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Microsoft Media Center 2005 Reviewed

Posted by timothy on from the my-tivo-cost-200-bucks dept.

Thomas Hawk writes "Microsoft is set to release their new Media Center 2005 by none other than Bill Gates himself in Los Angeles tomorrow. In advance of this announcement, the New York Times (registration required) is running an article on the new product today. The article says that the quality of the MCE television has generally been received as inferior to rival and competitor TiVo. I wrote a review on the new MCE 2005 last week called MCE 2005, Underwhelmed. I'm offering continuing media coverage of MCE 2005."

42 of 145 comments (clear)

  1. It's a shame, but by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    due to Microsoft policy, any TV programs you record will be destroyed automatically after 30 days, unless they receive a notice from their legal department...

  2. More Features by Doesn't_Comment_Code · · Score: 5, Funny

    The article says that the quality of the MCE television has generally been received as inferior to rival and competitor TiVo.

    Microsoft salesman: ...But wait! Have you seen all the new DRM features?

    --

    Slashdot Syndrome: the sudden, extreme urge to correct someone in order to validate one's self.
    1. Re:More Features by erick99 · · Score: 5, Informative
      Here are some of the more relevant paragraphs from the NYT (relevant to the argument that Media Center PC is not as good as Tivo) story for those who don't want to have to register at their site:

      So far, the record of Media Center PC's is mixed. Since they were introduced in 2002, computers using the first two versions of this software have been slow sellers. IDC, which had forecast sales of 1.5 million of them this year, now sees sales at 550,000 units for all of 2004.

      Roger Kay, a vice president of IDC, says sales of Media Center PC's have lagged because they are buggy, too hard to use, and often too noisy to put in a living room. And even among the small group of users, they haven't developed the fanatical following of TiVo, the stand-alone video recorder.

      "I haven't been in some placid home where the people who use Media Center PC's think it is great and a part of their life," Mr. Kay said.

      Stephen Baker, the director of industry analysis at the NPD Group, a research firm, is skeptical even of the existing sales of Media Center PC's. "A lot of their sales have been accidental," he said. "Someone wants to buy the best PC out there, and this is the one with all the bells and whistles"

      The media extender device may give Microsoft its desired beachhead in the living room. But those devices are emerging technology and have an initial price tag of about $250. A recorder from TiVo, by contrast, can be bought for less than $100 after rebates, although it has a fee of $12.95 a month, which the Windows system does not.

      --
      http://www.busyweather.com/
    2. Re:More Features by Kazoo+the+Clown · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Whats new-- Microsoft's entire success is due solely to protectionist schemes-- any time they are forced to compete on a level playing field by design merit they fail miserably. Expect them to buy TiVo out, try to make some special deal with some big content company or instill one of their patents, in order to make their product "better" by locking the competition out-- it's just their way...

    3. Re:More Features by Dr+Reducto · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Actually, I know a girl whose parents bought her a nice computer for college. I was in her room, and saw the Media Center Sticker on her computer and asked her if she liked it. She had no idea what I was talking about. I still havent convinced her to set it up and use it as a TiVo.

    4. Re:More Features by garcia · · Score: 4, Interesting

      A recorder from TiVo, by contrast, can be bought for less than $100 after rebates, although it has a fee of $12.95 a month, which the Windows system does not.

      This is EXACTLY why I went with a Tivo. Price. $50 after rebate and it's noiseless. I don't think about it and I don't worry that it will crash.

      I was seriously thinking about buying a machine to do MythTV which was my first choice but I always found myself put off by the time/money investment only to have yet another machine running in the house sucking electricity (I am VERY interested in seeing a power consumption comparison between a low-end MythTV machine, Tivo, and Microsoft solution).

      Anyway. Building and running a mythTV box, while well within my ability, was just too much of a hassle compared to clicking on CircuitShitty and picking it up at the desk 20 minutes later.

      YMMV.

    5. Re:More Features by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny
      She had no idea what I was talking about. I still havent convinced her to set it up and use it as a TiVo.

      FYI, even if you get the computer set up, she's still not going to go out with you.

