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Evoting Problems in Ohio
deus_X_machina writes "The Columbus Dispatch is reporting that a computer error involving one voting-machine cartridge gave President Bush 3,893 extra votes in a Gahanna precinct. Matthew Damschroder, director of the Franklin County Board of Elections, says the cartridge was retested yesterday and there were no problems. He couldn't explain why the computer reader malfunctioned."
As the article says, that's why election-night results are unofficial. They don't just count these things once and then throw them away. It's already been corrected, so it's not even a problem. blah blah blah well what if it wasn't detected blah blah blah. That is a valid concern, but posting this article on slashdot is just flaimbait.
I don't think the article is really concerned with WHO the extra votes were for, it is just indicating that there are problems with a electronic voting system that does not include paper trails to provide a more reliable count. The article is trying to indicate that we should not just blindly trust electronic machines, and I agree with them. Whether the extra votes were for Bush or Kerry is beside the point really.
--David
Yeah, whatever - Fox news would have been all over a story about Kerry getting extra votes, so don't fucking call the media "liberal" because there is more than one media outlet, and they slant both ways.
Really it doesn't matter. The race is over. Bush won. Get over it.
:(
I guess this damn politics section isn't going away.
Personally, I would love to be a diebold programmer who was tasked with stealing this election.
My statement would go into a pair of safe deposit boxes controlled by attorneys with secret instructions to open the contents and make them public if they don't hear from me in 180 days.
I'd have Diebold by the balls.
This is why it would be stupid to try to steal the election this way. It's too hard to keep secret.
Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
What really happened is that fear won. Fear of terrorism, fear of gay marriage, fear of a lot of things. Most of the people I talked to that voted for Bush didn't do so because they thought he was good, they did it because he wasn't Kerry. And vice versa. On top of that only about 30% of eligible voter voted for Bush and if Kerry had won it would have been a similar percentage.
On another topic, what happened to "no taxation without representation"? How easily we forget.
A blog about stuff.
On the total reversal, if Kerry had won, a Replublican STILL wouldn't have tipped a reporter off.. at least in my opinion. This is simply because, as Democrat friends of mine have said, "Democrats are whiners.".
If that Republican gave a shit about democracy and the sanctity of the election system, then he damn well should start talking since that's the only way the problems will get fixed.
It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds. - Captain Hammer
All I hear from the citizens who voted for Kerry is "Let's move to Canada". Yeah right, move away and abandon fighting for democracy in your own country. Instead of fleeing to the Canuck Haven, they should stay and demand a re-election, with paper (trail or ballot) only. The remaining americans might have voted for Bush, but they don't deserve being deceived.
Maybe we deserve this world ?
...would account for GWB's entire lead in Ohio. Keep an eye out, folks.
These errors do not change the election result! Bush won by too big of a margin in Ohio and Florida, any assumption that the machines threw it for Bush would mean that those counties would have had to vote in tremendous numbers for Kerry (like 70%), which is impossible. But that does NOT mean we should not investigate them. In fact it means it is the BEST time to investigate them!
Unfortunately I see way too many Republicans saying "it's those sore loser Democrats trying to cause trouble". And quite a few Democrats saying "this proves the election was wrong"
We MUST investigate these machines. This is the best time to do so, there is now tons of proof that they are screwed up, but the investigation can be just into the machines themselves and the people behind them, without any threat to the stability of our government.
But as long as people keep whining about "sore loser Democrats" or "election was wrong" then it will discourage any investigaton. This is BAD, BAD BAD!! These machines may throw the NEXT election. And Republicans had better realize that a single wild hippie Liberal in the wrong place could use them to throw it toward the left, this is NOT a partisian issue! Everybody should be in agreement that these machines need to be gotten rid of NOW. Don't blow our best chance by making this a partisian mess.
How does this get +1:Insightful? Now, +1:Funny I was expecting, but Insightful?
If you want to win some more votes, stop alienating people, stop calling the president horrible names or stupid euphemisms (Moore, I'm looking right at YOU) every chance you get, and drop the intellectual superiority schtick. We have DIFFERENT, not worse, ideologies...and a year ago many of us broke away and wanted to vote against Bush, but felt alienated and belittled by Democrats who didn't want to represent us, but wanted to be everything Bush was not.
Finally, drop the conspiracy theories. "The Conservative media" is a farce, and insinuating we all take marching orders from Karl Rove is proposterous.
--trb
DISCLAIMER: I'm a libertarian who voted for Bush. While I consider myself a Christian, I'm not a particularly strong one, and I don't attend church.
