Slashdot Mirror
Supermarket Loyalty Cards Vs National ID Cards
john.wingfield writes "The BBC is running a story on a speech David Blunkett, the British Home Secretary, has given on ID cards and supermarket loyalty cards. He criticises the data protection arrangements for the loyalty cards whilst simultaneously (hypocritically?) promoting his own national ID card scheme, which is exempt from the Data Protection Act 1998. See also the UK Information Commissioner's (data protection and freedom of information watchdog) concerns about the ID card scheme."
The cards were not a panacea for everything but could help stop terrorists using multiple identities Because everyone KNOWS that terrorists can't fake ID cards! Hell, that's probably why GB is the terrorist haven that it is now, because they don't have a national ID card!
Geez, I thought that only America had to deal with this kind of insane rationalization. And no, I don't have and never will have a "loyalty" (i.e. "We want to track you") card.
There once was a man called Blunkett.
Loyalty Programs? He tried to debunk it.
But his views on privacy
Were pure hypocrisy,
So Britons everywhere said "Man, you flunk it!"
--------
Bleah! Heh heh heh... BLEAH BLEAH!!! Ha ha ha ha...
I avoid those grocery store cards. I will go out of my way to find the stores that don't use them. Luckily the little mom&pop store down the street doesn't use them, so that's where I usually go.
Guess what? While their small size means their selection is limited, the overall prices are about the same as the larger stores that use the nasty little cards.
Even if the prices were higher, I'd still go there. Everyone in the store knows the location of every item. Can't find something? Ask the next kid in an apron, and they'll take you right to it.
sigs, as if you care.
I'll bet slashdot is about the only place where us Supermarket Refuseniks are in the majority. I won't use one (even one with fake info) and I won't buy a single item that requires the card to get the real price.
When the cashier asks if I have a $NAME_OF_STORE Card, I answer with a strong, cheerful "Nope!" and it's been years since anybody pressed the issue any further. I assume based on their reactions that they get a fair number of customers declining (and probably with varying levels of politeness), yet I don't ever notice another customer not handing over their keychain for verification of eligibility to pay only full retail.
It's an odd thing... all these millions (are they into the billions yet?) of dollars spent to administer these programs, and I've yet to hear a single believable* justification for it.
* 'because we want to save you money!' is NOT believable. If that was their goal, they'd lower the prices and be done with it.
Quantum materiae materietur marmota monax si marmota monax materiam possit materiari?
as for the supermarket loyalty cards, they give the card, no one says you have to give them your address, they call me Mr Goatse at one store, one clerk figured it out and started laughing at my name. You can easily grab a handful of them, use one for every day of the week.
"Do you have a Kiroger card?"
'Nope'
"well...here's the card and the application" She swiped it, and gave me the blank app, to be filled out later.
The card works, and I just shredded the application.
So..just take the blank application, and say "I'll fill it out later".
Get to checkout, fumble briefly in your pockets, claim you have left your supermarket card at home by accident. Oh, that's fine, they'll say, and usually they'll just punch in a number and give you a discount anyway. Worst case scenario you still get to buy your groceries, you just have to pay a half a pound more. The horror.
Claim you lost your national ID card. Oh, sorry, you can't get on the plane.
Go and sign up for a supermarket card, or two or three, with false identity information. Claim you don't have a driver's license, or offer some flimsy piece of cardboard you printed up at home. There will be no negative repercussions for you in any way, at absolute worst one of these cards will get negated.
Go and sign up for a national ID card, or two or three, with false identity information. You have just committed a crime with a multi-year jail penalty.
Can you see why I might be more comfortable with the supermarket card than the government ID card?
As opposed to national ID cards, loyalty card are optional. Sure you could say national ID cards are optional (you can move out of the country) but it is different. There is a much higher transaction cost in changing countries compared to changing supermarkets.
"brxref
The rhythm is off, but the rhyme is true, so the reader is left hanging. M yattempt to fix:
The once was a man named Blunkett
Privacy? Tried to debunk it.
But his guv'ment's card
Hit privacy hard
Hypocrisy test? He flunked it!
That was godwaful. See why I'm going to major in math?
Maybe coming from a country where ID cards (and having them with you) have been mandatory since I've been born has made me blid, but what exactly are people's concerns about them? As far as I remember, my privacy has never been threatened by them - I show it to the police to prove who I am, sometimes also to the post office when I collect a parcel. So they believe I'm actually the person who is registered as the owner of the car I'm driving or the recipient of the parcel I'm trying to collect - thank you, I'd expect them to check that. Having lived in the UK for a few years, I couldn't help but get the impression that the point in this discussion is that "I have the right to hide who I am from anyone" - I just don't see that as a legitimate concern. The government and its agencies are not a privately owned supermarket who doesn't need to know who I am to accept me as a customer...
I reluctantly applied for one a few years ago, since the discounts meant I'd save over $100/year. In reality, I was off by a factor of two, saving close to $200/yr. off of the store's artificially inflated prices.
There are actually two types of discount cards: the first requires a real name and address and proof of identity. This one affords the user check cashing privileges. Since I do my banking business at an actual bank, I opted for the second, which doesn't require a real identity. Being a properly paranoid Slashbot who doesn't want The Powers That Be to track my aluminum foil purchasing habits (for the hats, you see), I gave my name as John Doe, 1234 Main St., Anytown, USA.
