ESR Responds to Sun's Claims of Being a Better Bazaar

UnixSphere writes "Sun has been quoted to have said, 'Sun's Java is developed more in the mode of the bazaar than Linux is,' which has prompted OSI President Eric Raymond to correct Sun's view of what open source really is."

Comments

JCP is anything but open

[jeffphil]

I wanted to get the JSR 168 compatibilty toolkit for research. Note the text on the page for getting this toolkit:

The TCK will be available to Qualified
Not-for-Profits and Qualified Individuals for no
charge as per Section F.III of the JSPA 2.

So I sent an email off, and got a very quick response saying I had to complete this huge form and fax it back and then I may qualify.

Certainly a cathedral model.

Re:JCP is anything but open

[Kunta Kinte]

So I sent an email off, and got a very quick response saying I had to complete this huge form and fax it back and then I may qualify. Certainly a cathedral model.

Ok, let me get this straight...

Sun's model is cathedral like because you had to fill and fax a form?!

Free Forking?

[cervo]

Didn't Microsoft try to make their own Java implementation(J++) and didn't sun go after them for it because it didn't stick to the java standards? Is that open source?

If you don't like the linux kernel you can take the code, make your own kernel, and even break whatever standards you want....Linus isn't going to drag you to court for breaking the POSIX standard or something.

Can the same be said or Java? In fact parts of it are still under a propietary license as the article states...so people who live in glass houses.....

Re:Not sure about Bazaar, but it seems Bizarre

[Anonymous Coward]

The two are on the same side, right?

Here's how the concerned sides act to each other in a very simplified manner:

Open Source community about Microsoft: Shared Source isn't Open Source, but thanks for the instaler. Your closed source sucks because there are too few eyes.

Open Source community about Sun: It would be nice if you would decide where you really stand, but thanks for OpenOffice.org. Your closed source could be better with more eyes.

Sun about Microsoft: We would like to get some of the money you are getting from your monopoly-like marketshare, but you have shown that you can not be trusted.

Sun about Open Source: Your ideas are intriguing to me and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.

Microsoft about Open Source: We like the BSD, we don't like copyleft.

Microsoft about Sun: Buzz off or we will crush you.

This exactly matches democracy vs free markets

[Julian Morrison]

The essence of the bazaar is not voting--a concept I never mentioned in The Cathedral and the Bazaar and don't endorse--but the right to fork.

Democracy: you get a vote, there's a central point of control which, at the culmination of all the votes, ends up bossing people around, and nobody has a legal alternative. Result: if the democracy screws you over for populist causes, or the central point of control gets corrupted, tough luck. Result also: if you're in a numerical minority, your desires will be met coincidentally if at all.

Free markets: nobody has a right to vote how you may or may not act with your own stuff - but if they don't like it, they can get their own stuff and do as they please instead, or go to someone else they prefer. Result: egregious misbehaviour causes a "fork" where customers move away. Also result: not only is the majority happy, but also all profitable minority niches of the market are served.

Not surprising ESR thinks this way considering he's a libertarian and possibly an anarchist :-)