Now then, I'm glad to see a liberal actually trying to figure out the disconnect liberals have with all those red states instead of dismissing them as "stupid" or "stolen." I think you're missing the point on religion, though.
Christians are never going to flock to the Democractic party until the general attitude of Democrats and their leaders changes. The democratic party is openly hostile to religious people. You talk about bigotry in the south against non-whites and non-fundamentalist Christians. I live in the south, and I don't see this bigotry of which you speak. When I do see, however, is a great deal of bigotry from the democratic party and their mouthpieces towards Christianity. Democrats seem more frightened of fundamentalist Christianity than they do of fundamentalist Islam. I can't remember which party leader it was who said, "We live in an age of fundamentalism--Bush and Bin Laden." This kind of disconnect will not win votes. It is important for the Democratic party to become tolerant of Christianity, and realize that there is a significant distinction between the teachings of Jesus and those of Mohommed, and also in the attitudes of their respective followers.
For instance, Hollywood is one of the primary conduits from which liberal attitudes are broadcast to the nation. Almost invariably, Christianity is portrayed in a negative light in films and on television. Christians are pyschopaths, cult members, rapists, murders, etc. Last night I watched "Drawn Together" on Comedy Central. At one point a character was talking about how gullible the princess character was, that she would believe anything you tell her. Then it cuts to a scene of the princess reading a Bible, and she says, "So, he died on the cross for our sins? Okay, I can believe that!" I'm sure there will be no outcry about that. However, can you imagine what would happen if instead she had been reading the Koran, and said, "So, there's no God but Allah? Sure, I can believe that!" There would be lawsuits, FCC fines and congressional hearings. This is just one of many examples. Democrats need to treat Christianity with the same respect they treat Judaism and Islam. When Mel Gibson actually comes out with a movie that glorifies Christ, he is scorned and attacked.
Until Democrats come to understand that faith in God is not a mental illness, but simply a different attitude than their own, they will never win over Christians. This is one of the primary reasons black voters turned out for the President like never before. They may agree with Democrats on economic issues and civil rights issues, but their faith is more important. The democratic party, the party of tolerance, is intollerant of Christians. My Christian friends feel like the Democratic party simply doesn't want them. Fix this, embrace Christianity and explain that Christian morality needs to be spread by Christians and their ministries and not by the government, and you will see Christians who share Democratic ideas about economics and foreign policy come your way.
We don't have a state-run media we have a media-run state.
You want Democrats to do better in the South? You might want to try not-labeling southerners as slave-owners, racists, and bigots, just because they don't vote your way. Not every southerner owns a pickup truck with the confederate flag painted on the hood, and not everyone who disagrees with you does so out of ignorance or malice.
Insofar as you turn this into a political flame war, you're just distracting people from the real issue-- the use of electronic voting either needs to be reformed or ended.
For instance, Hollywood is one of the primary conduits from which liberal attitudes are broadcast to the nation. Almost invariably, Christianity is portrayed in a negative light in films and on television. Christians are pyschopaths, cult members, rapists, murders, etc. Last night I watched "Drawn Together" on Comedy Central. At one point a character was talking about how gullible the princess character was, that she would believe anything you tell her. Then it cuts to a scene of the princess reading a Bible, and she says, "So, he died on the cross for our sins? Okay, I can believe that!" I'm sure there will be no outcry about that. However, can you imagine what would happen if instead she had been reading the Koran, and said, "So, there's no God but Allah? Sure, I can believe that!" There would be lawsuits, FCC fines and congressional hearings. This is just one of many examples. Democrats need to treat Christianity with the same respect they treat Judaism and Islam. When Mel Gibson actually comes out with a movie that glorifies Christ, he is scorned and attacked.
I would have laughed my ass off if they made a joke about the Qoran, but alas they didn't. My main reason for being antagonistic towards Christians is that they are antagonistic towards me. I've been called a baby killer because I am pro-choice, I have been called evil because I'm an atheist. The damn Christians just won't leave me alone, they want to teach creationism in our schools, they want people to pledge their allegence to their god etc.
I honestly feel like going on a crusade against all religions. Fundamentalist Islam is very violent, but go back about 7 centuries or so and you will find Christianity was very violent and Islam was tolerant. The lesson? Any religion can be abused for political gain, and the more false promises you make to people about heaven and martrydom, the more feverent they become.
