Could Windfarms And Birds Get Along After All?

going_the_2Rpi_way writes "There's an ongoing argument as to whether wind farms actually are as environmentally friendly as is generally imagined. Opponents argue that the effect these farms have on local wildlife (birds, bats, etc.) may range from disruptive to devastating. Well, it seems they've hit a nerve and ecologists are beginning addressing the issue and have begun to found some encouraging results: Birds not being killed. The debate goes on ..."

Comments

Even if this is false

[Christopheles]

It's not so much they the birds are being killed as that the turbines are freeing up bird prey for all the birds smart enough to not run into stuff. I don't think the turbines are going out of their way to kill birds.

I can see the headlines already:

Pigeons wiped out by wind turbines! Only less-dumb birds survive Avian Apocalypse!

Re:Even if this is false

[Charcharodon]

Actually something similar happened in Texas with armadillos. The little tanks would jump when scared, as in when a car was bearing down on them, putting them perfectly at bumper height and out of the gene pool. Now the little guys just curl up in a ball and get bounced of the road from wind draft, but are much more likely to survive the incident unharmed. Of course if someone swerves to get them with a tire.....well so much for new tactics.

Whackos

[my_fake_account]

The crackpots who are trying to stop windpower because it might kill birds should concentrate on the things that actually are killing birds: cars, cats, buildings, and loss of habitat.

Re:Whackos

[Idarubicin]

The crackpots who are trying to stop windpower because it might kill birds should concentrate on the things that actually are killing birds: cars, cats, buildings, and loss of habitat.

As often as not, the people protesting the construction of wind farms aren't actually concerned about the wildlife. They are often local landowners who are concerned about the effect that wind farms may have on their view, on noise, or on their property value.

Re:Whackos

[Murphy Murph]

The crackpots who are trying to stop windpower because it might kill birds should concentrate on the things that actually are killing birds: cars, cats, buildings, and loss of habitat.

Are you suggesting that expressing concern and raising an awareness about another source of migratory bird death puts somebody in the "crackpot" category?

More Americans die every year as a result of automobile accidents than as a result of prostate cancer. Does this mean that anyone raising awareness about prostate cancer is a crackpot?

It's not an either/or world. IF wind powered generators are killing birds then that needs to be considered when evaluating wind farms' value to society. Just because wind farms are not the primary cause of bird deaths by humans does not mean that the issue should not be addressed.

IF windfarms are not a large threat to birds then great, it makes things easier, but that still does not discredit those who had previously expressed concerns.

Re:Whackos

[nathanh]

As often as not, the people protesting the construction of wind farms aren't actually concerned about the wildlife. They are often local landowners who are concerned about the effect that wind farms may have on their view, on noise, or on their property value.

Ha. You got that one right. There was a recent story on Australian 60 Minutes (I normally never watch it, honest) about locals getting up in arms over windfarms.

Near as I could tell, a sheep farmer permitted several turbines to be built on his land. The sheep didn't seem to mind. The farmer didn't mind. The only people who minded were:

• A couple who were bitter that the turbines spoiled their view, that their property value was negatively affected, and that the wsh-wsh from the blades was like "Chinese Water Torture".
• Professor Bellamy on his crusade against wind farms. He's convinced they don't work. Uhh, yes they do. They're even economical. Get the fuck out of our country you interfering pom.
• Another farmer who was too far away to hear the turbines but was pissed off that his view will be disturbed. "This is where I work, and I don't want to look at these things all day long". Cry me a river. I stare at a brick wall all day long while listening to screeching truck brakes; I'd love to have his view while working, even with the turbines.

None of the naysayers had realistic arguments. They were all selfish arguments. NIMBY taken to the n-th degree. Sure, I wouldn't like one in my backyard either, but I'd recognise that it's a lot better than continuing to pollute the planet with CO2.

Re:Whackos

[jim_v2000]

Another farmer who was too far away to hear the turbines but was pissed off that his view will be disturbed Maybe they can paint the base of the turbines like tree trunks, and the blades green like leaves. Then they'd blend in with rest of the trees...you know, the rest of the ones with spinning foliage.

Won't someone think of the birds?

[rqqrtnb]

Let's convene a conference about birds being killed by paned glass.

Maybe the UN can get hold of the issue and negotiate a deal with glassmakers that would see them manage a fund dedicated to supporting the abandoned chicks of deceased winged parents cut-down by clear glass panes.

Then they could siphon a little off for themselves and their immediate relatives and remain beyond the reach of the law, even as they grandstand as the judges of right and wrong in the world.

Birds are also being killed by the avian flu. Those concerned should be developing and distributing an innoculation for birds everywhere, but they're not, are they?

