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Gentoo 2005.0: A Live CD And [No] Graphical Installer
Sunsetbeach writes "zdnet.co.uk reports in this article that 'The next version of Gentoo, 2005.0, will also include a graphical installer that will allow users to automatically install the same set-up of Gentoo on multiple machines, according to Gianelloni.' " The article distinguishes the upcoming live disk from the (available) Gentoo Live CD; the new one will contain a fully functioning system ala Knoppix. Update: 11/30 23:09 GMT by M : Gentoo now has a clarification posted; the next Gentoo release will not have a graphical installer, although it is planned for the future.
ummm, vida linux is gentoo with a graphical installer. i fail so see how the next 2005 release will be any different from vida.
http://gentoo.vidalinux.com/
What's planned for 2005.0 is an experimental test release of the new graphical installer. It'll be there for people who want to test it, but don't go relying on the thing.
I first switched to Gentoo because the bloody fonts "just worked". How sad is that. On a serious note, the user base is one major reason to stick with Gentoo. There is always excellent help and support in the forums, and snobby attitudes are kept in check.
In Soviet America the banks rob you!
You'll see pretty much any Linux distro use a "full gig" of RAM just running KDE if you let it sit long enough. It's how linux manages memory.
so I could still idle on IRC and such
You know, the 2004.3 livecds (or at least the x86 and amd64 ones) do include irssi for that...
No, it's called filesystem cache.
I will admit I still haven't RTFA, but has the Gentoo crew fixed what is my biggest beef with their distro, i.e. the regular smashing of un-identified configuration files?
I mean, I can accept that various configuration files get overwritten when you upgrade stuff through Portage, but that you are (ok, _were_, as it has been a few moons since I used Gentoo) kept in the dark as to what has been nuked does not help me to keep a system running smoothly unless I spend time to track down and re-modify what was smashed back into default values or whatever by Portage.
I will admit I am going from memory here, but this is 2004, people, and it should not be a painfully involved process to keep a system running & tuned after it is installed. I should not have to spend time trying to identify changed configuration files and whatnot, I have better things to do with my life.
Or maybe I never understood how Gentoo worked. But having dealt with various flavours of *nix since my Ultrix-on-{micro}VAX days, I think I have somewhat of a clue on how to manage a *nix system. And yet, with Gentoo, I saw my system become more and more discombobulated due, as far as I could perceive it, to bad config. (Clue stick welcome, here, if I am out to lunch about this.)
So, back to my initial question/gripe, have the Gentoo crew worked at making post-install management of the box saner?
Ingrid took the things I said completely out of context and ran with them.
At no point did I ever tell her that we would have a graphical installer on 2005.0's release media. I also did not tell her that the 2005.0 release would be a Knoppix-style LiveCD, as it will, in fact, be exactly like the 2004.3 release with the Minimal, Universal, and Packages CD images.
What I did tell her is that we will have an experimental LiveCD with our first limited functionality beta of the installer, which will most likely be curses-based only and not have any enterprise-ready features available for use.
This is exactly why you demand to have interviews done via email and not the phone, especially when speaking with someone from another country, and be sure to ask to proof read the article for accuracy before it prints.
If I see one more of this In Korea.... I'm going to add it to the slashdot subculture on wikipedia!
...In Japan
In fact it's already available on wikipedia
Profit!
Parent is 100% correct. Even on the new CD, one would have to type "setup" to load up the installer and use it.
It depends on whether reiser 4 makes it into the vanilla kernel in time or not. Gentoo no longer patch their kernels with large patchsets that are likely to breaks things.
I use KDE on gentoo and have a gig of RAM. With several windows open KDE uses 10% (100MB) of that RAM. I have another machine that uses KDE with 512 MB of RAM and KDE hogs a little less on that (60-80 MB). I hardly ever hit swap on either machine. Application data often sits in RAM after being closed, and will just get re-allocated down the line if RAM is needed.
Actually the worst memory hog (by far) is Java. Java seems to be the only thing that makes me hit swap on a regular basis.
So what if its not being developed? Many video postproduction houses and even Networks use the Video Toaster/Flyer (from NewTek, who is now making PC NLE systems with live switching capabilities) switcher/NLE which run on the Amiga. I personally have 2 Amigas on my desk over there (one of them is down right now as my toaster card needs to go out for recalibration). Without Amiga, there would be no LightWave!
--
Let it be, let it be, my Amiga works for me </SIG>
Video Production Support
Except that under Linux it's because of caching and gets freed up as soon as it's needed.
- Leon Mergen
http://www.solatis.com
the real advantage is being able to "turn off" certain sections of the code with USE flags. Did you know bitchx can be compiled to use gnome? when the debian maintainers compile bitchx for you, they decide whether or not to include it. you don't have the choice.
