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Could Windfarms And Birds Get Along After All?
going_the_2Rpi_way writes "There's an ongoing argument as to whether wind farms actually are as environmentally friendly as is generally imagined. Opponents argue that the effect these farms have on local wildlife (birds, bats, etc.) may range from disruptive to devastating.
Well, it seems they've hit a nerve and ecologists are beginning addressing the issue and have begun to found some encouraging results:
Birds not being killed. The debate goes on ..."
It's not so much they the birds are being killed as that the turbines are freeing up bird prey for all the birds smart enough to not run into stuff. I don't think the turbines are going out of their way to kill birds.
I can see the headlines already:
Pigeons wiped out by wind turbines! Only less-dumb birds survive Avian Apocalypse!
If birds are stupid enough to fly into a giant turbine with saws of death then they don't deserve to live.
The crackpots who are trying to stop windpower because it might kill birds should concentrate on the things that actually are killing birds: cars, cats, buildings, and loss of habitat.
Doesn't that solve the bird problem?
On a side note though, doesn't having tons of large turbines change local weather patterns somehow by disrupting all the windflow?
Comment forecast: Bits of genius surrounded by a sea of mediocrity.
Let's convene a conference about birds being killed by paned glass.
Maybe the UN can get hold of the issue and negotiate a deal with glassmakers that would see them manage a fund dedicated to supporting the abandoned chicks of deceased winged parents cut-down by clear glass panes.
Then they could siphon a little off for themselves and their immediate relatives and remain beyond the reach of the law, even as they grandstand as the judges of right and wrong in the world.
Birds are also being killed by the avian flu. Those concerned should be developing and distributing an innoculation for birds everywhere, but they're not, are they?
Perhaps those claiming to be avian rights supporters should be placed on trial by the UN after the UN has first secured the aforementioned sweet deal over the glass panes, at which point it might accuse the world's chief bird rights organization of fraud, misrepresentation, malfeasance and the mismanagement of the public trust.
This organization might become the subject of various resolutions, after which it might be accused of developing weapons of mass destruction, preparing the way for sanctions, an economic embargo and eventual invasion.
If you're going to go around claiming to care for birds, you'd g*ddam*ed well better be caring for birds, and not just pretending to while you pursue your hidden, nefarious anti-windmill agenda.
...(and perhaps by the story, too):
bird hazard or not, there are legitimate unresolved questions about how *massive* wind-farms might adversely affect weather.
So the less dumb birds that survive will be tempted to do dumb things like flying around a blade while the blade is moving just to impress some of the females.
The message on the other side of this sig is false.
*sounds of brain gears slowly grinding*
Then, we'll eventually be left with a race of super birds? Hitchcock time for us?
"... and I, for one, welcome our new avian overlords..."
"You're wrong, look it up, whatever it is that will prove that you're wrong. Don't bother waiting for _me_ to prove myself though."
Kids these days, downhill both ways...
Although the angular speed of large windmills is low, the tip speeds are just as fast. In fact, high-efficiency windmills have very high tip speeds. The tip often travels on the order of 6 or 7 times the speed of the wind (about 150-180 mph in a 30 mph wind). If you think of a gliding airplane, the most efficient of them move more than 20 units forward for every 1 unit of distance dropped. Similarly, the blades of an efficient turbine move many units around the circle for each unit of wind that moves through them.
This tip speed ratio is irrespective of the diameter of the turbine.
Two wrongs don't make a right, but three lefts do.
Here in Australia one of the biggest killers of birds is the heat and drought (8 years and counting) and cats (of course). I have seen birds just fall out of the sky dead on 40c plus days. With global warming we can expect to see that even more... therefore wind farms might save the lives of the birds in an indirect way.
It concerns me that the people who complain about wind farms might be funded by the producers of fossil fuel power. There are anti-windfarm people here in Oz and a lot of their propoganda is funded by a company that owns a coal-fired power plant. Bah.
99 bottles of beer in 175 characte
FYI: Your physics is correct, but your grammar is not. If x is faster, then its speed is higher (not faster). Likewise, if it's slower then its speed is lower.