I'd been using the card for over five years before I realized that the cashier sees your name come up on her terminal when you use the card. About a month ago, the cashier asked me if my name was really "John Doe".
"Yeah, and it's a real bitch when I check into a hotel," I replied.
About a year after I got the card, the supermarket (Stop and Shop in Massachusetts) launched a web site that integrated your purchasing data. You'd log in by entering the serial number on the card and get a history of your purchases and discounts, along with "healthy" alternatives (which was pretty brain dead, offering mayonnaise as a "healthy" alternative to mustard).
The beauty part was that after you logged in you were presented with the option of password protecting your data. However, that meant that anyone who hadn't logged in had their purchase data unprotected (albeit with no identity attached). I tested this by entering numbers at random and viewing the purchase histories of random strangers ("Grape soda and rice cakes? What were you thinking?" "Oooh! KY Warming Jelly! Party on, dude!"). I was tempted to enter passwords for some of these but I didn't.
The store pulled the web site after a couple of weeks, citing "security concerns".
Gotta go. I have a craving for grape soda and rice cakes.
k.
"In spite of everything, I still believe that people are really good at heart." - Anne Frank
I have a big family, and food is a major monthly bill. If I can save 100-200 dollars a month by using a store card, guess what, I will.
I'm one of those "Evil" customers, I value shop. I buy on sale, buy the 2 for 1 sales, and never by name brands, unless its in bulk. Costco gives you money back on the excutive account, more than the cost of the account, so its worth it to shop there for bulk items.
I was in a little discussion about shopping with a co-worker, after a few minutes here is what we he said about shopping and my answers.
* Shopping all over takes time.
I shop at 3 stores, Costco for most stuff, Safeway and the local corner market. The corner market always sell milk for 1.99 the local markets dont. Costco has 2 for 3.50, but longer lines, so during the week, the basics are the local stores and the quicky market.
I found our markets in best prices in prices as Costco, Safeway, Albertsons, QFC and Fred Myers tie. This is my local area, in other areas I noticed Albertsons and Fredmyers are cheaper. So it depends on where you live. The area is has lots of Safeway generic product producers, (Dairygold, etc), so icecream is cheaper.
Safeway comes out ahead with sales alone, but if you use the membershipcard you 10-20% if you shop right. 2 for 1 prices, and discount's are amazing.
* Brand names over generics
This is tricky, on sale items most are brand names. But normally, stuff like bagged cereal are much cheaper, and with a club card even less. 2 for 3.50, 16 ounce bags is better than a 24 ounce box for 4 bux. And if they have the 32 ounce bags for 3.99 thats even better.
Store brands are also very high quality, you buy store meat/milk/wheat/product products, why not store boxed goods?
I dont see the reason for people to give up 10-20% savings because they wont use a club card, and then complain about privacy then still rent videos at blockbuster, have multiple accounts with other merchants.
Would you give up 20% of your pay to feel secure, but not be secure? National ID's are like this, its just a false sense of security. The 9-11 terrorists had real ID's. They didnt fake a thing.
People ask me why I refuse to get one of these grocery store cards. I always first try to explain the privacy implications. That usually falls on deaf ears. However, I find that those ears open up when I tell them, "They aren't handing out those 'discount' cards because they LOSE money off of them." Thoughtful expressions ensue.
"Don't blame the log for the fire." --Andrew Ratshin
So your Kroger card doesn't have your name associated with it. Big deal! You're still the one swiping it every time you buy groceries, so they can still track your buying patterns. For Kroger, the net effect is the same as if you had a "non-blank" card.
Why is it that everybody thinks the most evil thing about loyalty cards is that they can match your buying habits with your name? You think they really CARE what your name is?
Breakfast served all day!
If you do some investigating you find that in many cases, the card isn't saving you money, it's just keeping you from getting ripped off. What's the difference you ask?
Ok well if a store has too much of something in inventory and needs to get rid of it, or if they want to offer a loss leader (an item they sell at a loss to entice you to come in and buy stuff), but only to card members, that's you saving money. They are offering a discount over what the normal price is for an item.
However if they take an item that they get plenty of sales on, jack the price and then offer the old price as the card member price, then you are just not getting ripped off. They don't need to charge the higher price normally, they just jack it up to make you feel like you are getting a discount.
Many items fall in this cateogry. Where I often shop, meat is ALWAYS on sale with the discount card. Always. Well look, I know how it goes with meat sales. They do a lot of it, it's fairly predictable, and they prep it fresh in the deli every day. They are not alwys overstocked on meat, and the price is not low enough to be a loss leader.
That's the problem people have with these. When Albertsons switched to a card, I didn't notice things get cheaper on a whole. Seems like the regular prices just slid up over time and the "discount" prices.
This is why people hate them. If they really did nothing but offer lower than normal prices, I'd say good for them. However it's usually just a scam to make you feel like you are saving money.
He criticises the data protection arrangements for the loyalty cards whilst simultaneously (hypocritically?) promoting his own national ID card scheme, which is exempt from the Data Protection Act 1998.
I mean, you'd have to be blind not to see that wouldn't you?
What are you listening to? (http://megamanic.blogetery.com/)
"it is important that we do not pretend that an entitlement card would be an overwhelming factor in combating international terrorism" - David Blunkett 3 July 2002.
-- MartinG To mail me: echo kewyjlcxyzvjfxbqwh | tr bcefhjklqvwxyz