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An Open Source Tipping Point?

jg21 writes "Over at LinuxWorld there's an article arguing that open source will be propelled to market predominance by the same disruptive mechanism that brought Sony, Microsoft, and others to be market leaders at the moment. 'The improbable is possible - leaders have been dethroned in the past,' writes the author, who is also apparently the producer of an upcoming documentary entitled, 'The Digital Tipping Point' to be released in September 2005. The story refers to a corroborating article from South Africa and to Clayton Christensen's Seeing What's Next which backs up this general idea."

49 of 261 comments (clear)

  1. Posted to avoid shitty formatting of page by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    From http://www.linuxworld.com/story/46891.htm?DE=1 There's an article in there somewhere. Here it is:

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    Rumors of Microsoft's Demise Are Premature...But Not Unthinkable
    "The improbable is possible - leaders have been dethroned in the past"
    October 29, 2004

    Summary
    Penguinistas have long loved to ruminate over a beer about the potential reversal of market share between Microsoft and companies offering open source solutions. But such ruminations were often left to discussions at the pub or the local LUG meeting because in a corporate business setting, even the most die-hard Penguinistas might be cautious about being thought of as wacko - at least in North American and European business settings.

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    Penguinistas have long loved to ruminate over a beer about the potential reversal of market share between Microsoft and companies offering open source solutions. But such ruminations were often left to discussions at the pub or the local LUG meeting because in a corporate business setting, even the most die-hard Penguinistas might be cautious about being thought of as wacko - at least in North American and European business settings.

    Software market watchers are now taking more serious assessments of the penguin versus butterfly competition, as Microsoft matures and Linux continues to put large growth numbers on the board.

    The more vocal observers' voices in this choir are typically located outside the United States. For example, Tectonic, an online open source magazine based in South Africa, recently quoted Novell SA systems engineer and business manager Allison Singh as going on record that Microsoft's Windows juggernaut will become an operating system for niche tasks while Linux takes over the mainstream desktop and server roles. According to Tectonic, Singh forecast that users who need specific applications written for Windows only will stick with the OS, but for most other users, the rapidly evolving Linux desktop will become the standard operating system. Here's the link for that story: www.tectonic.co.za/view.php?id=324.

    But wait! Tectonic calls itself "Africa's Source for Open Source

    1. Re:Posted to avoid shitty formatting of page by Geste · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Awwww, bugger. I thought he posted it that way to make a sarcastic point about how unreadable the LinuxWorld web site is. I mean, is their webmaster on drugs? Does Sybase pay money to be associated with such madness? And what the heck did that article say?

  2. Could Definitely Happen by pipingguy · · Score: 5, Insightful


    If the sleeping giant that is America's small business community goes for Linux (possibly as a result of being introduced to the open source concept by Firefox), Bill has a really big problem on his hands.

    1. Re:Could Definitely Happen by Dionysus · · Score: 2, Interesting

      If the sleeping giant that is America's small business community goes for Linux (possibly as a result of being introduced to the open source concept by Firefox), Bill has a really big problem on his hands.

      Why? You don't think Microsoft can adapt? It seems to me that Microsoft is the master of adaption. Why can't Microsoft go the IBM route?

      --
      Je ne parle pas francais.
    2. Re:Could Definitely Happen by goon+america · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Business goes wherever the business press tells it to go -- think "Buy internet stocks now! Will this gravy train ever end?" -- and, I don't know if you've ever read any, but is pretty well analogized to Teen Beat and its fellow travellers: dumb, marketing is job #1, idiotic hysteria, herd behavior, PR-whoring if not outright shilling for the moneyed interests. What you read in any business publication is mostly adapted from press releases. What solution is actually better from a technical point of view never comes into play -- and Microsoft knows this. They've always known it, and that's how they've gotten as far as they have. (Incidentally, this is the same way we make political decisions in this country.)

    3. Re:Could Definitely Happen by Jason+Earl · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Microsoft will adapt, but no matter what they do their glory days are done. Heck, Microsoft routinely posts profit margins of over 80% on its MS Office and Windows businesses, and as the market moves more and more towards commodity software those profit margins are going to evaporate.

      Microsoft's real problem is its own success. Microsoft is crawling towards single digit growth, MSFT has a Price/Earnings ratio over over 30, and everywhere you look Linux is taking the profit margins out of potential Microsoft markets. Eventually the analysts aren't going to be able to spin Microsoft's lack of growth into a scenario that justifies MSFT's stock price and things at Microsoft are going to get truly ugly. Bill Gates and his cronies have structured Microsoft around the idea that the stock price always heads up. They have made stocks a huge part of their incentive plan, and everyone at Microsoft has a huge percentage of their personal wealth wrapped up in MSFT. When the stock price corrects itself then Microsoft is going to look vulnerable, and Linux will be waiting in the wings looking for wins. Every time Microsoft wants to push another upgrade on the public Free Software will be there to pick up stragglers. In the past Microsoft has been able to adapt because they had ridiculously lucrative businesses to back up their crazy plans. Microsoft has lost billions on the XBox (they lost over a billion last year alone). Instead of throwing in the towel Microsoft is instead rushing their next gen hardware so that they can throw more money down a hole. In a world where Microsoft has to lower prices on Windows and MS Office to compete with Free Software it is going to be much harder to convince investors that the billions wasted on the "next big thing" is truly a good idea. Investors are going to demand growth, and Microsoft simply hasn't delivered in recent years, and things are getting steadily worse.

      Don't get me wrong, Microsoft isn't going to disappear in a puff of smoke, but for a high flyer like Microsoft being relegated to one solution of many turning a 10% profit margin is a long step down.

    4. Re:Could Definitely Happen by Jason+Earl · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I look at it like this, M$ can be at 0% (zero) profit growth for the rest of eternity, since they are raking in about $5 to $8 billion in profits every quarter, earning additional profit doesn't really matter to M$ (except for maniacal egomanic reasons).

