Slashdot Mirror
Supermarket Loyalty Cards Vs National ID Cards
john.wingfield writes "The BBC is running a story on a speech David Blunkett, the British Home Secretary, has given on ID cards and supermarket loyalty cards. He criticises the data protection arrangements for the loyalty cards whilst simultaneously (hypocritically?) promoting his own national ID card scheme, which is exempt from the Data Protection Act 1998. See also the UK Information Commissioner's (data protection and freedom of information watchdog) concerns about the ID card scheme."
I'll bet slashdot is about the only place where us Supermarket Refuseniks are in the majority. I won't use one (even one with fake info) and I won't buy a single item that requires the card to get the real price.
When the cashier asks if I have a $NAME_OF_STORE Card, I answer with a strong, cheerful "Nope!" and it's been years since anybody pressed the issue any further. I assume based on their reactions that they get a fair number of customers declining (and probably with varying levels of politeness), yet I don't ever notice another customer not handing over their keychain for verification of eligibility to pay only full retail.
It's an odd thing... all these millions (are they into the billions yet?) of dollars spent to administer these programs, and I've yet to hear a single believable* justification for it.
* 'because we want to save you money!' is NOT believable. If that was their goal, they'd lower the prices and be done with it.
Quantum materiae materietur marmota monax si marmota monax materiam possit materiari?
I've been known from time to time to swap grocery store cards with friends, or else to give phony name and address information when obtaining one. The result is that I get discounts without totally giving up privacy, and the supermarket gets reliable data about a real person's short term shopping habits. The one thing the store loses is the ability to correctly map the shopping habits to a particular person. (You must pay with cash, of course, to make that work.)
I very much doubt that any country that institutes a national ID card system would let citizens swap cards.
Get to checkout, fumble briefly in your pockets, claim you have left your supermarket card at home by accident. Oh, that's fine, they'll say, and usually they'll just punch in a number and give you a discount anyway. Worst case scenario you still get to buy your groceries, you just have to pay a half a pound more. The horror.
Claim you lost your national ID card. Oh, sorry, you can't get on the plane.
Go and sign up for a supermarket card, or two or three, with false identity information. Claim you don't have a driver's license, or offer some flimsy piece of cardboard you printed up at home. There will be no negative repercussions for you in any way, at absolute worst one of these cards will get negated.
Go and sign up for a national ID card, or two or three, with false identity information. You have just committed a crime with a multi-year jail penalty.
Can you see why I might be more comfortable with the supermarket card than the government ID card?
As opposed to national ID cards, loyalty card are optional. Sure you could say national ID cards are optional (you can move out of the country) but it is different. There is a much higher transaction cost in changing countries compared to changing supermarkets.
"brxref
Maybe coming from a country where ID cards (and having them with you) have been mandatory since I've been born has made me blid, but what exactly are people's concerns about them? As far as I remember, my privacy has never been threatened by them - I show it to the police to prove who I am, sometimes also to the post office when I collect a parcel. So they believe I'm actually the person who is registered as the owner of the car I'm driving or the recipient of the parcel I'm trying to collect - thank you, I'd expect them to check that. Having lived in the UK for a few years, I couldn't help but get the impression that the point in this discussion is that "I have the right to hide who I am from anyone" - I just don't see that as a legitimate concern. The government and its agencies are not a privately owned supermarket who doesn't need to know who I am to accept me as a customer...
That's why this card is used *only* with cash.
I have a big family, and food is a major monthly bill. If I can save 100-200 dollars a month by using a store card, guess what, I will.
I'm one of those "Evil" customers, I value shop. I buy on sale, buy the 2 for 1 sales, and never by name brands, unless its in bulk. Costco gives you money back on the excutive account, more than the cost of the account, so its worth it to shop there for bulk items.
I was in a little discussion about shopping with a co-worker, after a few minutes here is what we he said about shopping and my answers.
* Shopping all over takes time.
I shop at 3 stores, Costco for most stuff, Safeway and the local corner market. The corner market always sell milk for 1.99 the local markets dont. Costco has 2 for 3.50, but longer lines, so during the week, the basics are the local stores and the quicky market.
I found our markets in best prices in prices as Costco, Safeway, Albertsons, QFC and Fred Myers tie. This is my local area, in other areas I noticed Albertsons and Fredmyers are cheaper. So it depends on where you live. The area is has lots of Safeway generic product producers, (Dairygold, etc), so icecream is cheaper.