    6. Re:More Features by superpulpsicle · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The superior solution years from now will the the solution with no subscription plan.

      Someone in slashdot pointed out from previous articles that Snapstream could use XML TV to get data from Zap2it. I have tried it, and I ran into every firewall brick wall you can imagine.

      Granted I can still schedule shows via Snapstream to record by punching in 9:00 for example. It's just not the same having that TV guide menu like the paid Tivo service.

  3. Talented guy, indeed by damiam · · Score: 2, Funny
    Microsoft is set to release their new Media Center 2005 by none other than Bill Gates himself

    So Gates himself wrote Media Center single-handedly?

    --
    It's hard to be religious when certain people are never incinerated by bolts of lightning.
    1. Re:Talented guy, indeed by ricotest · · Score: 2, Funny

      Considering it's just Windows XP with a few knobs on, I'm sure Gates could have coded it over a few evenings. One-handedly. Whilst jacking off over pictures of Satan.

  4. What news, what news. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Lets see:

    Tivo --- Cheap, works, easy to use, easy to setup.
    MythTV --- Cheap, works, easy to use, difficult to setup.
    MCE --- Expensive, works, easy to use, modertly difficult to setup.

    Hmm...

    So MS is saying that I can spend a thousand dollars on a PC, pay them around 150 dollars for the software, subject myself to DRM, and then risk getting my Television infected with spyware, viruses, and worms?

    WERE CAN I SIGN UP?!!!!!

    1. Re:What news, what news. by reverseengineer · · Score: 3, Insightful
      Tivo --- Cheap, works, easy to use, easy to setup.
      MythTV --- Cheap, works, easy to use, difficult to setup.
      MCE --- Expensive, works, easy to use, modertly difficult to setup.

      The only problem with your otherwise insightful analysis is that the MCE "works" only for a rather limited definition of "working" compared to the functionality of the other products on the market. It does less and costs more, and Microsoft's principal argument for you to purchase one seems to be, "Hey, we're Microsoft. You may be familiar with some of our other products."

      --
      "FDA staff reviewers expressed concern about the number of patients who were left out of the study because they died."
    2. Re:What news, what news. by lakeland · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I don't think MythTV can be described as cheap. A VIA based MythTV box, using a Hauppauge 250 in an aesthetically acceptable case will set you back about $600. That's more than enough to pay for Tivo.

      Of course, this is because certain component manufacturers are suffering from low demand, or are milking the market (you choose). For instance a case is $100 but you can buy a complete DVD player (including power supply) for less than that - and it will look better. Just throw out the inside and plug the VIA MB in... Similarly, the hauppauge with its ivy tuner costs more than the entire TiVo, despite the TiVo including an ivy tuner!

    3. Re:What news, what news. by AuMatar · · Score: 2, Informative

      OF course, MythTV doesn't have a monthly fee- add in 3 years at 12 per month or so for a decent length of use comparison. And don't forget that MythTV allows customization and add ons (MythGame, MythMusic, MythPhone, add in a larger HD anytime, throw on an ftp server to access your files at a friends house, etc). Plus it can be used as a normal PC when not recording. While it may be more, you also get a lot more functionality for it.

      --
      I still have more fans than freaks. WTF is wrong with you people?
    4. Re:What news, what news. by lakeland · · Score: 2, Informative

      Oh sure, MythTV has a lot going for it. And it is very easy to accidentially include addons like a big HDD or a DVD writer in the cost when comparing to a TiVo, which is hardly an accurate comparison.

      But TiVo is available as a lifetime subscription for less than the cost of a mythtv box.

  5. Re:Hmm. Another Microsoft Solution by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

    Coming soon... HDTV viruses & spyware

  6. Noisy Hard Drive = No Thanks by bigtallmofo · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Call me picky, but I find even the quietest hard drives (Seagate Barracuda line is the quietest I've found) are unacceptably loud when used in a media PC in my living room. That constant humming is a big annoyance. Add to that, unless the case is an ITX format or smaller, I find a media PC unacceptably large for my living room as well. I've experimented with various harddrive-less media players/recorders but haven't found one that I liked enough to even mention by name here.