      Microsoft earned $0.75 per share in its 2004 fiscal year. That's hardly impressive for a stock that sells for nearly $28 a share. If Microsoft is done growing then its investors are going to be very unhappy. That's a return of just under 3% a year. A year with no revenue growth would be even worse.

      Not to mention the fact that there is little guarantee that Microsoft will continue to be able to rake in the kind of money that they are currently pulling in. Unearned revenue continues to go down, and Linux continues to gain marketshare. Eventually MSFT investors are going to get tired of waiting for the growth to return and MSFT is going to drop like a rock. When that happens Microsoft is going to *look* vulnerable. Right now the folks selling for Red Hat and Novell have to convince their clients that they aren't crazy when they forgo the safe path of purchasing Windows. Folks that roll out Linux solutions are still taking a fairly big risk. They are betting on a David facing up against the biggest Goliath in the history of industry, and the reason that the story of David and Goliath made it into the Bible was because in real life David's get squashed. Everyone likes an underdog, but only when they win.

      A serious drop in MSFT would be hitting the behemoth right smack between the eyes, and such a drop is overdue.

    5. Re:Could Definitely Happen by Decaff · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Right now the folks selling for Red Hat and Novell have to convince their clients that they aren't crazy when they forgo the safe path of purchasing Windows. Folks that roll out Linux solutions are still taking a fairly big risk.

      I really don't understand this comment. Since when has using Windows for major server systems been considered 'safe'? Unix (now Linux) and Novell have long been the established systems in this area, and Windows has been battling to make an impact.

      As for 'risk' in rolling out Linux solutions - I don't understand that either. Providing you choose a system that is reliable and has support, where is the risk? What is this risk supposed to be?

    6. Re:Could Definitely Happen by Decaff · · Score: 2, Insightful

      In the old days the mantra was "Nobody ever got fired for buying IBM." In more modern times that has switched to "Nobody ever got fired for buying Microsoft."

      Not in the server room. Microsoft has made little impact in the enterprise server market. Just look at the phenomenal dominance of Apache as a web server, for example.

      You point to Novell as an example of an "established" system, but Novell got absolutely slaughtered by Windows NT 4.0.

      Actually, it didn't. Netware has continued to grow and expand it's market - its widely used. Its just that Windows NT expanded faster. NT certainly slaughtered some systems, but many of those were Microsoft - it was a grown-up replacement for Windows for Workgroups.

      Windows (and now Linux) have threatened Novell so much that they have essentially thrown Netware to the wolves and remade themselves as a Linux company.

      This isn't true. Novell have certainly not given up on Netware - Netware 6.0 was a success for them, and they have plans to launch Netware services hosted on Linux. Linux is certainly not a replacement for Netware - its a new platform on which to provide it.

      Likewise UNIX was losing marketshare to Windows long before Linux made a big splash.

      Again, this is not the case. UNIX was hardly ever used as a small-office server system. The NT/UNIX supposed conflict was a good example of Microsoft spin on the situation. NT was a replacement for Windows for Workgroups, smaller Netware installations and various peer-to-peer networking systems. There might have been a chance of NT having an impact on UNIX if Microsoft had continued with supporting NT on different processors - one of the strengths of UNIX, but they just gave up on this.

      The business perception of Linux has come a long way over the years, but you can't really pretend that there aren't lots of IT folks that are still openly hostile to Free Software.

      They aren't hostile to 'Free' Software - they have been hostile to the supposed lack of support. IBM, RedHat and SuSe have largely overcome that objection.

  3. does MS care by cinnamon+colbert · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Maybe MS has already recognized that the OS is a commodity product, and they don't care if linux succeeds. MAybe MS has already put the OS on a low priority, recognizing better ROI from office or integration of entertainment. In the long run, all technology becomes a commodity, and only monopolies (att ) or truly exceptional companies (ibm) who can reinvent themselves. can command high prices for more then a few years. So, in that sense,the demise of MS is inevitable. My dad always used to talk about the linotypers union: in the 40s and 50s, they were gods: nothing got printed without thier ok. today ?

    1. Re:does MS care by agent+oranje · · Score: 2, Informative
      Maybe MS has already put the OS on a low priority, recognizing better ROI from office or integration of entertainment.
      This is what I hope for. I don't think that Microsoft software is particularly a Bad Thing(tm), but the operating systems are complete crap. I'd much rather use Microsoft Office than OpenOffice or an open-source equivalent... It may be "bloated," but it's still gobs faster, and much more polished. For that matter, the best version of Microsoft Office is for OSX... which shows that Microsoft is definitely able to develop good software for alternate platforms. Why not Linux?

      The XBox, I hope, is Microsoft's way of weening children off of the Wintendo and onto a machine that is intended for gaming. XBox 2 sounds like it's trying to be the all-in-one digital entertainment center. So, either Microsoft is realizing they should focus on things other than their OS, or they're just trying to get a monopoly in a new market. But given that their OS is many, many years behind in terms of security and stability - and always will be - I hope that they start encouraging people to move to better platforms... but I think that migration will happen slowly on its own.

      --
      -agent oranje.
  4. make your opinion known when vendors come in! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    I had whiterock networks and luminous networks reps in last week. They were demoing their new oc-48 gear. I made comments with both groups asking why an open source browser with a java plugin was not certified with their webgui. I asked the other vendor why they did not have a client server software for linux or freebsd.

    I told them windows was unacceptable and solaris is not what we use. (Although the soft switch uses dual sol servers for the db.)

    anyway. complain loudly to these vendors that they
    need to support what we use in the data center.

    1. Re:make your opinion known when vendors come in! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I remember around 1997 some LabVIEW reps from National Instruments came in to our lab. They were showing a new version of their product. I asked when they'd have a Linux version... [blank stare] and one finally said something to the effect: It isn't cost effective to make a Linux version because no one will use it.