Safeway comes out ahead with sales alone, but if you use the membershipcard you 10-20% if you shop right. 2 for 1 prices, and discount's are amazing.
* Brand names over generics
This is tricky, on sale items most are brand names. But normally, stuff like bagged cereal are much cheaper, and with a club card even less. 2 for 3.50, 16 ounce bags is better than a 24 ounce box for 4 bux. And if they have the 32 ounce bags for 3.99 thats even better.
Store brands are also very high quality, you buy store meat/milk/wheat/product products, why not store boxed goods?
I dont see the reason for people to give up 10-20% savings because they wont use a club card, and then complain about privacy then still rent videos at blockbuster, have multiple accounts with other merchants.
Would you give up 20% of your pay to feel secure, but not be secure? National ID's are like this, its just a false sense of security. The 9-11 terrorists had real ID's. They didnt fake a thing.
People ask me why I refuse to get one of these grocery store cards. I always first try to explain the privacy implications. That usually falls on deaf ears. However, I find that those ears open up when I tell them, "They aren't handing out those 'discount' cards because they LOSE money off of them." Thoughtful expressions ensue.
"Don't blame the log for the fire." --Andrew Ratshin
Your library gets ripped off $80 (which is about right) because you left their books out in the car, yet somehow it's an infringement of your rights to be required to pay for what you deprived them of before you'll be allowed to borrow more of their stuff? Libraries are underfunded as it is; why should they be forced to eat the cost of *you* choosing to leave their books in the car?
So your Kroger card doesn't have your name associated with it. Big deal! You're still the one swiping it every time you buy groceries, so they can still track your buying patterns. For Kroger, the net effect is the same as if you had a "non-blank" card.
Why is it that everybody thinks the most evil thing about loyalty cards is that they can match your buying habits with your name? You think they really CARE what your name is?
Breakfast served all day!
If you do some investigating you find that in many cases, the card isn't saving you money, it's just keeping you from getting ripped off. What's the difference you ask?
Ok well if a store has too much of something in inventory and needs to get rid of it, or if they want to offer a loss leader (an item they sell at a loss to entice you to come in and buy stuff), but only to card members, that's you saving money. They are offering a discount over what the normal price is for an item.
However if they take an item that they get plenty of sales on, jack the price and then offer the old price as the card member price, then you are just not getting ripped off. They don't need to charge the higher price normally, they just jack it up to make you feel like you are getting a discount.
Many items fall in this cateogry. Where I often shop, meat is ALWAYS on sale with the discount card. Always. Well look, I know how it goes with meat sales. They do a lot of it, it's fairly predictable, and they prep it fresh in the deli every day. They are not alwys overstocked on meat, and the price is not low enough to be a loss leader.
That's the problem people have with these. When Albertsons switched to a card, I didn't notice things get cheaper on a whole. Seems like the regular prices just slid up over time and the "discount" prices.
This is why people hate them. If they really did nothing but offer lower than normal prices, I'd say good for them. However it's usually just a scam to make you feel like you are saving money.
Store cards are subject to the Data Protection Act; Blunkettcards will run a coach and horses through the protection - so much so they'll probably have to amend the DPA (and not in our favour).
Apart from being card-shaped and having my name on them there is nothing in common between the two. Blinky is now trying the soft-sell; after scaring us silly with the threat that unless we have ID cards we'll all be blown up by terrorists; he's now trying the line that they aren't so very different from the cards we have in our wallet. When they are.
And expect copious repetitions of 'those who have nothing to hide have nothing to fear.', which as any five-year old can tell you is disproved by 'doesn't that rather depend on who's asking the questions?'
This is all going to be rammed through Parliament in time for a May General Election (which is only needed so they can get it out of the way before announcing tax increases). The government will call for all parties to come together to fight the menace of [insert suitable scare here].
Any party who objects to ID cards, or tries to drag it out in committee will be called 'soft on crime'. Which is the last thing they want before an election now that the tabloids and the Home Secretary have made everyone petrified of a largely imaginary crime wave.
Meanwhile the government will be whipping its own backbenchers and telling them 'don't rock the boat - remember there's a historic third term up for grabs'. They'll get it through the Commons on a massive majority and then bully the Lords into compliance.
If the Lords object, well last night showed that the government will use the Parliament Act 1949 for pretty much any purpose.
The only way to stop this madness (apart from hoping the same people who programmed the Child Support Agency computers are doing ID cards) is for people in Labour constituencies to contact their MP and say that their vote is conditional on the MP opposing the ID card legislation.
Best wishes,
Mike.