting

      you must mean that whole 70 years after the author's death.

      You must mean currently. But we all know that as soon as anything major (like Steamboat Willy) comes close to coming out of copyright, we'll see Congress extend the term of copyright yet again, thanks to 'encouragement' from Disney.

      Copyright terms are nigh on infinite in fact, if not in law.

  3. Storage by Neon+Spiral+Injector · · Score: 4, Funny

    How data much storage would this require? Could someone give it to me in laymen's terms?

    1. Re:Storage by jrockway · · Score: 4, Funny

      About 1.0003 libraries of congress.

      --
      My other car is first.
    2. Re:Storage by Ghostgate · · Score: 4, Funny

      This will require 1.28 Libraries of Congress to store. The overhead is for all of the faulty copy protection to be added, which a 13-year-old somewhere in Europe is already working on cracking.

    3. Re:Storage by operagost · · Score: 4, Funny

      Don't use a Pentium chip next time.

      --

      Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
  4. We need to get our priorities straight by davmoo · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Since Congress and the President can so easily pull out a hundred billion dollars to bomb the hell out of another country, I see no reason we can't come up with a whimpy $260 million for something as worthwhile as this.

    --
    I want a new quote. One that won't spill. One that don't cost too much. Or come in a pill.
    1. Re:We need to get our priorities straight by Zoop · · Score: 4, Funny

      Since Congress and the President can so easily pull out a hundred billion dollars to bomb the hell out of another country, I see no reason we can't come up with a whimpy $260 million for something as worthwhile as this.

      I'm sorry, I don't get it. How does your proposal bomb anybody?

      Are you suggesting we should bomb libraries?

      I mean, I see libraries, I see money, but I'm missing the bombs.

      Tell you what, rewrite your proposal with bombs and maybe some cool submunitions and make sure they're Furin libraries, and we'll talk.

  5. One of the More interesting projects by randall_burns · · Score: 4, Interesting

    The government has proposed recently. I would also suggest that they put in place requirements that all future material that is to be copyrighted present appropriate copies in machine readable form so this will be cheaper in the future.

  6. Ametrica! by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 5, Funny

    Finally, Slashdot can establish that for official purposes:

    1 Library of Congress = $260M

    And the 2004 US Federal budget can be spec'd at 0.000243754522 LoC:s (Libraries of Congress per second).

    --

    --
    make install -not war

  7. Re:Only English? by AKAImBatman · · Score: 4, Informative

    From Wikipedia:

    [T]he Library assumed a role as a legal repository to guarantee copyright protection. All authors seeking American copyright had to submit two copies of the work to the Library. This requirement is no longer enforced, but copies of many books published in the US still arrive at the Library regularly.

    Damn trolls.

  8. Missing something? by ravenspear · · Score: 4, Funny

    In a traditional library it's not really easy to...

    1. walk in and pick up a book
    2. strike the author's name from it and replace it with your own
    3. replace the copyright notice with your own
    4. Make one thousand perfect copies
    5. Offer it for sale, start taking orders, and PROFIT!

    ...all within 30 minutes.

    I could easily do that on the internet.

  9. Re:Can't do that-Inheritance. by Waffle+Iron · · Score: 5, Insightful
    If you get an inheritance? You effectively do.

    I might inherit a portion of his farm. But that's a result of money that he saved at the time. I do not collect royalties on the *work* that he did 70 years ago.

    If an author or musician wants to leave an inheritance, then they should save the money they make during a reasonable copyright term, and give that to their children. They can leave their typewriters, musical instruments, and other tools of the trade (analagous to a farm) as well.

    They might have to actually forego a blowing everything they earn on cocaine and refrain from signing away most of their income on bad contracts to actually achieve this, but then so do the rest of us.

  10. Re:More dotcom hype... by MrWa · · Score: 4, Insightful
    If this is such a wonderful idea why doesn't he get a bunch of artists, musicians and writers to donate their own work to this project and actually prove the concept works?

    Work for who? I think you are still confused from the dotcom era still. You must be thinking that "change society and business" means that scanning the entire LoC can make someone money (advertising??)

    The important part in this case is the changing society part of the statement, which is what the vast potential of the net is capable of doing. It won't help you make money based on a bad idea (in fact, it may only help you lose money faster!) but it does have the potential to change the way a society views and deals with information.

    Right now there is a vast amount of knowledge in the LoC that is effectively out of the ordinary citizen's hands. That is not how it should be. If knowledge is power, there is a storehouse of power waiting to be unleashsed by giving everyone access to what is being stockpiled. It won't happen over night, or in a few years, but eventually it will have a ripple effect. Historians lament the loss of the Great Library of Alexandria, but what difference would it have made if only a few could actually use the information that was contained?

  11. I have to ask... by Civil_Disobedient · · Score: 4, Insightful

    As an author, I wonder how much of your valued craft was honed by reading the work of others for education and inspiration. How many books did you buy in elementary school, or high school? Yet that's where you learned your precious language skills you now market.

    Knowledge, even the limited knowledge of an author, does not exist in a vacuum. You read, you learn, you practice, then you create. You could not have done this without the beneficence of others who aren't making a dime off the education they provided you.

    To unleash the vast amounts of knowledge stored up in the LOC to the world would be one of the single best things this country could do for mankind. One book, one reader my hairy ass. Why not open the floodgates so everyone can benefit?

    I understand the motivation of monetary incentives, but I also know a lot of great authors who died penniless. And they were at least brave enough to sign their names to their ideas.

  12. www.loc.gov by pNutz · · Score: 4, Informative

    Of course this instantly deteriorates into a discussion about the shameful state of IP and copyright laws, the need to pool all human knowledge, and how crappy the US budget deficit is.

    If you go to the LOC's site, you'll notice American Memory on the front page.

    American Memory is where you can get a good portion of the public domain stuff (books, letters from immigrants to their families back home, photos of civil war enlistees, audio, Edison-era short movies) for free in a low-quality format. Archival quality copies and custom scans/recordings are available for $$$. Almost any work in the LOC can be scanned on request (3 week waiting time or so); this is how they manage to continue adding scans to their collection without requiring public or private funding. It's underfunded as it is and needs more bandwidth.

    This idiot in the article's proposal is completely unrealistic. Books can contain 100,000 to 5,000,000 characters. That's 100k-5Mb per book, times 26,000,000 books. That's not including the images and illustrations in some of these works. Many of the texts have value beyond the words they contain. We may be talking about image scanning the pages to preserve the look of the type, paper, and images. Archival TIFFs, since that's what the LOC uses.

    The article also mentions $60 thousand to 'store' this data (per month?, per year?, just once???, what about access?, searching?, redundant backups?). Another unrealistic number, even working off of the 1TB estimate.

    --
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