      Well, look at what we have from National Instruments today: http://www.ni.com/linux/lin_lv.htm/

      Never say never

  5. Rose-coloured glasses by coupland · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I've seen many articles like this in the past that suggested there was some "boiling point" at which Linux / OSS / Free Software would be unstoppable and would take off like wildfire. They are fun to read and dream about, but they don't reflect a realistic view of the software scene. Linus has often said that Linux on the desktop would be a long, tiring battle. I agree. We will never hit a point where Windows will suddenly be rejected and open solutions will become the de facto standard. I think we need to fight for every % of market share we get. It won't be easy but -- to be honest -- I find the challenge pretty damn fun. :)

    1. Re:Rose-coloured glasses by Tony+Hoyle · · Score: 4, Interesting

      The tipping point exists in many things. Once you get over a certain % then you're no longer the also-ran and people start taking you seriously.

      The tipping point for voters in this country (UK) for example, means that the 3rd party (Liberal Democrats) only has to get around 25% of the votes before their number of seats climbs considerably... that's a statistical anomaly that comes out of the quirky way we do our elections here (eg. in a pure 2 party race it would be theoretically possible to get 49% of the vote and zero seats. You can get 74% of the vote and lose, by the same measure... real world statistics of course aren't that clean).

      If Linux got to 20% market share for example, would there be games for it? You bet - who's going to turn down that kind of cash. Would there be preinstalled machines on the high-street? Very likely.

      Windows went through the same thing - for long time everyone wrote for DOS because nobody had Windows... then a point was reached where it became economically viable to write for Windows, and DOS went into decline quite rapidly.

    2. Re:Rose-coloured glasses by grcumb · · Score: 4, Interesting

      "Linus has often said that Linux on the desktop would be a long, tiring battle."

      I agree with Linus' assessment, inasmuch as making Linux an ideal desktop environment is concerned. But I don't think it has any bearing on the tipping point argument.

      The longest, most tiring battle of my 15 year career in IT has been supporting Windows under increasingly difficult conditions. I now refuse to recommend or administer Windows servers, and I provide my customers with compelling reasons for this stance. The vast majority of them are receptive to my reasoning and discover for themselves that Linux servers are more cost-effective.

      The huge upsurge in Windows exploits and the daily onslaught of malware and spam gives consultants like me all the fodder we need to argue for FOSS on the desktop too. Note that I'm not saying 'Linux on the desktop'. This is a transitional game we're playing, and conversion to Linux-based desktop systems won't be immediate. It will happen, though, unless something comes along that's got more momentum and greater robustness than Linux.

      It's critical to note that Microsoft has never written robust, secure software. Pronouncements to the contrary notwithstanding, it doesn't know how to do it. As software security becomes a dominant criterion for product selection, Microsoft's appeal diminishes. More and more frequently, organisations are willing to compromise on polish and integration in exchange for lower overall running costs.

      This is precisely the wedge that Linux - and FOSS in general - need to break into the market. There will be a tipping point past which it becomes easier to move to FOSS than to remain with MS. The real question is when this will occur. You seem to be suggesting that this will be a long time in coming. I believe that rampant security problems will bring about the change much sooner than many suspect.

      --
      Crumb's Corollary: Never bring a knife to a bun fight.
    3. Re:Rose-coloured glasses by einhverfr · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Meanwhile, Linux only provides marginal benefits over Windows (and has it's deficits as well). On the desktop there's very little case that Linux would provide users with some capability that Windows does not have.

      That depends heavily on your environment, my friend.

      In a typical workstation/server model, you are right. But what if I want all my programs to run on differnet servers for centralized administration and have them share your home directory? Not so easy on Windows unless you start running lots of add-ons. Now, what if I still want my email client to run on the laptop so I can work when I am not on the intranet? Breeze in Linux, not so easy on Windows (yes, there is folder synchronization, but CodaFS is better).

      Now lets look at a different angle-- as part of a business pilot program I need to install a small database server and add a bunch more software to some of the workstations. Open source provides for very little beurocratic buyoff while proprietary software licensing will slow this process down.

      --

      LedgerSMB: Open source Accounting/ERP
  6. It's a nice thought by nels_tomlinson · · Score: 4, Insightful
    It's a nice thought, but I think that the evidence is a little weak: we have a Linuxworld article, a Novell engineer's blog, and a Harvard academic blathering about disruptive technologies.

    It could happen that MS will become a niche player, but if I had to bet money, I'd bet on MS surviving with a large market share. There's jsut too many people who have budgets to justify, and the one thing that Libre software can't help you do is squander money.

  7. Dear short-term memory editors by Fnkmaster · · Score: 4, Interesting
    After the last LinuxWorld debacle I now refuse to click on LinuxWorld links. For once, I am not reading the article, and for a principled reason. Until LinuxWorld terminates Ms. O'Gara and denounces her page-view-whoring troll tactics, they will get no ad impressions from me.


    This is almost as bad as posting Roland Piquepaille submissions.

    1. Re:Dear short-term memory editors by dtfinch · · Score: 3, Informative

      I don't expect they'll publish any more of Ms. O'Gara's articles. But all the other sites owned by their parent will continue to do so. So the ad revenue will flow.

      The LinuxWorld editors tried to apologize, blaming it on the LinuxBusinessWeek editors and mentioning that several LinuxWorld editors threatened to resign in protest. Since they're both owned by SYS-CON, both infact running basically the same site, they're expected to cross publish certain articles.

      http://www.linuxworld.com/story/46821.htm

      The LinuxBusinessWeek editors on the other hand say they disagree with the LinuxWorld editors about the quality of the article, and that LinuxBusinessWeek stands by that article and look forward to publishing more of Maureen's works. But "We will no longer provide news content to LinuxWorld Magazine's accompanying Web site."

      http://www.linuxbusinessweek.com/story/46854.htm

      So the ad revenue will still flow to the FUD flingers (parent company), but if the LinuxWorld editors have their way the FUD will stop appearing on LinuxWorld, or they'll resign, or they'll get raises.

  8. Just because it's happened before... by airjrdn · · Score: 4, Insightful

    It happened not too long ago in the video card arena....Voodoo anyone?

    I don't doubt open source will dominate in many areas, but I doubt it will overtake Microsoft anytime soon unless there's a major shift torward software compatibility and enhanced intuitiveness for Windows users.

