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Network Scheduling to Mess with Tivo
Yahoo is running a bit about Networks messing with PVRs by adding a minute to shows. If a show runs to 9:01, then you can't Tivo a show on another channel that starts at 9. I've noticed this, although it's less of a factor if you have a dual tuner tivo, but it's interesting to see a bit of mainstream coverage.
I don't think this tactic is specifically used to target TiVo.
The article mentioned people who use VCRs and digital video recorders like TiVos are affected. But I guess putting TiVo in everything is a must now. Imagine an Open Source TiVo-like software that can be installed in iPod to provide time-shifting functionality for old people in Korea.
Anyway, If I had to choose, I would take 30 seconds off the end of the 1st show and 30 seconds off the next one, they're usually opening or trailer for next show.
Rock that crushes, Paper & Scissors that don't matter.
I have noticed this for about a year and a half now. Most notably on Thursday nights with NBC programming.
ER starts at 8:59, which prevents me from recording CSI on CBS which runs from 8:00 to 9:00.
All TiVo has to do is change its programming a bit. They actually contribute to the conflicts by not allowing you to start recording a program late. Sure you can start recording early, or stop late, but unless you do it completely manually, it is not possible to start late and or end early.
My old VCR used to handle this somewhat more gracefully. If I had a weekly program, say from 7:00 to 8:00, and I had another program that recorded from 7:00 to 7:30, it would record the first program (if it had a higer priority) and then switch channels to record the last half of the other program.
I do not see why TiVo can't simply change the software to "record as much as possible, even if a few minutes are lost" rather than the current model of "even if one minute conflicts, the whole program is abandoned".
Hear that TiVo? Missing features!
As the article summary notes, this isn't a problem for dual-tuner PVRs.
Most PVRs offered by cable and satellite providers, such as Charter's Motorola BMC9012 offering, are just that. And, adding another tuner (or several tuners) to media PCs, such as those running MythTV or the surprisingly good Windows XP Media Center Edition 2005, is a simple task (for a person so inclined to have a media PC in the first place).
So, yes, it's interesting to see this acknowledged, but the tactic does show up in the guides (e.g., ER starting at 8:59PM CT), and for multi-tuner PVRs it is not at all an issue.
What will be far more interesting to me is the networks' and content providers' handling and usage of the Broadcast Flag (more, more, more), which will probably be utilized to prevent digital and/or HD recording, and thus prevent (easy) skipping of ad content, of some "high value" shows altogether, as well as allowing the placement (force feeding?) of new shows to piggyback on existing "popular" shows.
Interesting that while the invention of the VCR has been recently lauded as releasing people from the prison of having to watch "prime time" TV in prime time, the Broadcast Flag may essentially shoot us back 20 years. And most consumers don't understand or know the rights that have already been granted them enough to know the difference.
(And why don't content providers understand that: 1. this won't stop pirates from pirating TV, and that 2. this only makes it harder on ordinary consumers?)
TV has largely succeded, in the footsteps of Radio, by networks and stations being good about time boundaries. Once anarchy happens, where networks ge into the habit of 5 minutes this or that way, they can pretty much cut their own throats. This was extremely irritating when Turner did it.
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
TiVo began advising its 2 million subscribers to watch out for such time conflicts and to adjust their recording settings manually.
Couldn't TiVo finish off the first one (maybe 31 minutes), and proceed to record the next despite it's 1 minute late?
Maybe a patch will check for any conflicts and prompt users to choose from a few options, for istance, give weight/priority to a particular show.
Rock that crushes, Paper & Scissors that don't matter.
Yes. I'd like to see soft scheduling. If the tuner isn't in use for something else I'd like it to record an extra five minutes before and after the show I'm interested in.
I'd also like to see these PVRs available with four tuners.
Just don't let TiVo change their 30 sec commerical skip code.
I'll miss a few shows as long as I can blast away commericals from my remote control.
If one program concludes at 5min past the hour and the other starts on the hour and you don't have a TIVO or VCR, well now you need one!
If you want to time shift, now you need TWO machines.
I bet the hardware vendors are secretly smiling because most consumers are too stupid to apply anything other than the brute force, buy more $hit solution.
IMO, more people are 'addicted' to TV than to cigarettes, crack, food, tentacle rape, and opossum fishing COMBINED!
Now I'm the grandest Tiger in the Jungle!
Seems more to be anti competitive to other networks than to prevent it from being recorded.
