Slashdot Mirror
Dutch Gov't Doubles Back On Open-Source Goals
An anonymous reader writes "Despite a 2002 unanimous vote by the Dutch parliament to prefer open standards and open source, exclusive negotiations with Microsoft were started. MPs have started asking questions already, but will add some more now that a Dutch journalist discovered that the deal will cripple the open source ambitions. The deal not only covers desktop software, but lets Microsoft deliver server software and support as well. MPs are outraged, and the EU may investigate why no mandatory public bid was started. In an open letter to the government, public organizations and open source companies like Novell raise hell. How can you ever fight bureaucrats?"
I guess we know what this means, that for some people at least all the talk about using open source and open standards was just a play to squeeze Microsoft.
And remember kids: Never trust a computer you can actually lift.
As of now I have no doubt whatsoever that Microsoft is excessively bribing the deciders in the european political open source and software patent discussion. Simple and flat out. Deciders that don't have the haziest of concepts of what software and open source is about get invited to sessions with "software-experts" on 100 percent MS payroll, taking all their crap for granted. And most certainly later on cut a deal on consulting or for holding a keynote or something other.
The irish EU presidency saw the up to then most extreme case, with the president taking a 180 turn of the decision the EU-parlament had issued not longer than a half a year earlyer on software patents.
We are about to see more of this.
I very much welcome the EU officials looking into this and (hopefully) preparing appropriate measures of dealing with flat-out violations of law like this one.
We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca
It's meaningless; "mid and long term" just gives them an excuse to ALWAYS say that it'll be considered for the "next" contract. And gives them a club to beat MS with to get bigger discounts.
Beats me.
...?
But then, it's probably kind of like "American". Does it refer to Canada-related stuff, Mexico-related stuff, Guatemala-related stuff, Honduras-related stuff, El-Salvador-related stuff, Costa-Rica-related stuff, Panama-related stuff, Colombia-related stuff, Venezuela-related stuff, Brazil-related stuff, Peru-related stuff, Argentina-related stuff, Chile-related stuff,
My thoughts exactly.
But make sure that you have a sane replacement ready, before their position is filled with a next-gen bureaucrat with ideas in new and innovative ways of cluelessness.
yes, I am sure that the microsoft contract negotiations are just a ploy to get a better price on the open source software. :)
This is clearly an indication of how deeply infected the Dutch IT scene is. Really, it's funny. The original open source decision was to prevent companies like MS from being able to gain subtle control of the IT decisions... but now it looks like the MPs were a couple of years too late. :)
I say, give microsoft its Dane's Geld and move on. Don't tick them off, or they'll raise the price even further (and its obvious the Dutch will HAVE to pay...).
Ok, so which would you rather have?
They stay with MS for the time being, spend some extra money, and keep applying those patches?
Or they switch all everything over right now, and everything comes crashing down because the sysadmins are not competent with the new software?
I think a gradual switch is definitely preferable. This seems to be exactly what is happening (the text clearly states that OSS remains the goal for the long term).
Please correct me if I got my facts wrong.
Where is there and here? I guess what you are talking about is typical for all modern democracies, but still..
When I have discussed open source with Danish officials, they are always very conservative. They would choose to go for a more expensive, but known solution any day. If the known solution is on a discount they would not think about it for a minute. Civil servants are not like politicians at all. They aren't supposed to take any decisions (ideally), but to make everything work on a day to day basis. This make them shun risk at any cost, even if trying something new could bring big savings, more efficiency or the like. They live in a political world but opposed to the politicians their objective isn't to have a profile but to avoid making mistakes. They are as far as you come from an entrepreneur.
Or in politiceeze:
/pro
"this does not change the fact that on mid [english: after I retire] and long term [english: after Im dead and buried], the alternative of open source software receives all attention [english: attention by someone else, maybe]."
let's avoid being indignated and be constructive against such practices.
The reason people are indignant is that they've seen it before and there is nothing the common man can do to fight it. In the USA, despite all the outrage online RIAA and MPAA still get whatever bills and lawsuits they need into action; there was a huge grassroots effort to stop, then overturn the DMCA and it still exists; people have been "raising hell" about the PATRIOT Act for years now to no avail; and when citizens have voted locally in states to pass such things as medical marijuana, stem cell research and gay marriage laws, they have only prompted attack by the Feds.
This is what happens when you sign your power over to others for collective use; they use it to further their own ends and the ends of their friends, inevitably. This is the reason for the concept of inalienable rights outlined in several historical documents including the Magna Carta and the US Declaration of Independence.
Actually this was to be expected from a right-wing
dutch government that there is now, this government
is not only kneeling down (and praying) to G.W.B.
but also to B.G. The urge to be like the USA is felt
more and more in Holland the last few years.
Question is, what do we do about this ?
The job of government is to use the right tool for the job.
If that tool is Microsoft software, thats fine.
What is needed, however, is an insistance on Open Standards whenever possible (for example, I doubt you will find a police dispatch system built around Open Standards).
And then have a competitive tender process.
If Open Source can show a better outcome than Microsoft software, it should be used. But if Microsoft software is the better alternative, use it.