    For instance, I'd switch my Mother to Linux just to degrade her chances of a virus, but 3 or 4 little games she plays; Kyodai Mahjongg (this isn't normal mahjongg) Bubble Shooter (There's a similiar one, but it's got a ways to go to catch up to Bubble Shooter), Bookworm, etc. aren't available on Linux that I know of.

    The other issue is that, people are comfortable with where to go & what to do when there's trouble brewing in Windows. In Linux, even veteran Windows users are often at a loss.

    If you do something wrong installing video drivers in Windows, you get a smack on the hand by the OS forcing you to 640x480, where you have to deal with what you did. Make that same mistake in Linux, and without knowing what file to edit in a command line editor, most Linux newbies are looking at an OS reinstall. That's way too harsh and unfortunately, drives users right back into the open arms of Microsoft.

    Heh a blunder

    1. Re:Just because it's happened before... by Yaztromo · · Score: 4, Interesting
      For instance, I'd switch my Mother to Linux just to degrade her chances of a virus, but 3 or 4 little games she plays; Kyodai Mahjongg (this isn't normal mahjongg) Bubble Shooter (There's a similiar one, but it's got a ways to go to catch up to Bubble Shooter), Bookworm, etc. aren't available on Linux that I know of.

      I upgraded my mother to Linux a few years ago (RedHat 8.0), and she's been exceedingly happy with it. Indeed, Bubble Shooter is one of her favorite games as well, and its developer (Absolutist) does indeed have a Linux version, which is identical to its Windows counterpart.

      Mom-On-Linux (MOL) has had some major advantages. If her system needs maintenence, I can easily do it remotely through SSH, can can even export X apps (it helps that we're both on the same broadband network, mind you). Plus, as she doesn't have root access, she can't mess anything up. And wheras I had to watse a few days the last time my brother got a major virus infestation on his Windows laptop, Mom's machine is completely immune.

      Mom's happy because she gets to run the games she likes, run Mozilla, and check her e-mail. I'm happy because the machine hums along problem-free without my constantly receiving calls from her asking for assistance or for routine maintanence.

      (Mind you, since I bought myself my Apple PowerBook, and shoed her a picture of the new iMac G5, I think she's wanting an "upgrade" :) ).

      Yaz.

    2. Re:Just because it's happened before... by Bostik · · Score: 2, Interesting

      For instance, I'd switch my Mother to Linux just to degrade her chances of a virus, but 3 or 4 little games she plays; Kyodai Mahjongg (this isn't normal mahjongg) Bubble Shooter (There's a similiar one, but it's got a ways to go to catch up to Bubble Shooter), Bookworm, etc. aren't available on Linux that I know of.

      Bubble Shooter looks an awfully lot like Frozen Bubble (which in turn is a revision of some really old game). I admit that Frozen Bubble's game areas look more cramped. As for Kyodai, I fail to see what people praise in it. Sure, it's 3D and has quite pleasant sound-world - but it still is a damn solitaire. Real Mah-Jong is a great game and these solitaire versions have as much in common with Mah-Jong as Windows's default Solitaire has with Poker or Bridge. This is real Mah-Jong. Great social game. The computer version is suitably quite close to the real thing.

      Now, for Bookworm... I'd love to have the dedicated client for Linux. Applet version works nicely but for some reason Mozilla/Firefox+plugins don't always work seamlessly. (Flash sometimes leaves sound unusable until browser is restarted, Java-plugin doesn't exit and hogs memory in the same manner.)

      The other issue is that, people are comfortable with where to go & what to do when there's trouble brewing in Windows. In Linux, even veteran Windows users are often at a loss./

      You certainly have a point there, but...

      1. Newton's law of inertia applies equally well to masses of people.
      2. I am willing to say that your claim holds true also the other way round. People who are at home configuring *nix, find themselves at a fairly big loss when confronted with a malfunctioning Windows installation. The systems are really far apart both philosophically and fundamentally. I know I get a headache on those infrequent occasions when I have to work out where something was configured in Windows. Say what you will, the UI is not intuitive.

      If you do something wrong installing video drivers in Windows, you get a smack on the hand by the OS forcing you to 640x480, where you have to deal with what you did.

      Actually, something quite similar could be done for Linux. If and when X has trouble starting because of screwed-up hardware and/or configuration, it fails to start. It would be quite simple to hook this failure signal with a configurator that allows one to retry. -- Now, I said that would be simple. Making the setup intuitive and moreover, robust, is the hard part. My hunch is that writing this for one distribution would take perhaps 4 months. Making it universally available and able to custom-fit for various different distributions is probably another year. Ironing out bugs and corner-case glitches is like any software project: an ongoing voyage. Not at all that easy.

      So what am I saying? You have a point. But for games, there is actually quite a nice selection available. (Incidentally, I'm considering to try out Puzzle Pirates. Yes, they do have a Linux client as well.)

      --
      There is no such thing as good luck. There is only misfortune and its occasional absence.
  9. Interesting but.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Call me ambivilant, but so what? I find it irrelevant to wonder whether Linux or open source software in general will perhaps have the greatest market share at some vague point in the future.

    The fact is there's a lot open source software available that solves problems now and solves them well. I use it exclusively at home and at work because I like the general philosophy and more importantly because it gets the stuff I need to do done.

    Whether or not Microsoft lives or dies or becomes a smaller company is (for me at least) not important. This may not be true if your business relies heavily on Microsoft products and/or apis.

  10. Article in Desktoplinux.com by at_slashdot · · Score: 3, Informative

    Desktop Linux has just published this article: The Best Free Desktop Linux . . . and how to make it better

    This is a great article that shows what a Desktop Linux could do. It's a great piece for Linux advocates to forward to people who'd like to switch but think that "Linux is way too hard to install and use".

