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15-Year-Old Girl Survives Rabies Infection
An anonymous reader writes "A 15 y.o. girl in Wisconsin is the first known survivor of a rabies infection who did not receive the vaccine. She was placed into an induced coma while doctors gave her a cocktail of drugs to help her immune system fight the infection. (For those of us who don't realize this, rabies is considered 100% fatal once symptoms appear)."
I'm amazed that she's still alive. It will be interesting to see how she recovers.
A fine is a tax you pay for doing wrong and a tax is a fine you pay for doing all right.
No, the article gives the family's explanation for why she got better. And, y'know what? If she was my daughter and she came down with rabies, I'd kneel so fast my knees would break Mach One--and I don't even believe in an interventionist God.
Are you really so completely lacking in compassion, empathy, the ability to understand someone else's problems? Their daughter contracted an essentially 100% fatal illness. If they want to credit their belief in pink unicorns for her daughter's recovery, more power to 'em. Guess what? They're terrified. They're under intense stress. They're not thinking rationally. They found something that gave them hope, and you're mocking it.
Is it desperate? Yes. Superstitious? Yes.
Is it hope? Yes.
If you want to sneer at hope, then to hell with you.
Get bit by a wild animal? Get a rabies shot. Doing anything else is totally stupid.
Dude, I think I can see my house from here.
What bothers me is how people always credit prayer while ignoreing the advanced medical care the girl recieved. Maybe, just maybe, that had something to do with it? The logical extreme of this beleif is faith-healers who refuse medical attention. I've read a story about a young boy with a tumor on his head so large he couldn't actually lift it anymore and his idiot parents jast kinda watched and prayed. Ugh.
Smoking is an expensive, slow, and unreliable method of suicide.
The article implies her parents knew she was bitten. Her parents should have known it was dangerous. That's what kills me. How can you *not* know you need a rabies shot if you're bitten by a bat! All I ever heard about growing up in the Great Lakes region was "rabid bat this" and "rabid bat that."
Dude, I think I can see my house from here.
Any explanation of why they didn't have the vaccine on hand?
It wasn't a case of there not being a vaccine on hand, it's that you need to receive a series of vaccine shots over a period of weeks before symptoms appear, which usually happens weeks later (up to a year in some cases). This girl and/or her family, didn't seek treatment for whatever reason, early enough. Once symptoms appear, all the doctors can do is make you as comfortable as possible. It is considered to be fatal 100% of the time once the symptoms appear.
These doctors tried a whole new approach. Protect the brain as much as possible while letting the body develop its own antibodies. While the girl's body appears to have defeated the virus (our body's self-defenses are amazing!), it's still to be determined how successful the doctors were in preventing brain damage.
Sig cancelled due to lack of interest
What bothers me when people credit prayer is that for every "success" there are probably many "failures". "God answered my prayers and saved my child." is an implicit claim that God didn't answer someone else's prayers. Thus someone who dies must either themselves be un-favored by God or the person doing the praying must be somehow lacking. From God's point of view ("Point Of View"?) it may make sense, but it seems less than comforting for those who've suffered a loss.
What the parent post objects to, and I fully share his consternation, is the statement:
"Jensen said the Giese family credits the power of prayer for providing strength in Jeanna's fight with the rabies virus, and they asked for continuing prayers for her full recovery."
Did they credit the highly skilled medical DOCTORS that administered her treatment? Did they credit the countless SCIENTISTS who have spent years developing highly selective and complex molecules which inhibit viral reproduction and allowed thier daughter to live? Did they credit the NURSES who cared for thier daughter in the hospital? No, and none of these were even mentioned. So do I sneer at hope? No, I do however sneer at the shameful insult of crediting to supernatural powers that which should be credited to the people who actually did save someone's life.
- "Hear that?! The percolations are imminent! Cease your ingress!"
Not to drag this even deeper into a theological debate, but I find it odd that when prayers are unanswered the common reply is that "it was god's will" whereas when a prayer is answered the prayer itself is credited. Was your omniscient buddy asleep at the wheel and didn't notice until you gave him a heads-up? Is your diety responsive to bribes and begging?
Assuming a given of an interventionist, omnipotent, omniscient force (... in a vacuum of course) prayer itself should have absolutely no effect. Either it'll happen or it won't. Prayer is just a method of hoping that it happens and utterly ineffective.
Jensen said the Giese family credits the power of prayer for providing strength in Jeanna's fight with the rabies virus, and they asked for continuing prayers for her full recovery.
The girl got bitten in church! Do they also "credit the power of prayer" that she got infected with rabies and nearly died?
So while we're at it -- how does that play in to the induced coma as part of the treatment? IANAMD, but I'm speculating that less neural activity (either in the brain or up/down the spinal cord for movement) means fewer neural firings, and consequently slower neural transport, and therefore more time for the vaccine to work?
When people pray, they are telling god, "this person's sickness also affects me", this forces a reevaluation if the punishment fits whatever crime.
Umm.. isn't God supposed to be omniscient and perfect? Wouldn't that preclude him having to "reevaluate" anything he does?
