Slashdot Mirror
The State of Natural Language Programming
gManZboy writes "Brad Meyers (and co) of the Human Computer Interaction Institute at Carnegie Mellon have written an interesting paper about the state of natural language programming. They point out that well understood HCI principles aren't finding their way into relatively new languages like Java and C#."
If
Natural Language is not making its way into Programming
Then
Programming should make its way into Natural Language
Else
Continue
Well, duh! That's because if, according to the article...
> The goal is to make it possible for people to express their ideas in the same way they think about them.
#include // Do What I Mean
thingy main (thingy list) { Sort thingy // wave hands
No, like this
With the guy's name on the right
No, I guess the middle initial deserves its own column. No, I didn't think of that.
But don't print the middle initial.
No, not like that.
Eew, that font sucks.
Yeah, like that.
No, like it was before.
Yeah, no--wait. I gotta talk to my boss.
He said to do it like this.
But he didnt like it.
Fuck this, I'll pay some guy in India to do it.
}
Given the state of natural language on /. this isn't going to work :-)
John.
I disagree with the article's assumption that interesting programming errors are due to people being unable to express themselves "naturally" in code. Rather, I find that almost all errors worthy of debugging come not understanding the problem domain correctly.
jeff
An interesting read.
Write a Natural Language Compiler and you'll find that programmers can't write in a Natural Language. Can you imagine what would happen when you have to understand, not the flow of the code, not the overall process of the application(s), but HOW the writer was THINKING when they wrote the code? I've worked on a couple interesting projects where the programmers originally were involved in the physical business process, and eventually ended up coding (don't ask). When I had to edit their code, there was NO way of understanding it unless you actually talked to them and realized how they were thinking about the problem. It's not that the code was so poor, but they wrote code based on how they'd seen the business operate, and that just didn't translate nicely into straightforward code.
:)
Personally, I don't see how creating a language that encourages this behaviour can be a good thing. Isn't this the point of learned programmers? The ability to translate real world situations into easy to understand processes? Then again, I'm no language development guru.
YOU FORTH LOVE IF HONK THEN
And here's some filler text to compensate for /.'s sucktacular lameness filter. Blah blah blah. "It won't be any more frightening than the time I climbed up an elevator shaft with my teeth," said Sunny.
You cannot apply a technological solution to a sociological problem. (Edwards' Law)
The difficult thing with programming isn't usually the syntax but the fact that most people can't cope with the computer doing exactly what they tell it to do.
Linux is not Windows
Programming is also something that is easier to express in a specialised language. Sure we can make some things more human readable but does that make it easier to understand? The hard part of programming isn't reading/writing the code so much as knowing what structures and concepts to use. Making programming more natural language like will not really make programming easier, you still need skill and practice. Using the music analogy again: I don't play music and can't read music score (the language of music). If Beethoven's fifth (if he ever had a fifth) was rewritten in a natural language it would not make it easier for me to play; I'd still need a whole lot of practice with a piano or whatever to play effectively. Relative to aquiring the piano skills, I expect learning to read sheet music would be relatively simple.
Where natural languaages might help is in system design and requirement capture. Still, however, I think that most often things go wrong because when people are expressing their thoughts in a natural language they use very woolly thinking and use vague terms.
Engineering is the art of compromise.
Did you two (the parent & grandparent of this) really read the article? It's not about programming in English, it's not about syntax, it's about structure.
For example, they pointed out that people think about tasks in an event-driven way, their example is "when pac-man is out of lives, the game is over". But they must program by finding where in the program the number of lives goes down, and inserting the code there. An event driven language would simplify.
Their other example was that most languages make people think in loops, when they really want to operate on a group. Saying "for (i = 0; i len; ++i) { x[i] += 10; }" it a really clumsy way to express what people thought, which was "add 10 to everything in x".
Anyway, I agree that parts of the article don't sound too helpful, but they aren't talking about writing in English; they're talking about changing the structure of languages to more closely match what people think.