    0$ price it's very hard to beat, I expect that the forces of the economy will swipe MS away as soon that people realize that they could do with Linux the same things they do with Windows (only more secure and cheaper) . Good times ahead :)

    --
    "It is our choices, Harry, that show what we truly are, far more than our abilities." -- Prof. Dumbledore
  11. Brazil by LordMyren · · Score: 3, Insightful

    its going to be brought about by Brazil, India and Germany when they hire a couple guys to sit down and hack some software to deploy linux to their COUNTRY.

    linux remains a very difficult thing to deploy. there are going to have to be better tools for centralized system management before linux can roll out and roll over microsoft. corporations arent the place to foot the development of these rollout-configurators, countries could concievably be. in the end, everyone will benefit.

    i'd say when a country doesnt have much difficulty doing installing linux, microsoft is going to have a hard time justifying themselves. thats a long way to go though; we're talking automagic kerberos+ldap /w unified userdb for nfs, samba, ftp, web, shell and a powerful web admin system. good outward scalability. i mean, hell, dragonfly bsd might have a better chance than linux when you think of how far there is to go. ;)

    Myren

    1. Re:Brazil by drinkypoo · · Score: 2, Informative

      Strongly disagree. Linux is much easier to deploy than windows. With windows NT, if you make a system image, you can't deploy it on (typically) even a slightly different system or you will get an INACCESSIBLE_BOOT_DEVICE error at boot time. I've heard people say that you can use the generic IDE drivers but that doesn't work with all systems, and you will then have to go manually change the ide drivers to suit the new system. With Linux, you can either compile in support for everything, or use a big initrd and use modules, either way your system will come up and "just work" provided you follow some simple rules between machines, like making the hard disk the primary master.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  12. Microsoft helping Open Source by kafka47 · · Score: 5, Interesting
    Microsoft has helped the Open source revolution happen.

    Look at the UI. Look at the applications. The basic look and feel hasn't changed significantly since 1995. Almost every new technology "innovation" has been either bought or copied (poorly) by Microsoft.

    OSS' growth has been more viral, more grassroots, more innovative than the top-down "we know better than you" approach that Microsoft has successfully imposed on its users in the last 5 years. It is with this suppression of innovation that Microsoft has directly spawned and contributed to the open-source revolution!

    On another note, after 10 years on Wintel, I switched to Macintosh recently. After 5 minutes inside of OSX, I experienced more innovation and creativity than I had on Windows for as long as I can recall.

    Thank-you Microsoft for helping me switch to truly useable applications.

  13. Will take some time by einhverfr · · Score: 4, Informative

    I am a consultant with many small business customers. A few are pondering the use of Linux (I charge more for monthly maintenance of Windows systems because they take more of my time). But there are a few obstacles which completely prevent a few of them from using Linux (these are sufficiently small businesses not to have any dedicated servers).

    The largest obstacle is that many of these businesses depend on vertically targetted web sites and programs which may not work on Linux. Yes, we could get many of these to work probable with Win4Lin or Crossover. However, the uncertainty and supportability is an issue.

    But other clients of mine are already committing to Linux. In one case, we saved $20,000 for a customer in license fees alone, not to mention the support costs in network simplification by using Linux-based VPN appliances rather than an equivalent on Windows. In another case, we have a very successful Linux desktop deployment. In another case, we have a customer thinking about switching so he doesn't have to pay me to swing by every month to run a spyware/virus scan.

    It will happen, but slowly.

    --

    LedgerSMB: Open source Accounting/ERP
    1. Re:Will take some time by einhverfr · · Score: 3, Informative

      So what do you suppose would be the turning point for your customers pondering Linux?

      How much would have to change or improve for them to decide in a wholesale way to jump ship.


      They would need a guaranteed way of running the applications that they require in a supported way.

      Let me give you an example. A local insurance agency is a customer of mine. They connect to a terminal server in New York to do most of their work so in theory maybe rdesktop would be a good solution. In practice, it isn't so simple. The server uses propritary and Windows-only software (Simplify printing) to redirect the printers. And they also need to access IE-only sites like Safeco as well as use Windows-only tools such as those for IBQ and Progressive. I could sell them on the Linux solution easily if these problems were solved.


      Or do you think that it will continue to go the way it's going now, step by step. A sort of glacier movement, slow but impossible to stop...?


      For now. I think that when Linux desktop market share starts to move faster (spurred by adoption by large businesses) that the dam will start to break. With Munich, Brazil, and possibly Paris, this could also start to move faster.

      --

      LedgerSMB: Open source Accounting/ERP
  14. MS Does care by einhverfr · · Score: 4, Insightful

    MS is faced with a problem. Their major money makers are Windows and Office, both of which are facing rapidly maturing competition from open source alternatives. They can continue to try to grow their market, but it will not be easy (must combat piracy in the third world, and expand the markets for those two products elsewhere). Their other products and services are two small to deliver the revenue that Microsoft and their stockholders expect.

    So what happens as Linux and OpenOffice expand? The cost of bringing Windows and Office to market is astronomical, and the cost to produce each unit is very small, so each sale lost hits Microsoft surprisingly hard.

    This quest to expand the market shows up in Media Center and Automotive editions of Windows, and in the new services which come as a part of office.

    There is a problem. I have learned that if you "innovate" for the sake of innovation, your ideas will be only useful to a few, and the good enough solution takes over. I don;t see a unifying strategy for Microsoft anymore. Disclaimer: I am a former Microsoftie.

    I see Microsoft as going down surprisingly quickly. It won't take long once the tipping point is actually reached (maybe with Linux hitting 10 or 20 percent of the desktop).

    --

    LedgerSMB: Open source Accounting/ERP
  15. FF by Southpaw018 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Just look at Firefox - it's currently the subject of an enourmous grassroots movement. SFX just signed up over 10,000 people in 8 days for their New York Times ad. FF has been downloaded over 6.8 million times now. People are taking notice; there have been discussions here on /. estimating the "geek" usage at 90%. And I wouldn't doubt it.