Religion was a quanit little idea, a way to attempt to explain the universe around us before the invention of microscopes and telescopes. However, it is completely useless in modern days, and just halts the progress of humanity. I yearn for the day when there are no churches, no mosques, no Hindu temples, no Buddhist shrines, no sinogogues, just people, people who realize that we are only around here for a short time and the best way to get through that is to help everyone out. Until then I will be indignant towards Christians, Jews, Muslims etc, esp. if they feel it's their duty to tell me what a horrible human being I am for not believing in their version of "Truth"
Monstar L
Religion was a quanit little idea, a way to attempt to explain the universe around us before the invention of microscopes and telescopes.
And that is why the democratic party will never win those red states back. QED. You completely dismiss as quaint and backwards something that is a fundamental part of someone else's life...and then you want them to give you their support. It won't happen.
Bush likes to talk about "reaching out" to those who disagree with him. That's what the democrats need to do if they're going to attract Christians. They need to reach out to them, without the antagonization and without condescension, and find common ground. There are Christians who believe in a progressive tax system. There are MANY Christians who are pascifists and believe America's foreign policy is on the wrong track. Bring these people to your table by compromising with them on religion.
Next time you encounter a Christian who votes for Bush because of moral values, sit down with them and have this conversion. Say, "I respect your faith although I do not share it. We have values common to all Americans, which stem from the faith of the Founders. These are values like freedom, fair play, and basic human rights. The teachings of Jesus bear these out. We in the democratic party have ideas and plans that can help make America and the world a better place. They include our plans for health care, the environment, the economy, and a more diplomatic foreign policy. However, in order to accomplish these things to help you, we need to come to an understanding about the place of religion in government. Look at the way Jesus interacted with the Roman government. He didn't. He never tried to lobby the Roman senate to reshape their laws to his vision. In the same way, Christians must understand that is not the place of government to foster Christianity...it is the place of Christians to foster Christianity. Now let's come together on the things on which we agree in order to accomplish our mutual goals."
An attitude like that can turn red states blue. However, this will not happen. The elites in the Democratic party are openly hostile to Christianity. Christians are not as dumb as you think...they can spot a liar. So unless Democrats can actually put their anti-Christian bigotry behind them, they will never attract Christians to their cause. It will take time, but it can be done. For instance, before the civil rights movement, the Democratic party was just as racist and intollerant of blacks as the Republican party, but they spent a decade throwing rascists out of their party and embracing minorities in urban centers and the south. The democratic party purged themselves of their anti-black bigotry, where the Republican party did not. Only in the last two decades or so have the Republicans attempted to do the same thing, and that's why Republicans are making strong inroads with minority voters, as well. Unless the Democratic party can acknowledge and eliminate their anti-Christian bigotry with the same zeal they did their anti-black bigotry in the 50's and 60's, the democrats will never be a national party again, but will stay relagated to urban centers only.
We don't have a state-run media we have a media-run state.
We need to do more than just reorganize; we need to restrategize.
And while you restrategize, you really do need to pay attention to what trb0001 is saying. You're not going to win the 2008 election by insulting the 51% of the people who voted for Bush. If you continue insulting Christians, rural inhabitants, and blue collar workers, you will lose the next election. If you want to win you need to be the party of egalitarian inclusion, not elitist exclusion.
Don't blame me, I didn't vote for either of them!
Is it more important for you to be a Republican than an American? Who exactly is your "enemy"?
Yeah? Well I think you're overrated too.
The elites in the Democratic party are openly hostile to Christianity.
You're getting way off track.
I'm a proud independent agnostic liberal. I do not hate Christians, Jews, Muslims, Hindus, etc. I don't even distinguish between them. I see people, not religions.
What gets my goat is when the fundamentalists in the said religions use their religion as a justification for their political beliefs. When you invoke God(s), you are effectively saying that if you are not for my policies, you are against God(s).
See, its okay if I strap a bomb on to myself and kill civilians; GOD WANTS ME TO DO IT. Its okay if I deny good people rights based on their sexual orientation; GOD WANTS ME TO DO IT. Its okay if I kill doctors who perform abortions; GOD WANTS ME TO DO IT.
When you invoke the supposed creator of the universe, its hard to argue against that viewpoint. Religion can make people do insane things, which is why it isn't a good idea to base one's politics on it.
If there is a God(s), I highly doubt he (they) wants to be basis of American politics.
Flaws in computerized voting could explain why the exit polls were so inconsistent with the election results. Other explanations have been presented, most notably in this recent article from Greg Palast:
http://www.commondreams.org/views04/1104-36.htm
Is that merely wishful thinking? I'm not convinced. I am convinced that it's a shame that so many votes in poor neighborhoods are routinely thrown out. Is anybody expecting this to be fixed by '08? Frankly, I'll consider it a minor miracle if we last that long.
It was so much fear as disgust. They're both reprehensible, and Kerry was somewhat more so.
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."