How Important is a Well-Known CS Degree?

syynnapse asks: "I've been interested in computer science since my mother taught me how to program in QBASIC when I was eleven, and I've wanted to be a developer ever since I learned C++ in AP Computer Science while in high-school. Now I'm in my sophomore year of college studying CS at a state university that isn't particularly known for its CS program, but I'm quite happy and personally think I'm learning plenty. My father thinks otherwise, and the deadline for transferring successfully is approaching quickly. What chance do I have in the real world with a not-so-prestigious degree? Am I likely to be learning what's important? Am I looking at a series of awful jobs if I don't transfer?"

Comments

Experience is key...

[danielrm26]

I honestly don't think it matters much. I imagine there are a few organizations that it does matter to, but I think those are few and far between.

The most important thing in the market today is experience. Go look on Monster or any of the other sites right now, and you'll see one phrase quite a bit - ...or equivalent experience.

In other words, a degree is a bonus now rather than a prerequisite if you have talent and experience. If you have no experience and no big certifications, then a degree is something (and perhaps the degree from a bigger school could help a little), but the jobs available to you in this boat are not all that appealing for the most part anyway.

The great jobs go to those with solid experience, and for those people (and the people hiring them), the degree they have is considered decoration rather than the meat of the resume.

Perhaps this is different in the development field, but I doubt it; I'm coming from the infosec side of things and I imagine things are much the same for programmers.

In short, degrees and certifications are "get you in the door"-oriented credentials; the big jobs rarely go this breed of applicant.

Re:Experience is key...

[wass]

If the application money and time is not too much of a problem, then I would suggest applying for transfer, just to see what happens. If you get in, then you can consider your options further. If you don't get in, well at least you won't wonder about it for the rest of your life.

Once accepted, then consider the choices. The school will play some minor effect, for example having MIT on your resume will get your future employers/grad school's attention slightly more. However no worthwhile company or graduate school would put too much emphasis on the school alone. Employers and admissions groups are well aware that the best schools can easily graduate idiots, and smaller schools can easily graduate geniuses.

Really it depends on how well you do in your environment. If you work reasonably hard at a smaller school, you will stand out like a big fish in a little pond. And, if you do research work for some professors or groups (which I highly recommend), then at your chances are much higher that you can impress them enough for very personal letters of recommendation. From what I hear the letters of recommendation are typically the most important factor for future applicants to either companies or grad schools.

If you transfer to a big school, say MIT, then it's a different ballgame. You will certainly have a wider array of course offerings and research projects, and will have peers who will challenge you more. However you will also find it much more difficult to rise above the radar. The general body of student talent will be greater, and it's easier to fall under the noise floor, so to speak.

Beyond this it's hard to decide what to do without carefully looking at the details. I've seen situations that favor both sides. For example, I knew a guy that had a very good GPA in EE at a small school, and had the opportunity to transfer to a different place. His EE classes weren't very intensive, so his theory knowledge won't be as good. I was hoping he would transfer, because he had a good opportunity to do so. However, if his research went well enough, it might not matter too much.

On the flip side I've seen a few undergrads from schools with small physics departments do amazingly well. They would do research with a professor, do it really well, and then get into a top-tier school. Usually a professor at a small school will know many colleagues at the top-tier schools, and can easily pass a personal reference directly to them.

For companies instead of school, I know less of the hiring practice. School will probably play some factor, but they're more interested in knowing that you can get the job done than which school you went to. If you have good letters of recommendation to this end, you'll be fine.

Re:Experience is key...

[severoon]

It's not that you'll get a better or worse education. It's that you'll get a better or worse personal network. That's all it is.

I graduated from a prestigious university (not necessarily known for CS, in the spirit of full disclosure, but in the top 10 most presigious US News & World Report) with a CS degree, and I can tell you that most people I went to school with do no better or worse than anyone else simply by relying on the prestige of their degree. The people who do well are those who regularly play a role in alumni activities and contribute to the alumni social network. And, for whatever reason, the more prestigious the institution the more active the alumni are about helping each other out.