    --
    ACs are modded -6. I don't read you, I don't mod you, I don't see you. Don't like it? Don't be a coward.
  16. Bla bla bla by sn0wflake · · Score: 2, Informative

    I'm sorry to say that Linux will not win over Windows as long as you can't play new games like The Sims 2 or do simple things without opening a console. Yes, I know that DirectX is closed-source and I know that Linux is a very smart OS. But Linux is way to hard to learn and configure. I've tried many times to convert to Linux and everytime I'm missing a game or simply don't want to read the telephone sized FAQ's. Doing simple tasks like changing screen resolution should not involve opening a console and typing in obscure commands. I know I'll get modded down, but seriously Linux guys. Face it, Linux is to hard for normal users to use. Mom users like their puzzle bubble and surfing the web with Mozilla, but as a Joe Smoe user I can only say that using Linux for everyday tasks is still way too hard and I don't want to invest years just to learn Linux when Windows simply work with a click of a mouse.

    1. Re:Bla bla bla by toddestan · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The Console is one of the things that's holding Linux back. Right now Linux is good for either geeks who are comfortable with the command line, or people like my Mom who just uses the system and is content with the preinstalled packages and default settings (provided they "just work").

      The kind of user who doesn't really know as much as we do about computers, but still wants to install some software or tweak some options is the type that really gets turned off of Linux. They don't want to use the command line, or poke around in /etc. They just want to do be able to easily do stuff. And this is the majority of computer users out there.

      Linux really needs to be like OS X, you have a powerful command line, but if you don't want to - you never have to touch it. Windows is simular, you almost never have to touch DOS either, unless you want to (ipconfig.exe is the one, big, glaring exception to that).

      The good news is, we're almost to that point with some of the newest Linux distro's.

  17. Couple points though by einhverfr · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Not sure if you are trolling. But anyways....

    Businesses tend to be risk adverse, which is generally a good thing. This means also that they are afraid of change. So this slows down Linux quite a bit.

    Home users tend to stick with what they use at work. So until Linux takes over on the corporate workstation, it will be a slow tough fight.

    All that being said, I think that Linux will kill windows. It will just be a slow process until a certain market share is reached. At this point application compatibility will be less of an issue. But progress is occuring much faster than some people realize: Linux is certainly killing proprietary UNIX (as is Windows), and the fate of OS X is uncertain, though I suspect that it will slowly be open sourced bit by bit, and they may slowly subsume eachother.....

    Consider that 5% of the PC's which shipped last year ran Linux (mostly Linspire and Mandrake). Even after you count those where Windows was later installed, that was still up to three percent of *new* PC sales. Yes, Microsoft's monopoly has begun to collapse already. This year, maybe, it will be more.

    Linux is already causing Microsoft real headaches in a few very key markets such as internet server and embedded system markets. The real beacheads are business web application development, desktop, and groupware now. But it is a slow process at the moment and will be for some time. I do predict though that it will be a fierce war for the desktop by the time Longhorn ships.

    BTW, Linux has been good enough for the desktop for the last 5 years. It is just getting better :-)

    Also, Microsoft's last year of record profits was the year XP was launched. This is to be expected. But their market share is another question-- how do you measure market share? In dollars? If so then the slow demise of proprietary UNIX and Netware gives Microsoft greatly inflated numbers. If in deployments, then the simple answer is: we don't really know what real numbers are because we have no good way of measuring them.

    Now, is there a tipping point? You bet. At a certain point, people won't write their business web tools for IE only (as Safeco does). Vertically targetted tools will be available for Linux, etc. and all basic productivity tools will be open source. At this point, I expect Linux useage to take off much faster.

    --

    LedgerSMB: Open source Accounting/ERP
  18. Hate to disagree but by ewe2 · · Score: 2, Informative

    Most of this article just extrapolated corporate WishThink. The "inevitability" of the end of MS blissfully ignores the dependence of hardware manufacturers at one end, and the GUI-dependence of users at the other. Nor is the OS a done deal, and most of the "commoditization" of office apps is still Microsoft OS-based, whatever the attractions of OpenOffice/StarOffice.

    I can't hammer this point enough: MS has a gatekeeper mentality because it IS the gatekeeper. That is what needs to change. If MS could shoot down the GPL, it would not hesitate to sell an MS shell over a linux core, if it can justify dumping the NT asset. Okay, that's two if's but they're realistic if's. Otherwise, MS will stay put and strong-arm everyone.

    What linux needs is shrink-wrapped POS systems. Shrink-wrapped accounting/stock-management. Take out those dependencies and you'll get a huge slice of market share.

    --
    insecurity asks the wrong question irritation gives the wrong answer
  19. Not tipping quite yet... by smug_lisp_weenie · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Open source has two main strengths:
    1. quality
    2. easy fixes/improvements

    The minor successes so far I think are clearly due to quality: Even mainstream technology enthusiasts can recognize that Apache, Firefox, and a few other tools are super-solid and finely-tuned applications.

    But appreciation for a specific application does not translate into success for open-source as a whole, because it does not engage the user in the paradigm of open source.

    But someday, the second strength of open source will become more evident: The ease with which it can be fixed and improved, and by this I mean improvements that are personal and specific to the user, something that is still very rare and unappreciated.

    Consider, for instance, an average user of a mail program muttering to him/herself "I wish my email program could set off my alarm clock if I get an early email from work in the morning..." Suppose that person could post $100 improvement fee to a website, where it might be merged with similar requests from other users and leads to a new extension to be developed by an independent developer...

    This idea is often discussed, but it is still only in its infancy. However, I believe it is critical for the success of open source, because it both engages the user in the OS philosophy and also allows a viable financial model to exist for mainstream software companies to participate in the OS revolution.

    How can we make this happen?

  20. lilo loading by codepunk · · Score: 3, Interesting

    While watching american casino on discovery last week I seen a tech converting a slot machine to take coins instead of dollars. He started up the machine and the camera panned to the screen. The first thing that appeard on the screen was?

    lilo loading ....

    The slide has already begun!

    --


    Got Code?
  21. Question by HangingChad · · Score: 2, Funny
    In one case, we saved $20,000 for a customer in license fees alone...

    Was that OS and productivity software, or just the OS? I've had customers save considerably more just on the productivity software.