A modern high-performance sailplane can glide upwards of 60 feet forward for every foot it sinks (Lift/Drag >= 60), and the tip-speed ratio of a turbine isn't closely related to L/D. Heck, if you tried getting close to that ratio the tips would be supersonic at anything like good wind speeds.
Time is Nature's way of keeping everything from happening at once... the bitch.
The insanity is thinking that just because a particular concern is not the largest concern it should be dismissed.
Like I said, it's not an either/or world.
We don't ignore prostate cancer because automobile accidents kill more people. We don't ignore the danger of ozone in city air because smoking kills more people.
It's a complex world, and attempts to over simplify complex matters only serve to sweep valid issues under the rug.
Time is Nature's way of keeping everything from happening at once... the bitch.
How's Bryan Roberts coming along with the gyromill concept? I haven't seen anything new about this since the BBC news piece some time back.
Time is Nature's way of keeping everything from happening at once... the bitch.
Perhaps they could use the same strategies and techniques mentioned here
The Southwest Florida International Airport in Fort Myers has trained a 2-year-old border collie to chase birds away from the airport
Broadcasting bird distress calls to see if they can convince the birds to go elsewhere.
Bringing in trained hawks to intimidate smaller birds.
Stopping lawn mowing. If the grass around the airport is 7 to 14 inches high, it makes it harder for birds to peck for food
Set out a little bird food with purgatives to make the birds sick enough to move on to a better food supply
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Keep in mind that the Danish study covered wind farms that were out at sea. Are the results different for land-based wind farms?
I'm vehemently opposed to windfarms.
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My favorite spot in the extreme south of Spain, until recently spared of mass tourism, is being completely and utterly destroyed by thousands and thousands of windmills. Every formally pristine hilltop now has a 6 meter wide access road, and a row of eyesores.
As a major passage between Europe and Africa for migrant birds they present an enormous danger to them. Each time I walk up to a mill I find carcasses of a birds nearby. Rare birds getting killed IS a major issue.
Ecologists are caught in a trap. While they must see the birds getting killed (unless they're armchair ecologists), they like 'green energy' and are being bought off because the status of the land around the mills is converted from hunting area to nature reserve. Not that anything changes, the hunting areas were pristine, and not much hunting took place before.
The windmills are being heavily subsidised. Owners of the land - in Spain nobility still owns nearly all uncultivated land - reap them, plus untold amounts of money for converting their useless 'hunting' lands into nature preserves.
Once the subsidies subside, the mills will become unprofitable and will be abandoned.
If you have the chance, go and see for yourself, or google for 'tarifa windmills' or something like this.
http://images.google.com/images?q=tarifa%20windmi
Flourescent (adj): smelling like ground wheat.
If we cover the world in wind mills we'll destroy the climate by stoping the wind across the world!y Id=4161624
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?stor
Technology, the cause of and solution to all of life's problems.
that's not a half-bad idea! They don't really take up that much of the view from a distance, but they're white for crying out loud. Paint 'em!
Uh...yeah, you go paint 'em, I have to rush to the patent office for...uh...to apply for a...job. Yeah. Hurry up and start painting, will ya?
The difference between spam and poop is that you don't have to dig through septic tanks looking for real food. -- Me
That climate change argument is even more of a red herring than the dead birds smokescreen. A single tree has far greater wind resistance than even a much larger wind turbine, and you don't see protesters advocating killing more trees, do you? Try and picture for yourself how some wispy little wind generators dotting the prairie are going to influence global airflow, compared to forests/ grain elevators/ built-up city areas/ mountains, and you'll realize how utterly insignificant they are. Not that anyone has legislated how much winds should be allowed to move in the first place.
I am a bit surprised that NPR's usually somewhat circumspect reporting has taken that climate change rumor seriously enough to talk about it. But alas, we all know how reliable the public media tend to be on anything vaguely science related. It wouldn't the first nutty gaffe I have heard from them...
Unfortunately I can't get the NPR clip to play, so I don't know if the parent poster or NPR is being silly or sarcastic here. No specific personal flame intended: It's the whole damn crapload of pseudoscientific politicking that needs to be blown away.