If CSI runs until 10:02, and ER starts RIGHT AT 10 like they do, it is very likely my wife will take the laptop off my lap and hurl it through our TV.
It's bad enough with those two anyway if you're a fan of both. This is a problem for regular people who want to watch one thing at 9 and something else on another network at 10.
Thank you guys, thank you for reminding me why I pay for CABLE. Assclowns.
I like music
Doesn't this affect the average tv viewer as well? I am watching ER from 8:00 to 9:01 and then I want to change the channel to watch (insert other popular program here) that airs from 9:00 to 10:00, I've just missed the first minute of the second show. Of course thats not a problem if you only watch one network, maybe that is what they are trying to promote more than fcking with TiVos.
Nor can you watch all of both shows when they air. They are not just screwing the Tivo users, they are screwing up their core customers, the ones who watch live, commercials and all. This is hardly a new practice, Fox has been starting the Simpsons early for years. But it certainly is growing in it's adoption. It's not just a minute either, in many cases (at least with NBC) it's several, and those minutes can be on either end (the show might start early, or end late).
Rather than hurting the TIVO users, this pratice may well drive more normal viewers to becoming multiple tuner TiVo users (and skipping the commercials in the process).
I'm an American. I love this country and the freedoms that we used to have.
Same here.
I'm wondering how long before some bright CEO decides that they can cut out the distribution network and provide straight to the consumer.
BitTorrent/NetFlix take care of all my TV needs. I also wonder if NetFlix could not distribute instead of the cable company. For a fee send me a DVD a week with the latest XYZ show on it. Would seem to b a huge business waiting to be tapped.
Trust me, he's already heard about "soft padding". You should instead ask him why they haven't implemented it yet, considering that TiVo owners have wanted it for years now.
And the men who hold high places must be the ones who start
To mold a new reality... closer to the heart
...you are not their customer. advertisers are.
We are the PRODUCT my friend, as surely bought and paid for as any box of laundry detergent, or any slave.
The only customers the networks have is the advertisers.
It was a joke! When you give me that look it was a joke.
Ah yes, the contradiction of TV. The stupidities that annoy us all can be explained when we realise that the show is not the product. The viewer is the product and we are being sold to the advertisers. The TV networks care little about the show or the viewer at all. As long as they get the viewer in front of the tube so they can get their advertising revenue, that's all that matters.
This whole 'our programming' and 'our way' thing has not entered the mind of the TV execs at all. Again I am reminded of why I prefer DVDs.
While I'm sure that dicking with PVR owners is a side effect that the networks like. I beleive that the realy reason for this is to squeeze yet another minute of commercials into popular shows. Unfortunatly for the networks this tactic will have the effect of driving more people to the Internet to download their shows totally free of commercials.
The difference between Canada and the USA is that in Canada healthcare is a right and gun ownership is a privilege.
I think their schedule has been offset by 5 minutes for decades
I got around this by getting a MythTV box and setting it to always record 5 minutes after and 5 minutes before. Sure you can do this with TiVo, but MythTV has one advantage - it can support more than two tuners. This is important because back to back shows will overlap with the extra end and beginning padding. I currently have three Hauppauge PVR-250 tuner boards in mine, and I haven't had any real scheduling conflicts with the scheme yet (although I'm thinking of getting a 4th just in case).
Also, it keeps you watching, by a new, unseen technique...
GOOD CONTENT!
History Channel is the only channel I miss from cable TV...
--
Wiki de Ciencia Ficcion y Fantasia
for each recording or season pass, you can set it to record up to 5min before and 5min after. please RTFM before proclaiming tivo can't handle it.
This is, of course, a zero-sum game. For every person who quits watching CSI: Springfield because Law and Order: Metermaids runs late, there will be one person who quits watching L&O:M to catch CSI:S. If all networks synced up to the Naval Atomic Clock and started shows at hour-and-15-seconds and ended them at hour:59:45, more shows would get watched overall. A rising tide lifts all boats.
But hey, where does cooperation and common sense belong in corporate America, even if it can be easily proven that it's the best thing to do for all involved?
Dear Slashdot: next time you want to mess with the site, add a rich-text editor for comments.
Aren't there any TiVo employees out there who could give us a hint why simple usability features like this are never implemented? Anonymously would be fine. _ TiVo did a great job with their software to begin with but, speaking as a customer, the pace of improvement is frustrating.