    But I think we'll get the whole package when it comes upgrade time. When staff are already using OSS productivity and browser software replacing the OS isn't all that hard.

    This may sound strange but one customer was all hot over Linux when he found out his employees couldn't install Weather Bug. I suppose a good consultant would have told him he could lock the Windows users down the same way, but it was such an insightful moment I didn't have the heart.

    --
    That's our life, the big wheel of shit. - The Fat Man, Blue Tango Salvage
  22. The key is Myth busting by vwjeff · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I work for my local school district as a PC tech. We have 12 primary, 2 secondary, 1 high school, and a central office. All network traffic from the primary and secondary schools plus the central office is routed to the high school over ISDN lines to the high school. There we have 4 T1s.

    All of our schools except for the high school have always had slow internet connections due to the ISDN line. We don't have the budget to install T1s for all of our buildings. In the past I had suggested using a Squid proxy at each remote building to save on traffic going to the High School. He said he had never hear of this "Squid" thing and asked me about it. I told him it was a free proxy web cache server that runs on Linux. He sounded interested until I mentioned the words free and Linux. Instead my boss, after I warned him many times, decided to buy an underpowered 3com webcache appliance and put it at the high school. The appliance was rated for a medium sized business (100-500 computers) Our district has over 3000 computers, 1000 of which are at the high school. Even at the high school this device is not adequate. As a result, network performance has not improved anywhere and has decreased at the high school due to the bottleneck. Did I mention the cost of this device was $11,500.

    After one of the computer labs of the high school was upgraded we had a surplus of 30 350 Mhz computers. During the summer we are usually installing new labs and installing new servers because all of the childeren are gone. Since all of the labs and servers and been installed there wasn't much more for me to do. My boss asked me to strip down the 30 computers and save any usable parts. I was to then recycle the parts that were not needed. I asked my boss if I could use 14 computers to test software on. Without questioning me he said yes.

    For the next week I installed Trustix Linux on the 14 computers along with Squid, configured as transparent, and Sarg. Originally each computer had 128 MB RAM and a 6 GB hard drive. I decided to up the memory to 256 and install a second hard drive in each computer. One drive has the OS installed on it and the other drive is for the cached content.

    After testing each machine I installed them at the schools. School started and the proxies worked great. My boss got a call from a Principal at one of the secondary schools. He asked how our department came up with the money to upgrade our network. My boss told him we hadn't upgraded anything as far as the network goes. He told me about this call during lunch that day and I told him it was because of the Squid proxy servers I had installed over the summer. He said to me with a confused look on his face, "Oh, ok. Well next time you want to install something let me know first." After lunch I showed him Sarg. He was impressed with all of the information available. I think in the future he may be more open to open source software. (Firefox will be my next project!)

    If you have read to this point I thank you. The lesson I learned from this situation was that free open source software is looked down upon by some IT managers or those who make the final decisions. The common wisdom by some is since it's free it must not be good. This concept is hard for a Linux user like myself to grasp. I knew all along that a free and scalable alternative was available but my boss still decided to buy the 3com because it was expensive. It must be good if you have to pay for it right?

  23. One more thing by einhverfr · · Score: 2, Interesting

    The huge stock buyback/dividend they just paid off will have reduced their cash reserves to very little in the end.

    now... what will happen to Microsoft? Will they survive?

    Yes. But it will look very different from Microsoft today. Reminds me of a paper and rubber company called Nokia and a company like Montana Power (which now makes computers). Personally, I think Microsoft will become a media company, but that is just wild speculation.

    --

    LedgerSMB: Open source Accounting/ERP
  24. Mom-On-Linux (MOL) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    The only example I know, is my friend's mom, she's someone that is medical program cdrom install happy. That women aquired so many different apps, looking at here windows program menu was going to make my head spin. It all looks like generic software packs offered at a clearance discount from places like SAMs or the TV.

    I guess where I'm going is that, MOL doesn't work here, because all this crap she bought is for Windows, and I don't need to continue this paragraph...

    OTOH, a lot of these resources and crap applications are being turned into internet accessible apps where the browser is the platform. I tried Turbotax Web with either Mozilla or Konquerer (I can't remember), and it worked great. As others have said, the more of this that goes on, the more irrelevant the underlying OS is.

    I don't see the threat to MS as so much the linux threat, rather than the OSS threat, as it is many OSS apps like apache and firefox that run fine under windows but happen to be crossplatform and standards compliant among other things.

    We all know linux has many advantages given certain circumstances, and overall it keeps getting better. There are plenty of problems that still need to be addressed, but at this point, a tipping-point is at least plausible.

    Personally I'm too much of a wimp to push MOL, but I think things will only get better, in part because so many companies and individuals are working to escape the MS monopoly and provide a viable alternaive. Strangely enough, it seems to be working.

  25. Applications are Key by Dan+Farina · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I disagree. They could ALREADY sell a MS shell over a *BSD core, just as Apple has. Linux is not their only option, the BSDs are incredibly robust and advanced operating systems and MS wouldn't have to fight the GPL. I would argue that it would be even be an easier transition than using Linux since it's developed by a smaller and more centralized authority rather than total bazaar style development.

    I would suspect the reason is applications; Microsoft is making money hand over fist on the current 9x/NT based systems, so why try to fix a system that's already pulling in more dough than the corporation knows what to do with?

    Secondly an adoption of a core that was once open source means that without serious overhauling that current *NIX-compatable sources will be (relatively) easy to modify applications to run on "Windows POSIX Edition" That means more applications will be available to your competitors.

    Apple had something to gain from this: they have small market share and were switching to a new kernel in OS X, losing their old applications, but started out with a significant boost because *NIX sources were not terribly difficult (relative to *NIXwindows ports) to coax to run on OS X. Microsoft would be doing the opposite, it would be opening a bunch of vital applications to "alternative" operating systems, making them far better competitors and far more lethal to their dominance.