The political system is, in its way of making decisions, very far from the way you makes decisions in IT departments, small and big (there is of course a certain political influence even here). But for politicians it is not about having the most efficient system. It doesn't matter if it is expensive as long as you have control and can avoid scandals. MS offers exactly the kind of control that politicians like. With MS they talk to people in suits that can be manipulated economically. This is preferable to Idealist.
The good thing is that their fear of scandal can be used and that is what have happened, recently. The politicians worst nightmare is to look like a crafty bureaucrat and therefore they actually respond to the public pointing out the inconsistency of their arguments. We will see lots of this kind of things in the near future and that is a good thing. This whole slashdot story is about somebody trying to sneak MS in the backdoor. Five years ago nobody would have noticed.
Ask the Iraqis, I guess. If you aren't willing to go to such extremes, either infiltrate them or put forward a genuinely and observably superior alternative.
The OSS movement needs to win people over, not fight them
I have been a user for about 10 years. This ends Feb 2014. The site's been ruined. I'm off. Dice, FU
They are currently knee-deep in MS contracts. When those expire, they can't just switch to something else on a whim, they have to be prepared. Switches like this are difficult, and need ot be planned out. The advantages are long-term, not short-term.
So given that you have a huge IT infrastrucutre that relies on MS, and your service and support contracts are expiring.. what do you do? You negotiate with microsoft for how to proceed.
An agreement to persue and prefer open source doesn't mean dropping the ball on everything you are currently doing.
Contrary to what many here think, I believe that this is a good and reasonable decision. Right now they have an MS solution that is most likely near the end of life. They bought themselves a big discount and some time from MS by voicing their dissatisfaction and intent to look into open source so they might as well use it to provide a smooth transition while they wait for the opensource solution to come together and prove itself in the marketplace. I like Linux, and use it myself on the desktop when appropriate, but it still isn't a 100% solution and replacement for their desktop environment and it still hasn't proved itself in a comparable situation. Just think how the story would go if they tried to go to Linux prematurely and it failed and they had to go crawling back to MS. Can you imagine the press and the damage to Linux's reputation? This was by far the better thing for the Dutch, the better thing for Linux, and also a good thing for MS in the short term and gives them one last chance to prove their modern solution is superior to their previous generations and maybe good enough to take some of the reasons for a switch away. Given the progress on the desktop Linux front things might be alot different and more mature in two or three years and that OS and migration is the exposure that we want to give Linux. MS will also have a harder sell with Longhorn about that time. Just be patient and keep plugging along with development and testing and remember that when it comes to something this prominent and on this scale this we want to make a good first impression and not an embarrassing defeat.
... the elctorate get the govemrnet they deserve.
In the Netherlands they decided that a populist, unexperienced "party" was a good choice while many sane people in th rest of Europe were rolling their eyes in disbelief.
Well, now you have the consequences.
Goverments had never governed (and they should not, IMHO) based on demonstrations or opinion polls. Goverments are suppossed to have a plan and they should try to implement it.
How from a clueless goverment elected by, pardon the battering, clueless people, you jump to your tirade about corruption, is baffling.
To say that corruption is swept under the carpet in Europe is ludicrous. Berlusconi in Italy just was half aquited on corruption charges, a close ally was sentenced to 9 years for mafia links. In Germany people close to Helmut Khol were sentenced for all kind of muddy dealings, in the UK politicians that fail to live to expections regularly have to resing and in some cases even go to jail.
Your ascertion is completely untrue and clueless, corruption is fought all around Europe.
Compare that with Ronald Reagan and his mob, breaking the law, and living to be hailed as heroes for doing so.
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
The answer is simple: forget about 'linux' vs 'windows' talk about a Dutch software vendor vs an American software vendor.
No Dutch linux vendor? Then talk about European vs American, or some entrepreneurial Dutch company can repackage the German SUSE.
The reason people are indignant is that they've seen it before and there is nothing the common man can do to fight it. In the USA, despite all the outrage online RIAA and MPAA still get whatever bills and lawsuits they need into action; there was a huge grassroots effort to stop, then overturn the DMCA and it still exists;
Where'd did you ever get that the idea there was a "huge" grassroots movement? Nobody has been canvassing my neighborhood to sign petitions nor have I seen any million person anti-DMCA marches on Washington. Sure it's a common topic on some internet sites but it's rarely mentioned in the mainstream media.
Time is what keeps everything from happening all at once.
I believe we need to start the Open Source Bribery Fund (OSBF) to level the playing field. After all, you will always have some corrupt decision-makers to deal with, and evening out the bribery between solutions would perhaps encourage them to think of the actual merits of each solution.
-- Fratz, human
How can you ever fight bureaucrats?
Fighting bureaucracy is like punching a marshmallow. All you'll do is wear yourself out.
Systems of people are self-motivating however. I'd suggest giving them a scant budget based on cheaper alternatives (like zero euros for software licenses for OS, office software after, say, 2 years) Then, if they really want what they perceive as advantages of MS software, they can take it out of their own hides (no new office furniture, turn down the thermostats, re-use toilet paper, etc.).
Oh, and a few mandates to require that public offices provide the public with information in free, standard open public formats.
If the responsible decision-makers still believe that MS software provides cheap and standard methods for churning through the public's business, then let them prove it by living it.
"Provided by the management for your protection."