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Secret Service Reads Livejournal

Posted by michael on from the underemployed-civil-servants dept.

Prong_Thunder writes "A livejournal post written on October 18th (google cache, scroll down to 'a prayer for dubya') resulted in a visit from the US Secret Service nine days later, as it 'constituted a possible threat to the president'."

12 of 277 comments (clear)

  1. If you read the posts... by Apiakun · · Score: 5, Informative

    She goes on to say that they didn't just stumble upon the page and pay her that visit. One of the people that regularly reads her blog "turned her in". Pretty scary thing to happen, but in other countries it could have turned out much worse. *cough*China*cough*

  2. *NOT* a Free Speech and/or Patriot Act Issue by nuxx · · Score: 4, Informative
    That girl wasn't too bright to get herself into trouble. If you read the original post (also mirrored here in PDF format) she made threatening statements about the President. The Secret Service, doing it's job of protecting the President, investigated, found nothing, and went about their way.

    For more information as to what they were likely under take a look at US Code Title 18, Part 1, Chapter 41, 871(a):

    Whoever knowingly and willfully deposits for conveyance in the mail or for a delivery from any post office or by any letter carrier any letter, paper, writing, print, missive, or document containing any threat to take the life of, to kidnap, or to inflict bodily harm upon the President of the United States, the President-elect, the Vice President or other officer next in the order of succession to the office of President of the United States, or the Vice President-elect, or knowingly and willfully otherwise makes any such threat against the President, President-elect, Vice President or other officer next in the order of succession to the office of President, or Vice President-elect, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than five years, or both.


    That said, this has nothing to do with the First Amendment and free speech, because while there are protections of free speech, it is well established that there are things you cannot say. These are commonly summed up as the 'yelling FIRE in a theater' statements. This also does not apply to anything Patriot-act related. It's a simple Secret Service investigation of a percieved threat. End of story.

    Hopefully she has now learned that publishing something on the internet (and that's what LJ is) is not much different from standing on a street corner and shoting something, except with an eternal echo.
    1. Re:*NOT* a Free Speech and/or Patriot Act Issue by squiggleslash · · Score: 4, Insightful
      I read the Google cache of her comment and cannot see how it was "threatening". Threatening, in general, doesn't mean to "wish God would kill someone", it generally means to imply a threat exists or to create one. If she was organizing the killing of our beloved leader, or even encouraging others to do so on her behalf, then that would be something, but...

      ...but just asking God to do it is stretching things. It's clearly not serious, it's clearly not an attempt to kill anyone, and it certainly doesn't fit into anything of the quoted US code: It isn't a document containing a threat to take the life of (...) upon the President of the United States (...) or (...) otherwise (is making) any such threat against the President"

      Be reasonable, please. Don't stretch definitions to this kind of degree.

      I realise, incidentally, that I may simply not understand your point of view because I'm an atheist. If you're a God-fearing Christian, and seriously believe that God, on receipt of a message from a foul-mouthed blogger, would say "Well, goodness. I better do as she asked and get rid of this Bush fellow", then, obviously, we're at odds, though such a view would seem wrong on so many levels that I don't know where to begin understanding someone who'd think that way.

      --
      You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
    2. Re:*NOT* a Free Speech and/or Patriot Act Issue by nuxx · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I agree, I don't think it was much of a threat, but it really is the Secret Service's job to investigate such things. I also don't think that the Secret Service feels she is a threat either, anymore, after they took a look and investigated things. After all, that's all they did...

      I think it comes down to not wanting anything to fall through the cracks. What if someone really was to want to injure the President and was really quiet about it, but occasionally let things slip and made ranting (such as the aforementioned) posts online? If something happened, the Secret Service would have it's head on a plate for having had a lead and not investigating at all.

    3. Re:*NOT* a Free Speech and/or Patriot Act Issue by temojen · · Score: 4, Insightful
      ...containing any threat to take the life of, to kidnap, or to inflict bodily harm upon...

      What this boils down to for me is whether:

      I don't like X and wish he were dead.
      is the same as:
      I don't like X and will kill him.
      . I don't think they're the same at all.

      It sounds to me like whoever reported it over-reacted, and the SS were just doing their jobs.

  3. I had a similar experience by flonker · · Score: 4, Funny
    I had a similar experience on usenet. I had a .sig file that said
    filter bait: He will assassinate the president, but needs the password.
    -export-a-crypto-system-sig- RC4 in 3 lines of PERL
    #!/bin/perl -sp0777i<X+d*lMLa^*lN%0]dsXx++lMlN/dsM0<j]ds j
    $/=unpack('H*',$_);$_=`echo 16dio\U$k"SK$/SM$n\EsN0p[lN*1
    lK[d2%Sa2/d0$^Ixp"|dc`;s/\W//g;$_=pack('H*',/((..) *)$/)


    I got a call from the secret service asking me to come in and answer some questions. They found the post using Dejanews, and wanted to know what the secret code was. I told them it was a program. They said they would have their experts look at it. At the time, it was legally questionable to post that code to usenet due to ITAR, so I was polite when questioned, despite having to explain the difference between a web page and a usenet post, among other things.

    In retrospect, I'm shocked I actually said this, but when they called me, I actually asked them, "Where did you get this number?" (The number was unlisted.) Their response, "We are the secret service."
  4. RIP some civil liberties by waterbear · · Score: 5, Insightful

    According to the livejournalist concerned here, her statement of opposition to the current president, including, as it did, a juvenile or immature death-wish upon him, has earned her among other things an FBI file, and a "strong possibility" according to her attorney that she may be placed on the US no-fly list.

    That would be a significant penalty imposed without due process, and no matter what other posters here have said, this is also an obvious free speech issue.

    I'm not sure what kind of a comfort it is to say that it likely would have turned out even worse in China.

    Whatever one might want to pray happen to the president, it's arguably time also for a prayer in memory of some traditional US civil liberties and protections.

    -wb-

    1. Re:RIP some civil liberties by Sancho · · Score: 4, Insightful

      There was no threat. It was not only clearly satire, but it was a prayer to God that He kill Bush. Unless the FBI thinks that God exists and that this person was conspiring with Him to kill the President, there was no threat, period.

    2. Re:RIP some civil liberties by Mortlath · · Score: 4, Interesting
      Unless the FBI thinks that God exists and that this person was conspiring with Him to kill the President, there was no threat, period.
      It doesn't matter what the FBI thinks about God, it matters what the person in question believes about God.

      Crimes have been known to be committed in the name of God.

      I can see why the FBI might take this seriously. I think they just want to cover their rear-ends. If something did happen, they would be in deep trouble if it was known that they knew of a threat previously (kind of like what happened with Sep. 11 incident).

      -Morty

    3. Re:RIP some civil liberties by KillScriptKiddies · · Score: 5, Funny

      I think they just want to cover their rear-ends. If something did happen, they would be in deep trouble if it was known that they knew of a threat previously (kind of like what happened with Sep. 11 incident).

      Maybe the intelligence agencies did not prevent the 9/11 attacks cause the attackers did not post anything on some weblog.

  5. Re:Not all free speech is free, eh? by chris_mahan · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Then why did she removed the post?

    SHE GOT SCARED!!!

    That, my friend, is called a shakedown, and it's a form of intimidation.

    You don't have to be charged for a crime to be made to feel like you've committed one.

    That's what's wrong with this story.

    --

    "Piter, too, is dead."

  6. Title by CGP314 · · Score: 4, Funny

    Secret Service Reads Livejournal

    Well, I guess somebody has to.


    -Colin