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What's Going On in Canada?
Jack Action writes "Up in Canada, the Privacy Commissioner of the province of British Columbia is recommending an immediate freeze on all outsourcing of public data to US-connected firms, Reuters and the CBC are reporting. After extensive consultations, the Privacy Commissioner has found that the USA Patriot Act threatens the private data of citizens even if they don't live in the USA (repeat: non-Americans are at risk). You can visit the Commissioners website, and download a summary or the full report." And reader digity writes "The long-standing Canadian battle on grey-market satellite dishes took a surprising turn in a Quebec courtroom yesterday. The grounds: freedom of expression. Yet another reason to come to the Great White North!"
Is it me or does it seem like the US is quickly losing it's place as the center of the business world? This seems especially true in the technology sector where anytime a company does something they have to look over their backs for some other company sitting on a patent, or a DMCA violation claim coming their way. This just seems like one more for the pile of reasons to do your business outside the U.S.
As a UK citizen, the US government has decided that it has a right to collect any information about me that it chooses, from any agency in the UK (because we are Americas lap dog and would never dream of saying no), and then use that info as it sees fit. My data is not protected in any way because I am not a US citizen.
Nice to see that Canada has the balls to stand up the the USA.
Seriously folks, what does the patriot act allow the US government to do that it wasn't able to do before, just illegally?
It allows it to do bad things legally. Any other questions?
Shouldn't that be: "What's going on in the USA?"
What's going on in the USA is that we're in the process of forfeiting our economic dominance by screwing up our legal system such that doing business with American companies is becoming more of a pain in the ass than it's worth. It's not like there are many industries where we enjoy a monopoly any more, and these kind of laws are just further incentive for other countries to take their business elsewhere.
It has nothing to do with where the data is actually stored.
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Case and point.
Up here, Royal Bank of Canada's credit card business is outsourced to a U.S. firm. Because of this setup, this U.S. credit card firm has to give up RBC customer data to government officials if they use the Patriot Act to get at it.
http://canadaeast.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID
So, let's say (hypothetically) that the scenario is flipped around. So instead of RBC outsourcing to the U.S., we're talking about Chase Manhattan, and they've outsourced their credit card business to RBC. I think it'd be pretty safe to say that credit card data would still be accessible to the U.S. government through the Patriot Act.
I think this would be the case for any company that incorporates in the states, no matter where their head office or data is.
The US is no longer considered the ideal place for many types of businesses, and anti-american sentiments are definitely growing in europe and asia.
And for good reasons. I know I'll be taunted and modded down by the bible bashing extreme right wingers (and supporters) for saying this, but to quote Michael Moore, spreading democracy through the barrel of a gun rarely works.
But I digress. From a business perspective, patent and copyright systems in the US is broken and are not working as intended. The efforts to force these broken systems upon the rest of the world (to protect american companies and interests) is not going down to well. The US is being seen as the spoilt brat that when things doesn't go its way, it throws all the toys out of the pram.
Over time, if the attitude and behaviour of the US increases in hostility, the US will find itself more and more isolated and possible facing sanctions or trade embargoes. Before you mod me down as a troll, take a second to listen to me and try and comprehend what I am saying.
The US people have got to realise that the words 'compromise' and 'diplomacy' will get them a lot further in a medium/long term perspective than 'aggression' and 'shock and awe tactics' will. A level playing field, a little more understanding and less of the arrogance and favouritism currently in place will quickly change the perception of the US, and hence there will be little reason for other countries to put things in place like Canada has done.
With more and more privacy-invading legislation being installed, the US will rapidly become unusable to any business that has trade secrets to protect, or deals with private customer data.
It is the same with UK and companies that trade in EMEA. UK has, due to its policies of mimicking US, been deemed unsuitable to store encryption keys in. Other european countries have saner laws and subsequently been deemed as more suitable to be the location where said keys are stored.
The laws that are being passed in UK and US to prevent terrorism have little or nothing to do with preventing terrorism and everything to do with installing a police state as a precursor to some form of dictatorship. Sorry if that view offends, but that is what it looks like from here...
Swedish, but resident in the UK since 1996.
First of all, entrenching formerly illegal actions into law is NOT a good thing. The fact that they were being done before isn't a valid reason at all to make them legal.
Secondly, this law allows the US government to compel American companies operating in foreign countries to secretly hand over information on foreign employees, in violation of that country's laws. THAT'S why BC is raising the red flag on this one.
"People who do stupid things with hazardous materials often die." -- Jim Davidson on alt.folklore.urban
LOL! Do you really thing the DPR will act against the USA. It's simple: the US has told the UK that it will bar entry to flights from the UK and UK citizens for whom full data records are not handed over. In the interest, of course, of 'security' and 'prevention of terrorism'. The US is starting to make the old USSR look enlightened in its entry requirements.
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USA: home of the world's largest terrorist training camp.