    --
    I'm a big tall mofo.
    1. Re:Noisy Hard Drive = No Thanks by Fnkmaster · · Score: 3, Interesting
      The noise you hear from a PC is at least 80% from the CPU fan, power supply fan and case fan. A fanless PC is extremely quiet - hard drives do make noise, but it's quiet enough that you're not terribly likely to hear a proper, low noise harddrive in a living room unless you put your ear up right next to the box it's in.


      But yes, in general, these things would be much better if they used lower power CPUs with heatpipes and fanless power supplies. In fact, more PCs in general should be designed this way as I can't stand the humming of fan noise anymore (guess I'm just getting older).

  7. Useful link by xNoLaNx · · Score: 2, Funny

    http://www.google.com/search?q=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ny times.com%2F2004%2F10%2F11%2Ftechnology%2F11micros oft.html%3Foref%3Dlogin%26pagewanted%3D1%26oref%3D login&start=0&start=0&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=moz illa&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:unofficial

  8. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 4, Funny

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  9. Somewhat misleading customer satisfaction by StateOfTheUnion · · Score: 5, Insightful
    From the NY times article Regardless of how they get Media Center computers, Mr. Brooks said people like them when they get them home. Microsoft's surveys, he said, found that more than 90 percent of the owners of the Media Center computers are satisfied with them, far more than the percentage of basic PC owners. Eight out of nine, he said, would recommend the product to a friend.

    That doesn't surprise me but I think that the figure is intrinsically misleading . . . at only 3% of the market, these media PC's are probably primarily bought by the diehard enthusiast types. These are exactly the same group that would be most likely to be very satisfied with the product. The average Joe that is much more fickle and impatient currently wouldn't even consider buying one of these for his/her living room . . . at least not until they become much more mainstream . . .

  10. As much as I hate to admit it . . . by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

    . . . Windows XP Media Center Edition is pretty cool. My roommate purchased an HP computer for college that came with MCE, though he didn't even try to set it up last year, this year he's gotten it working.

    We've used it, so far, to record South Park episodes and Comedy Central's Secret Stash. There's nothing better than going off to Intro to Philosophy class after just having heard a 5-minute unbleeped tirade from an angry black man. We've now got it set to record every show of several series, and it's really nice to be able to start playing a show at a moments notice.

    I'm kind of jealous that he's got it, actually. I'd like to turn my spare computer into a Linux box, but I'd also like to record shows on it, if such thing were possible. I have no idea if any equivalent to MCE exists on Linux.

    1. Re:As much as I hate to admit it . . . by user32.ExitWindowsEx · · Score: 2, Interesting

      MythTV www.mythtv.org

      I can even watch TV from across a network with it, using KnoppMyth as the frontend.

      --
      "Evil will always triumph because good is dumb." -- Dark Helmet
    2. Re:As much as I hate to admit it . . . by MonkeyCookie · · Score: 3, Informative

      For Linux, there's MythTV and Freevo. They're both free, and I've heard good things about both of them.

      I'm planning to get a mini-ITX form-factor computer and install Linux and one of the above to use as a media box. I'd also like to put some games and possibly Stepmania on it. That would be a nice setup.

      Anyone care to share any personal experiences with MythTV or Freevo?

    3. Re:As much as I hate to admit it . . . by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      http://www.mythtv.org/
      http://freevo.sourceforge.net/
      http://freshmeat.net/projects/knoppmyth/
      Maybe give you a start.

  11. Can it join a domain? by rsilvergun · · Score: 5, Interesting

    As I understand it, MCE is just pro with added junk. If it retails for the Same as Home, could be a nice, cheap way to upgrade to Pro.

    --
    Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
    1. Re:Can it join a domain? by Wesley+Felter · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Since MCE is only available preloaded on PCs, and those PCs must have TV tuner cards and remotes, it's hard to imagine than an MCE PC would be cheaper than a regular PC with XP Pro.