Have I personally gotten jobs through people I know/knew through university? Yes. Have others I know? Yes. If I didn't lift a finger to keep in contact with that network, would it help me at all to have my degree simply on my resume? Marginally, it might help me get my foot in the door, but the interview is the proving ground. Don't pass that, and it won't matter if you have letters from Caltech, MIT, and Carnegie-Mellon.

Re:Oft heard, but bullshit: Experience is key...

[badmammajamma]

I disagree completely. I have yet to be involved with an interview where the degree was a deciding factor for anyone and I've been in this business for 16 years. It ALWAYS comes down to experience and how well you do on the technical interview. People underestimate technical interviews. Here's how the decision is typically made in my experience:

60% Experience (this is what gets you in the door)
39% Interview (this is what gets you hired)
1% Piece of paper

Nobody puts weight on the paper because everyone knows that schools do not prepare programmers for the real world.

About the only exception I could see to the 1% rule is if you come from a particularly prestigious institution like MIT, CalTech, etc. That said, people who come from institutions like that usually do very well in the interview because they are ultra-geeks. In any event, since the percentage of the population coming from those places is extremely small, it's not really a factor.

Re:Two words for ya...

[eln]

Hi,

Your resume is ugly and difficult to read. Please, choose a different font, and format it better. Also, check the language flow, and ditch the scale of 1-10 stuff.

Also, you have tense problems. Some things use past tense, others use present. For ease of reading, it's best to use past tense in all job descriptions, including your current job.

Also, you have typos (empahses in last segment, possibly others). PLEASE proofread your resume. Nothing kills your chances faster than careless mistakes.

It's also not immediately clear if you have been working as an independent contractor all this time. Without that little tidbit of information, you look like a serial job-hopper.

Your opening paragraph reads like a recommendation letter from someone else. Show, don't tell. Don't tell me you're a great team leader, give me examples of when and how you were a great team leader. Don't tell me you can make tough decisions, give me an example of when you did so, and why your decision was the best one.

Hope this helps!

It depends...

[gillbates]

On what you want to do.

• If you're content to make a career out maintaining legacy code (COBOL, etc...), then just about any university will do, but:
• If you'd like to do anything interesting - applications, operating systems, etc - you definitely need to pay attention to the school, because:
• Your first job is determined largely by where you went to school. Some firms only recruit from one school, and if you aren't an alumni, you can forget being hired by them straight out of school.
• Your first job also determines, to a large degree, your career path.
• Regardless of how smart you actually are, you will acquire the reputation of your parent school - for instance, if it has a reputation for producing good COBOL programmers, you'll have companies that use COBOL beating a path to your door while the ones doing software development won't even bother looking at your resume.

Just a little side note: I went to a university known for having a good business and data processing curriculum. I took my first job writing in an obscure language for outdated mainframes. After about 2 years, I thought I'd look for a job doing what I really wanted to do, and the conversations with recruiters usually went like this:

Me: I'd like to start working as a game developer/engineer/etc...

Recruiter: Well, I see you've got many skills listed on your resume. But, what experience do you have as a developer/engineer/etc...?

Me: (sheepishly) Well, none - but it's something I'd really like to do. I've done some work on my own and read up on the subject quite a bit.

Recruiter: Well, that's nice and all, but my clients are going to want someone with solid experience... Would you be willing to take a job writing in COBOL instead?

You see, my mistake was twofold:

1. I didn't go to the right school, which meant that I had to:
2. Take a job doing something I really wasn't crazy about doing. Which led to people thinking of me as a "COBOL programmer" instead of a "Games Developer".

The perception problem is very real. If you stay at a lackluster school, you will neither get a good education, nor have a good career - at least not without a great deal of effort. Having a few years in an given technology tends to pigeon-hole your career prospects, and you might find yourself unable to find a position doing what you want to do if you don't get in with a good company right after graduation.