The US people have got to realise that the words 'compromise' and 'diplomacy' will get them a lot further
Actually most "US people" do realize that. The problem is that as far as "Intellectual Property" laws and various treaties the people are entirely oblivious to what is going on. And as for Iraq and the 'War on Terrorism', a great many people have been deceived and believe we *have* had compromise and diplomacy and honest relations with the world. Many Americans are under the mistaken impression that most of the world (and our allies) generally support Bush and the US's invasion of Iraq and our terrorism efforts, or that world oppinion is at least neutral. Most Americans have no idea how badly Bush has alienated out allies and ruined our global relationships and support.
Some Americans do realize the problem and are attempting a local "regime change" in this election, other Americans have been deceived, but then of course there are also a small number of nutjobs. For example that report was posted on Free Reublic website (radical right-wing nutjobs) and naturally those loons somehow managed to rationalize global opposition as a GOOD thing. Yeahhhhh... those evil Norwegians only show 7% Bush support because they are jealous and want a "weak America". Sigh.
I'm more horrified at the huge number of people who have been decieved and may elect the next president than the small number of wackos.
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- - You can't take something off the Internet! That's like trying to take pee out of a swimming pool.
Obviously something needs to change. All this terror-paranoia is not normal. We, the Europeans, also suffered attacks in Madrid but we didn't pass laws like that. We didn't get mad. We do fight terror, but we do not destroy our civilisation of democracy and freedom just to catch some crazy terrorists.
I hope the USA legislators will understand that they can fight their enemies without undermining the privacy and freedom of Americans (and the world!). I believe that laws like PATRIOT aren't needed.
BTW I wrote a story with some more information here. As you can read, the probe started in May and produced a report consisted of more than 100 pages. The report was written by OIPC, a Canadian authority on privacy issues in British Columbia.
Actually most "US people" do realize that. The problem is that as far as "Intellectual Property" laws and various treaties the people are entirely oblivious to what is going on. And as for Iraq and the 'War on Terrorism', a great many people have been deceived and believe we *have* had compromise and diplomacy and honest relations with the world. Many Americans are under the mistaken impression that most of the world (and our allies) generally support Bush and the US's invasion of Iraq and our terrorism efforts, or that world oppinion is at least neutral. Most Americans have no idea how badly Bush has alienated out allies and ruined our global relationships and support.
I suspected as much that this was the case. Some people on here keep saying that Fox News is the only source of news that is slanted to the right and that most (all?) the others are slanted towards "commies" and "pinkies" (whatever that is supposed to mean). From what I can tell, watching things like CNN, it is slanted towards the right. Okay, the definition of "right" might be different between Europe and US, but here the general view is that your Democrats are right wing, and your Republicans are even further right.
It is disconcerting how effectively this disinformation has been used in the US, to create the perception that you have the support of the rest of the world while the truth is somewhat different. I can just hope that you get fair elections, no tampering with the result, and that the people elect someone that is less damaging to your nation.
Could the USA survive another 4 years of obscene budget deficits under Bush?
For example that report was posted on Free Reublic website (radical right-wing nutjobs) and naturally those loons somehow managed to rationalize global opposition as a GOOD thing. Yeahhhhh... those evil Norwegians only show 7% Bush support because they are jealous and want a "weak America".
I hear what you are saying and I understand what that website was trying to achieve. I do not think that the rest of the world wants a weak USA, rather we want a fair and just USA that is not the schoolground bully boy.
I hope that the people of USA manages to shake themselves awake and turn the ship around before it is to late. Good luck friends.
Swedish, but resident in the UK since 1996.
This is not even close to the full transcript. The full transcript contains a lot of taunting of the ineptitude of George Bush, in that after the president was informed of the attacks he chose to do nothing and keep listening to the story of the goat. Here's a direct quote of Bin Laden speech(translated): "He thought listening to a child about her goat .. was more important"
I find the American news media tends to self(?) sensor a lot lately, especially when the content is politically motivated. Try Canadian (CBC) or British (BBC) for the true story. If the US citizens don't start insiting on their rights of free speech, they are going to lose them without even realizing it.
Tesla was a genius. Edison however was a overrated hack who liked to torture puppies.
Our society, at a deep, emotional level, is oriented towards competition, not cooperation. There is a winner and then there are the losers. Second place doesn't mean you were really good; it means you failed to win. Cooperation is seen only as a method for gaining a competitive edge against others. Once the competitor is vanquished, the need for cooperation is done.
I wish to stress that not all Americans believe this. Some of us do believe that we and everyone else would be better off if compromise and diplomacy were our modus operandi. But our culture of competition and our respect and admiration for strong, take-charge individuals (e.g. John Wayne) give lie to the statement that "most" Americans believe we'll get farther with compromise and diplomacy.
Yeah, if by "free speech" you mean "allow terrorists to broadcast propoganda with possible underlying go codes for their cells".
Why would they do this when they've no control over which parts of the tape will be shown, whether the original soundtrack or a dubbed translation will be used etc? Just off the top of my head I can think of several more efficient and faster methods - a small advert in a local paper or particular comments in a weblog for example.