  12. Bad review by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    " Although the product allegedly will support the ATI HDTV Wonder card it is my understanding that this card only supports OTA (over the air) HDTV broadcasts. WTF?" - From the submitter review

    What an uninformed statement. This the fault of cable and sat companies. The htpc communities have screamed their heads off about for awhile now but with the new broadcast flags, I believe we will see the death of HDTV recording (on pc, too easy to share) all together. Unless there is a solid shared standard (with agreement of the copyright holders of course) you will never see anything from HDTV cable and sat on your pc.

    If any one is wondering, NO you can not just record the component signal. The pci bus has proven to be to slow to handle raw High definition signals. Hell why do you think pci video card are practically dead?

    1. Re:Bad review by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Actually, the PCI bus is not too slow, when you use a card like a hardware encoder board. You would have more than enough bandwidth to spare. An HDTV signal is around 10-20 Mbps, which is what an equivalent stream would be coming off of an encoder board which is streaming at about the same quality.

      Also, a PC's processor would not be able to handle a raw 1080i stream anyway. At least one of today's processors.

      Just my $0.02

  13. I'm unimpressed by El · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I've got a very expensive Sony Media Center PC. The program guide and remote control are nice, but the thing takes forever to switch channels, and video quality is poor (it appears to be dropping frames like crazy when receive standard broadcast TV with a lot of movement). Sure, I can pause live TV, but what good is that when it looks like crap? Of course, it is difficult to say how much of this is the fault of the software, and how much is because of the hardware -- but killing every other process running seems to help.

    --

    "Freedom means freedom for everybody" -- Dick Cheney

  14. XBMC is million times better.. by dwipal · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I use XBOX Media Center (http://www.xboxmediacenter.com) since a month now, and it is WAYYY better than whatever MS will be offering, the main advantage being u dont get stuck with M$ software. My XBMC works with the iBook and a Windows XP desktop that is kinfof like my "Media Server" lying somewhere in the bedroom.

    Its all connected to the network wirelessly, and works exceptionally well. U can manage the songs using iTunes and play those on ur home theater connected through XBMC. There are also Optical Audio and Component Out kits available for the XBOX and it works really well. It has the mplayer media player which has all the nasty codecs which can play just about anything.
    Also, xbox dosent make the noise that a regular PC will make. It now also supports 1080i DVD playback with DTS audio which is just what I need.

    M$ has a media center extender for their xbox, but it only works with their shitty Media center PCs which is wayyy overpriced and too "closed".

    As far as my XBOX can do everything i ever want (of course, except the HD-Tivo functions, which i would like leaving to Tivo), spending 150$ for the XBOX just makes too much sense. I would always prefer to have all the media stored on some PC but remotely accessible from a small non-noisy set-top box connected to the TV (like the XBOX).

    1. Re:XBMC is million times better.. by jimmyfergus · · Score: 2, Informative
      Also, xbox dosent make the noise that a regular PC will make

      Obviously, you and I have been listening to different desktop PCs and XBoxes... I'd go for an X-box for this purpose in an instant, if every one I've heard wasn't so noisy. Silence is in the ear of the beholder. They're also harder to silence. Small quiet fans just don't exist, and the Xbox has a small fan (50, 60mm or something?).

    2. Re:XBMC is million times better.. by SilentChris · · Score: 2, Funny

      My god you sound like my son.

      "U wayyyyy need XBMC, dood! It rox!"

    3. Re:XBMC is million times better.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      Obviously, you and I have been listening to different desktop PCs and XBoxes... I'd go for an X-box for this purpose in an instant, if every one I've heard wasn't so noisy. Silence is in the ear of the beholder. They're also harder to silence. Small quiet fans just don't exist, and the Xbox has a small fan (50, 60mm or something?).

      Oddly enough, I have two xboxes here that have extremely different fan volumes. One of them is far newer than the other, and came for free with our new van.

      The old one makes such a loud noise that the top volume on the TV can't drown it out. The new one makes such a small noise that you can hardly hear it, even when there's no other sound in the room. The buttons on the front of the new one also move less and are nicer, but that besides the point.

  15. Re:Noisy??? by jimmyfergus · · Score: 2, Informative
    Well, your HTPC has to be on full time to record, so it has to be quiet enough when there are no other sources of noise.