It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds. - Captain Hammer
If you want to sneer at hope, then to hell with you.
I sneer at ignorance. It isn't that they prayed. It is that they credit the success to prayer above the actions of the doctors. It is that they don't accept responsibility for not treating their knowingly-bitten daughter in a timely manner. I'd think that the anti-viral drugs administered had something to do with the recovery, but the parents obviously think that prayer did more than modern medicine. If they thought so little about modern medicine, why even bother bringing in their child?
Learn to love Alaska
I find the "Yahweh is complex" argument to be a cop out. You start with the premise that you want to believe in yahweh, then come up with beliefs about your god to justify it (without modifying any of your original premise). Prayer doesn't seem to effect much, so people come up with "god isn't understandable" argument. I guess.. but you ignore other equally plausible explanations. Maybe this yahweh person doesn't exist, or he's an evil god who just likes seeing people ask for things they won't get. Maybe yahweh does exist, but there's some secret code you need to put at the beginning for your prayer to get through. Ah, but that would be science. Religion doesn't like to modify its beliefs based on evidence.
Prayer may or may not be effective. There's no way to empiracally prove it one way or the other. Spending all of this time arguing about it, whether because you want to support your own belief in no God, or because you're scared of it, or for whatever other reason is pointless.
Pointless? How is a determining if your methods of curing disease actually help or not pointless? If it were we would have a great tool against curing disease. If all you're doing is helping people get through a tough time, hey that's great.. but wouldn't you rather know that?
It all seems far to convienent. Faith seems to boil down to "I want to believe, and will justify it by whatever means necessary". That's fine I guess, but stop trying to argue it's truth.
AccountKiller
I hate to say it but the sureness of reason is also often abused. I have meet many people that follow this like of logic. I am do not believe in supernatural things. I believe only in logic. I am logical so everything I believe must be logical. If you question what I believe you must be illogical.
The only problem is that almost everyone has some thing illogical that they believe in. From the harmless lucky socks to racism. Often a lack of faith in God becomes a mindless faith in self.
Yes Faith is what caused Dutch fishermen to risk their lives to save jews. Faith in a man caused them to be killed. Just be careful that you do not make yourself in to an unquestionable God.
I have faith that I will never have to hate for God, kill for God, or lie for God. I can understand people that do not believe in what I do and I have friends that do not share my faith. That is the way I feel the world should work.
See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
The treatment was a classic hack - everyone KNEW that rabies was 99.999999999999% fatal, and that the handful of survivors had brain damage. This doc didn't just tell the family "sorry, there's nothing we can do but make her comfortable and hope she pulls through, and get ready to cope with the brain damage when she does." He did some quick research, came up with a theory for how he might treat her, and tried it - and it worked. This is the hacker ethic *saving lives*. I can't think of any story that belongs on /. more than this one. If I ever meet this doc, the first drink's on me.
Actually, sadly, there is a problem with that.
The problem is that there is this tendency to claim that a life is totally priceless and that we must spend all the money we can to prolong it. This is all very noble, but there is a point where it becomes pointless.
Think about it this way. You spend 15% of your income on medical insurance. You will, on average, blow 60% of that money in the last 5 years of your life? Is it really, really a good idea to blow 15% of your LIFE INCOME to prolong your life statistically for 5 years? While your sick in any case?
I know this is a harsh and difficult way of looking at it, but when medical science reaches the point where the system is bankrupt becauseof extremely expensive treatments to prolong life for rare cases we really need, as a society, start to confront this basica question.
I know damn well there is no fixed answer here. My wife is a doctor. But still, we need to confront that question, and the "no, life is priceless" argument is a dodge. Spending a million bucks to keep someone on a machine for 6 months is money that could, quite frnankly, been spent somewhere else to feed children.
The dangers of excessive individualism are nothing compared to the oppressiveness of excessive collectivism
You can't reasonably argue with it one way or the other. You're just affronted by it, because it assumes that you are less than what God is, which is essentially true.
I think I just _did_ argue with it. You can believe what you want, but that doesn't mean it stands up to examination. It doesn't have anything to do with "being less than yahweh" (I resent the implication that this yahweh character is the only possible god). It has to do with religious beliefs not standing up to examination. Oh, but that would be blasphemy I suppose. How convenient.
And no. There is no secret code.
How do you know? Because it's not in your book? Oh but then you ignore the things you don't like that are in your book, not to mention all the chapters of your book that were taken out of the bible a couple thousand years ago. Maybe the secret code is only revealed to a select few who have proven themselves, so yahweh isn't innudated with all these requests from millions. Or maybe the church higher ups keep the secret code from the masses as a means of controlling them. Could be the secret code was lost thousands of years ago in when a sacred book was accidentally destroyed. You really don't know, and without any kind of testing (as done in science) it's just as plausible as any other religious belief.
God is also not evil, because being evil is defined in God's eyes as denying God.
Yahweh isn't evil because yahweh defines yahweh as not evil. Huh.. kind of a self definition.
AccountKiller