Perhaps those claiming to be avian rights supporters should be placed on trial by the UN after the UN has first secured the aforementioned sweet deal over the glass panes, at which point it might accuse the world's chief bird rights organization of fraud, misrepresentation, malfeasance and the mismanagement of the public trust.

This organization might become the subject of various resolutions, after which it might be accused of developing weapons of mass destruction, preparing the way for sanctions, an economic embargo and eventual invasion.

If you're going to go around claiming to care for birds, you'd g*ddam*ed well better be caring for birds, and not just pretending to while you pursue your hidden, nefarious anti-windmill agenda.

Re:Large Windmills

[gnuman99]

My understanding was that newer windmills used larger blades, which allowed them to extract the same amount of energy (or more) from the wind while turning slower. So instead of spinning very fast like propeller blades (which would kill any bird who might not be able to see it well), they spin at a speed making the individual blades easy to identify and easy for birds to avoid.

Angular speed is slower, but speed of the blades is probably faster.

Also, birds see at a much higher FPS than humans so they can probably see blades in the fast moving turbines just as well as the slow ones.

Re:Large Windmills

[MBCook]

True, but a slower moving blade (angular) would be easier to avoid than a faster moving one; I would think.

I would agree with the birds comment, but they seem to die anyway (at least reportadly), so it must not be ENOUGH for the fast spinning windmills.

Either that or it's just the birds that are dumb as paste, in which case we may be doing nature a favor ;)

Stunt birds

[Rares Marian]

So the less dumb birds that survive will be tempted to do dumb things like flying around a blade while the blade is moving just to impress some of the females.

The shape of things to come?

[Aropax20]

So... if only dumb birds get taken out by the turbines...

*sounds of brain gears slowly grinding*

Then, we'll eventually be left with a race of super birds? Hitchcock time for us?

"... and I, for one, welcome our new avian overlords..."

That's just silly

[Claire-plus-plus]

Here in Australia one of the biggest killers of birds is the heat and drought (8 years and counting) and cats (of course). I have seen birds just fall out of the sky dead on 40c plus days. With global warming we can expect to see that even more... therefore wind farms might save the lives of the birds in an indirect way.

It concerns me that the people who complain about wind farms might be funded by the producers of fossil fuel power. There are anti-windfarm people here in Oz and a lot of their propoganda is funded by a company that owns a coal-fired power plant. Bah.

Your info is out of date

[Tau Zero]

A modern high-performance sailplane can glide upwards of 60 feet forward for every foot it sinks (Lift/Drag >= 60), and the tip-speed ratio of a turbine isn't closely related to L/D. Heck, if you tried getting close to that ratio the tips would be supersonic at anything like good wind speeds.

Preventative measures

[cuteseal]

Airports face the same problems with birds and geese and such flying into jet turbines and causing disruptions to planes.

Perhaps they could use the same strategies and techniques mentioned here

The Southwest Florida International Airport in Fort Myers has trained a 2-year-old border collie to chase birds away from the airport

Broadcasting bird distress calls to see if they can convince the birds to go elsewhere.

Bringing in trained hawks to intimidate smaller birds.

Stopping lawn mowing. If the grass around the airport is 7 to 14 inches high, it makes it harder for birds to peck for food

Set out a little bird food with purgatives to make the birds sick enough to move on to a better food supply

Re:Large Windmills

[Alsee]

Also, birds see at a much higher FPS than humans

I had to drop a small fortune on a new high end video card, my parakeet refuses to play Quake 3 at anything less than 160 FPS.

-

The problem with wind farms is not the bird.

[ballpoint]

I'm vehemently opposed to windfarms.

My favorite spot in the extreme south of Spain, until recently spared of mass tourism, is being completely and utterly destroyed by thousands and thousands of windmills. Every formally pristine hilltop now has a 6 meter wide access road, and a row of eyesores.

As a major passage between Europe and Africa for migrant birds they present an enormous danger to them. Each time I walk up to a mill I find carcasses of a birds nearby. Rare birds getting killed IS a major issue.

Ecologists are caught in a trap. While they must see the birds getting killed (unless they're armchair ecologists), they like 'green energy' and are being bought off because the status of the land around the mills is converted from hunting area to nature reserve. Not that anything changes, the hunting areas were pristine, and not much hunting took place before.

The windmills are being heavily subsidised. Owners of the land - in Spain nobility still owns nearly all uncultivated land - reap them, plus untold amounts of money for converting their useless 'hunting' lands into nature preserves.

Once the subsidies subside, the mills will become unprofitable and will be abandoned.

If you have the chance, go and see for yourself, or google for 'tarifa windmills' or something like this.

http://images.google.com/images?q=tarifa%20windmil ls&hl=en&lr=&c2coff=1&sa=N&tab =wi