    However, I'm very picky about noise, and I've been able to silence drives very successfully. Get a modern quiet one, turn on acoustic management, and soft-mount it. Either suspend it with bungees, rest it on sorbothane foam, or at least use rubber grommets in the drive cage. There are all sorts of discussions about this on www.silentpcreview.com.

    I'm amazed by how much bungee-suspension has silenced my hard drive. You have to tackle cooling on a free-suspended drive without the heatsink-effect of a case, but that's not too hard.

    Much more difficult than hard drives, I think, is eliminating fan noise while cooling a modern machine. To have quiet fans, you need low airflow (and good fans), so you've got to work hard to make the case airflow as free as possible. Difficult with small HTPC cases particularly, but not impossible.

  16. MS isn't a useless and inferior product... by Bequita · · Score: 2, Funny

    ...it's an excellent way to identify B-Arkers.

    --
    Yes, there are women on Slashdot. Deal with it.
  17. Re:I can see it now... by GMFTatsujin · · Score: 4, Funny

    And halfway into the presentation, in front of all the world, inexplicably, BlankScreen(TM) turns a familiar shade of blue...

  18. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  19. heh by NeoGeo64 · · Score: 3, Funny

    I've always wanted to see hi-def goatsee and tubgirl. ;)

  20. No It Can't by corren · · Score: 2, Informative

    Unless you upgrade from MC 2004 to 2005 (and have previously joined a domain) you can not join a domain with MC 2005.

    This is because MC 2005 is cheaper than XP Pro, and MSFT doesn't want corporations abandoning XP Pro sales.

  21. Crash-o-matic by pair-a-noyd · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I just spent a few days in Houston Memorial Herman Hospital where they have a sort of interesting setup.
    The old TV's are gone, they have flat screens on a boom that you can pull down to your face and watch TV on, surf the net, etc..
    My complaint with it was that it's credit card driven, you get about 10 channels for free but they are all bullcrap channels, women's talk shows, soaps, "The Aquarium Channel" and other useless nonsense.
    If you want to watch anything else you have to swipe your credit card in a slot on the side to activate the half way decent channels or get on the net. The proxy is heavily censored/nannied and you can't do much more than go to disney.com and other 4 year old level crap. Any site with naughty words are off limits.

    Not having a credit card, I was screwed until they caused me some extreme pain, I filed a complaint and they kissed my ass for the rest of my stay which included turning on all the channels.. (not worth the pain though!)

    Anyway, the thing was crashing every few hours, it would boot up with a Windows 2000 start up screen then go through a very lengthy new hardware detection process, rebooting numerous times as it tried to detect and install all the goodies. It is a touch screen and the picture was a little better than poor and just under acceptable. You can go back and forth between the net and TV by touching the screen. Typing on it and filling in forms was a pain. There was a power, coax and an ethernet cable from the wall into the boom. I would be willing to bet that this device is insanely expensive. Considering though that they charged me about $100,000 for everything, I would think they may have put a dent in the bill for this system.

    At first glance, it looked neat. After serious scrutiny, it's buggy and low quality. But most people laying in bed, in pain could care less.

    Here's a link to a story all about the system.
    http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/technology/020104_tech _hostech.html

  22. Microsoft NDA / press embargo Media Center 2005 by Geartest.com · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Thomas, I found this excerpt quite interesting (emphasis added):

    I wrote a review on the new MCE 2005 last week called MCE 2005, Underwhelmed.

    How was it that you were able to get advance access to the software and avoid violating confidentiality agreements that you must have signed?

    We were at a Microsoft media briefing a couple of weeks ago and were required to sign NDAs specific to the Media Center Edition 2005. The information was embargoed until the October 12 official launch of Windows Media Center Edition 2005. The NDAs applied to everyone, including major media with millions of readers/listeners/viewers.

    In the case of the New York Times, and a few selected media outlets, I'm sure that they got special access. Either that or the NYT is violating an NDA as well, which I think is improbable.

    So how has Thomas Hawk managed to get the software and write about it so far in advance without violating an NDA or otherwise going up against the Microsoft legal department?

    Or is your "review" like a lot of game "reviews" where you haven't even seen or used the software, and rely on third-party accounts as the basis of your "review"?