  26. My prediction by crazyphilman · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Individual people are starting to get really annoyed about Windows. You hear them kvetching all the time, "My computer screwed up again", "My email's all messed up", "I think I've got a virus or something, my PC's acting funny"... You hear it at work, you hear it on the web. It's a much bigger deal than all these "business pundit" types imagine. People will change the way they do things to avoid aggravation, no matter WHAT they're told to do by Microsoft or the tech pundit of the week.

    Prediction Number One:

    The people who will adopt Linux first are actually the home users everyone thinks will go last. The reasons are easy enough:

    1. It's free.
    2. It's easy enough to install and the UI is familiar enough for them to use it comfortably, especially with KDE. Plus, it does everything a home user typically does (word processing, web browsing, email) much better than Windows would.
    3. It's free.
    4. There is a LOT of info online about how to do Linux-related things, and people are getting used to Googling for information. This is true despite the constant assertion by techno-snobs that Joe Sixpack is too stupid or lazy to do this. Maybe they forgot to tell Joe.
    5. It's free.
    6. Unlike a business, there's no boss to tell you that you can't switch to Linux.
    7. It's free.
    8. Home users will feel cool and hackerish using Linux -- they'll feel they're clued in to something, hip and different. People DO care about this. It turns 'em on, and makes them look cool to their friends. Social capital -- don't underestimate it.
    9. It's free.

    People are going to say this is bullshit. But look how many people are picking up Firefox. It's clear they have the initiative to try new things when they're annoyed enough. And they're definitely annoyed.

    Prediction Number Two:

    People with enough money to buy a Mac are going to switch to Mac OS/X in larger numbers, faster, than the x86 crowd, because of the "cool" factor. Most artists, writers, etc, already use Macs. They're very trendy computers. And the more rich/popular people use Macs, the more regular people will see changing to something different as an attractive thing. So Mac use will foster eventual Linux use among people who can't afford Macs.

    Prediction Number Three:

    The holdouts will be organizations which are averse to change, which move glacially. Governments, for example. Individual departments might switch over, but as a whole, it'll be slow going. I know MY shop will be among the last to change over. There's a whole cultural pro-Windows bias there. I see any transition happening on the server-side first, because we're already running some unix boxen and that transition would be the easiest. We're talking far backend, not middleware or frontend, here.

    Some private companies might be slow to switch over, too, because of their investment in custom software, and their lack of Linux-related expertise. THIS transition is going to be very painful.

    So, here it is in a nutshell:

    Rich/affluent people: Mac OS/X on fast machines.

    Regular people: Mostly switching to some form of Linux, whichever gets buzz for being easiest to install and manage.

    Techies: Linux or OS/X depending on relative wealth. Maybe both in lots of cases.

    Small, fast companies: Linux or *BSD.

    Large, cautious companies: Windows for many years.

    Government: Mixed bag.

    --
    Farewell! It's been a fine buncha years!
  27. The problem with predictions like this by marktaw.com · · Score: 2, Insightful

    ... is that one day they'll be right, and everyone that said it in the past will suddenly be thought of as prophets. If you back enough new trends, eventually you'll pick one that hits the big time.

  28. Re:Where can I download MKS Toolkit? by swillden · · Score: 3, Funny

    I've paid for it 3 times, that's enough. Where can I get the latest version for gratis?

    http://cygwin.com

    --
    Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
  29. eesy peesy by sonictheboom · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Run a small business, just got a couple of P3 Compaqs quite cheap.
    Decided thats its time to push Linux to the great unwashed masses, so installed Mepis on the P3s - took about 20 minutes (maybe 10 clicks of the mouse , did the user name thing, didn't really have to think about it).

    Handed over to the sales guys. Told them - this is your userid, password; this is for web, this is for text documents (you know, Word). Leave.

    An hour later the guys show up on MSN, doing their stuff. No complaints. No questions. No support.

    Maybe Linus is wrong about the Desktop market - can't expect him to be in the know about EVERYTHING. :-)

  30. Linux growth has never reversed by 21chrisp · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I think the most important aspect of Linux growth is that it does not seem to have ever gone down. Linux has gradually grown year after year. Now that it is much more mature, it should continue to do the same. Even if it maintains it's present rate, it seems likely that Linux will achieve at least significant market share, if not dominance, in many of our lifetimes.

    Also, the article does not mention that growth rates are almost always exponential. If Linux continues to grow market share like it is, it will begin to grow at a much more rapid rate. The reason for this is word of mouth. Linux share is now in the 3-4% range. That means 3 or 4 people out of 100 use it (on the desktop). That means chances are that the average person doesn't know anyone who actually USES Linux. But once you hit the 10% range, that's 1 in 10 people that use Linux. Suddenly many more people know someone that uses Linux, and many will probably be willing to give a try. Suddenly you're shooting up to 25% share and you're in the trend/fad range. At this point momentum will usually swing completely in your favour. Not are you the trend, you're comeptition is looking poor for losing so much share. Chances are that at this point, market share will flip-flop and the underdog will be the leader. The Desktop OS market isn't like most other markets where there is a lot room for competition. It's very much a single product dominated market. It will likely always be that way. If GNU/Linux succeeds, however, it iss likely to also share a fair amount of success w/ other open source OSes like BSD.

  31. Re:Linux won't take off, its the games stupid by polyp2000 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I am afraid that is simply not the case Most PC's are bought by companies fitting out their offices with servers and general purpose desktops.

    In fact, it is widely beleived that the PC as a gaming platform is declining due to rising problems with piracy and the market dominance of consoles such as the Gamecube, PS2 and XBox by an large offer a much better return on investment than PC games.

    DirectX games do not rule the world. DirectX is a facilitator for games. It doesnt matter whether a game uses Direct3D or OpenGL its the game, and its gameplay that matters most. Also you might have noticed that many of the next gen card manufacturers (NVidia & ATI) are offering OpenGL support in addition to DirectX. You might also notice that many of your favorite 3D games have a video setting for OpenGL. This is something you will find more and more often as it is much easier for software developers to write a Crossplatform/console game using an Open/Crossplatform 3D graphics library than it is with a closed one such as D3D.

    --
    Electronic Music Made Using Linux http://soundcloud.com/polyp