/etc/make.conf file. my flags on my workstation are the following:
with gentoo, you can use the USE flags
USE="-gnome" emerge bitchx
USE="gnome" emerge bitchx
This allows me to say if I want gnome installed or not if it's just an optional feature on bitchx. Since I mostly use kde, I can do without installing all the gnome dependencies.
to see a list of flags for any given package (and their default status)
emerge -vp bitchx
[ebuild N ] net-irc/bitchx-1.1-r1 -cdrom -cjk -debug +esd -gnome +gtk -ipv6 +ncurses +ssl +xmms 2,473 kB
Then you can choose to enable them or not.
There are a lot of common flags, USE flags which you can set in the
USE="3dnow amd alsa bzlib cddb cdparanoia curl dnd dvd -dvdr ethereal flash gd glut -gnome gstreamer icq image magemagick imap java javascript kerberos krb4 ldap lm_sensors maildir md5sum mime ming mmx -mozilla mplayer msn jack ooo-kde openssh pdf rtc samba sasl threads type1 tiff usb xvid"
and this isn't even close to all of them.
If you'd like to learn more, let me know. I try not to be a zealot:)
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There's a good reason that the X configuration stuff is in the Desktop section: for some uses, linux doesn't need (or even have any benefit from) a gui.
That said, I do think the install docs should provide a link to the X configuration under a heading like "Where do I go from here?"
Y'know, you blow up one sun and suddenly everyone expects you to walk on water.
You'll also still have to compile all the software for your system, something you don't have to do, but can do using FreeBSD.
No you don't! Have you used gentoo? "emerge -k" installs the binaries if they are available. For most packages, they are available.
Not everything is analogous to cars. Car analogies rarely work.
"Gentoo's current installation process makes it impossible to have a functioning system without knowing the following:
* How partition and disk structure works
* How GCC actually functions
* How the kernel is installed and configured
* At least something about runlevels and init scripts"
That's utter rubbish.
The partitioning / disk structure is basically a 1-time following of the Gentoo manual. You can get through it without knowing anything other than the simple fact partitions reside on a single hard disk. That's hardly knowing how it all works.
How GCC functions? Don't make me laugh. "emerge foo" does not induce an in-depth understanding of GCC. Copying the basic CFLAGS from the documentation doesn't either. I'd wager the majority of Gentoo users (bearing in mind I'm a Gentoo user who has accumulated >2600 forum posts) don't really understand GCC at all other than knowing it's a tool that compiles.
As to how the kernel is installed and configured, most people somewhat bumble through that and a little thing called 'genkernel' is making said bumbling a lot easier to do.
As for runlevels and init scripts, again it's just a case of following the docs rather than knowing what they are and how they work.
Please, do not confuse "being aware they exist" and "understanding", with the term 'knowing' implying the latter. And Gentoo is a MILLION miles away from LFS. Aside from the fact (almost) everything gets compiled and they are both Linux, there really just aren't that many similarities.
I would suggest that it's more the time taken to set up Gentoo rather than the difficulty of it (which isn't that difficult for the majority whom the docs serve well) is what provides the entry barrier. Don't get me wrong, for the willing it can be an invaluable process that does introduce them to the fundamental Linux concepts. BUT the majority of users who get through the installation process are still woefully short of the knowledge needed to maintain a healthy system and you get a lot of silly posts in the forums as a consequence. I should know, I've made a few myself.
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not really the speed. At the time I tried it, early in 2004, it seemed to be the only readily available distribution that actually worked with AMD64. Fedora Core claimed to have a distro for it, but I read a lot of horror stories; Mandrake and others only seemed to have commercial payware products for the platform.
I did have problems with Gentoo (when using USB2 the whole computer slowed down, hotplug didn't seem to work right, etc.), so perhaps this was more a reflection of the maturity of Linux distros in general on the AMD64 platform. I also didn't really find it much faster that other distributions I've used on x86 machines.
I guess I'll have to try again soon. I'm currently stuck on WinXP since I needed something that worked, but it may be time to survey the current 64 bit landscape.
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In X-Windows the client serves YOU!
This version of *GENTOO* (a reasonably new distribution, typically used by hardcore linux geeks) now has a graphical install.
Redhat (now Fedora), SuSe, and others, have had graphical installs since.. Well.. I honestly dont remember. Several years, at least. I know Redhat 6 had it, and thats pretty ancient now.
Comparing Linux install to Windows install is a red herring, since *MOST* windows users wouldnt be able to install *EITHER*.
But my telling you about it is going to do nothing for you - you need to try yourself. Find yourself a spare machine (doesnt have to be bleeding new, some old 500Mhz machine would be fine), and grab a copy of Fedora Core2 or 3 (may not be the 'perfect' choice, but for getting an idea of Linux, its probably a good choice), and install it. Play with it. Install some apps. Break it. Reinstall it. etc.
See: this follow up posting under the original article
The 2.6 kernel will become the default kernel, not just for the liveCD, (which as been that since 2004.3) but for the distro. Instead of emerge gentoo-dev-sources for 2.6, it will be emerge gentoo-sources.