Knights of the Old Republic 2 Ships

The sequel to the hit console/PC game Knights of the Old Republic shipped to retailers on Tuesday. KOTOR II: The Sith Lords has been surrounded by trepidation as original developer Bioware was replaced by relative newcomer, Obsidian Entertainment. Gamespot has a review available. From the review: "you might have a much tougher time settling into The Sith Lords, since chances are you'll feel like you've played this game before, only you'll swear it looked better the first time. But, on the other hand, so what? It's just as important to note that no other game since Knights of the Old Republic has managed to deliver this excellent style of role-playing. If you're a Knights of the Old Republic fan, then you should find a certain satisfaction in knowing almost exactly what you're in for going into The Sith Lords."

Comments

Is this a worthy update or not?

[hine_uk]

The first game left me a bit cold (not flaming or trolling so calm down :) ) because I just couldnt get into the battle system - Im a typical FPS shooter and tried a different genre. I am tempted to try this again but is it a case of more of the same which I know a hell of alot of people are waiting would be happy with, or is it another refinement and a step to once again try the rpg format? Comments please from anyone who has played. Thanks

Re:Is this a worthy update or not?

[harrkev]

Everything is a matter of taste. Maybe RPGs are not for you? I loved KOTR, and I like RPGs in general. But I am not a fan of FPS. I did not buy Doom 3, but I might pick it up when it is $5 in the bargain bin. Everybody has different tastes.

The problem (from your perspective, I would imagine) is that many RPGs tend to have a strange real-time/turn-based hybrid combat system. In a FPS, you hit the mouse and a shot goes ringing out immediately. In many RPGs (including this one) you give a command, and it is placed in a queue. The combat really is turn-based, but each character is taking their turn at the same time, which gives the illusion of real-time combat. Once your character has had his "swing" for the turn, they just stand around and do nothing while other higher-level characters get their bonus attacks. Being an old dog (Vic 20 anybody?) I am used to turn-based systems. So, for me, falling into a hybrid system like this was easy. Youngsters raised on Doom and Quake, on the other hand, might have a hard time getting used to this.

For what it's worth, this is the best KOTOR is the best RPG that I have ever played since Fallout and Fallout 2. The Fallout series is definatley turn-based, but given the limitations of hardware at the time, I think that they made as close to a perfect RPG as has ever been made (except for some strange bugs in FO2). So, since KOTOR is pretty much as good as it gets as far as RPGs go (at least for Star Wars fans), then RPGs probably are not your cup of tea. But that's OK. Not everybody has the same good taste that I do ;)

Not wanting to spoil the first one

[landimal_adurotune]

But the plot twist in KoTR made my jaw drop. I had not been so wrapped up in a plot in a game for ages. I loved the combat system and the good/evil path in it.

Here's crossing my fingers the plot is as good this time around, too bad my wife is impervious to the old Jedi mind trick when it comes to liberating the $50 bucks for a game.

Re:Not wanting to spoil the first one

[MagicDude]

the good/evil path in it.

That was an interesting element in the first one, but it wasn't as good as it could have been. The choices were blindingly obvious for whether you wanted to be light or dark side. It was either "save the old man being mugged give him money to pay off his debt to the crime lord" or "Kill the muggers, take their stuff, kill the old man, take his stuff". Being on the dark side of the force does not mean you're supposed to be a dick all the time. The dark side is supposed to be seductive, the quick and easy path to power with disregard to the consequences, which is not inherantly evil (though it almost always involves stopming the weak and innocent in order to accomplish this goal). I would have liked more choices where the dark side was one of a quick and satisfying but barbaric solution to a problem, where as the light side was an ambiguous solution to the problem which would probably make things more difficult for you down the road.

"Relative Newcomer"?

[superultra]

Obsidian is not a "relative newcomer." They've been around for over 6 years. Ok, so they changed their name, but by and large Obsidian consists of Black Isle refugees from Interplay. They've been making games nearly as long as Bioware, and have always had a very fruitful relationship with them. Bioware starts a franchise and engine, and Black Isle/Obsidian come along and do more of the same quality. I have no doubt KOTOR II will be the same way. I love how the reviews of KOTOR II keep referring to the "unproven" Obsidian. These guys made Planescape. Need I say any more?

"graphics not so good"

[ssand]

Saying that is kind of general. Not so good as in on par to KOTOR, or a little worse, or alot worse? Some people feel that graphics is everything, but nothing is worse than a pretty game with nothing too it. As for it being similar, it is a sequal, so many will expect the same controlls and what not.

Perhaps the future?

[SmallFurryCreature]

I am talking about a game that uses nearly the same tech and just adds a new story re-using a lot of the material.

Games are very expensive to develop. Basically you got the following areas to cover.

• The engine (not just graphics but also things like collesion detection, basic ai, scripting capabilty in short what you get when you license quake or source or unreal).
• Artwork. All the models and textures and sounds that make a game and of course the levels themselves. This only seems to increase.
• The game. This is hardest to define but is basically that wich makes a level be a game and not just a static set for you to noclip through. Basically the story.

Kotor seems to have basically used the same engine and re-used a lot of the artwork. Only the story has changed. Considering typical development time of Kotor 1 and Kotor 2 it seems that it has saved them a huge amount of time == money.

I have been thinking that this must ultimately be the way for the game industry to get better. Hollywood has long since stopped making custom sets for each movie. During the golden age they had a few stock sets wich were slightly remoddelled or just short from different angles between different movies. A lot of the b&w westerns have exactly the same street.

Say that sometime in the future it becomes possible to make big enough levels so that you do have a realistic city (and not just 1 short street). You could then make a series of episodes all set in the same city but following different stories. In the first episode the barber beneath your apartment would just be empty but another episode wich needs it adds the graphics but reuses the ones from your apartment. It would reduce the cost for each episode and each episode could be produced much faster.

At the moment the game industry is reinventing the camera and sound equipment and the basic tech of set building for each and every game. It usually gives us huge improvements but it also takes 2-3 years between games wich have to recoup all their investments in one sale. Expansion packs are sometimes a way to get some extra money but expansion packs are rare on non-hd game systems for obvious reasons.

Would there be a market for shorter games costing less wich you can buy new chapters/stories for?

The Sims 1 sold for years with the same engine. Half-Life mods have a following long after the engine had been surpassed. And these are PC games where the hardware gets better a lot faster and more often then on consoles. Yet kotor 2 for the x-box (a really crap piece of hardware by PC standards) gets slagged for not improving the visuals.

Is the reviewer just whining or is the industry doomed to have to rebuild the engine for each story?