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Battle of the Ages; Stereotypes Collide

JCOTTON writes "A CIO.com article By Phil Murphy explains that "The hype around the shortage of qualified legacy technologists grows each day. Pundits would have us believe that 1.5 million COBOL programmers will suddenly disappear one day, leaving any company with legacy technology in dire straits. The truth is that there are far more programmers with legacy skills looking for work than there are jobs for them, as evidenced by organizations like Legacy Reserves, which functions as a training and job matching service for unemployed or underemployed programmers wishing to modernize their skills." This article explains many of the issues facing "the upper half" of Information Technology workers."

6 of 319 comments (clear)

  1. Other side of the coin... by B5_geek · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I know I will get flamed by some out-of-work programmers out there,

    but...

    There are too many companies that refuse to move out of the computing Bronze-Age; bite the bullet and upgrade.

    The town that I work in (Blue-collar auto-industry) is filled with tool & die shops. Typical scenerio: The owner left the assembly line of Ford/GM/whatever 20 years ago and created his own company. He bought a DOS app to run his business on a 286-server/workstation, and he is surprised and insulted to find out that XP won't run on it.

    I have seen shops that Net revenue >$10 million/year, and they depend on a app written in BASIC!!!! as their life-blood.

    Holy shit people, it might be time to upgrade!

    There is a reason we don't (all) still use Horse & buggys. There is still a market for companies to make horse-shoes and buggy whips, (and I bet that company has a monopoly) but there are valid reasons to upgrade.

    There will always be a need for Legacy-based skills, but for the love of $deity don't hold onto old tech that you think "Well it used to be good enough!" .

    --
    "The price good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men." ~Plato (427-347 BC)
    1. Re:Other side of the coin... by Tassach · · Score: 4, Insightful
      There are too many companies that refuse to move out of the computing Bronze-Age; bite the bullet and upgrade.
      If it ain't broken, don't fix it.

      Seriously. A 30-year-old custom COBOL app has, in all probability, had all of it's bugs resolved 20 years ago. It works. Replacing a legacy system with a million lines of tested and proven code is going to be an expensive and dangerous proposition.

      I have seen shops that Net revenue >$10 million/year, and they depend on a app written in BASIC!!!! as their life-blood.
      If it works reliably and satisfies the business requirements, what does it matter what language it's written in? The answer is: it doesn't. If the bugs have been squashed and the requirements have not changed, there is NO reason whatsoever to monkey with a working, stable system. "BASIC is for n00bs; Python is l33t" is not an adequate justification to replace a proven system.

      There are plenty of applications that work perfectly with a curses-based interface runing on dumb green-screen terminals -- just because the technology used isn't "cool" does not mean that there's any benefit in replacing it with a GUI or web-based interface or whatever else is "cool" this year.

      Holy shit people, it might be time to upgrade!
      Holy shit people, it might be time to develop some professionalism. It's not about who has the coolest toys -- it's about satisfying the business requirements in the most cost-effective manner.
      for the love of $deity don't hold onto old tech that you think "Well it used to be good enough!"
      The question isn't "did it used to be good enough?", the questions are "is it currently good enough?" and "can we justify the expense and risk of re-implementing it?".
      --
      Why is it that the proponents of "one nation under God" are so eager to get rid of "liberty and justice for all"?
  2. Windows Arrogance and Stereotyping by Spencerian · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I see, daily, an annoying point where IT users are OVER-trained in one technology set, which blinds them to more efficient and effective resolutions to company computer service and infrastructure.

    My business concentrates on Mac OS X systems used in a publishing environment. They work much like their Windows counterparts and could even be integrated with the larger domain for more efficiency. But when I speak of this to others they look at me with confusion and, maybe, heresy?

    These people act as if Macs are toys or inferior in some way. Of course, this is far from the case, but their training has changed how they see technology. This really isn't the old Mac/PC debate. (Apple lost the first war. But they still found an important place in today's computing world.)

    No computer technology is perfect, of course. But the mistaken ubiquity that IT is Microsoft and Microsoft is IT makes all other non-MS technicial initiatives and products harder to sell in concept or through a store.

    --
    Vos teneo officium eram periculosus ut vos recipero is.
  3. Multiple Languages, Anyone? by natoochtoniket · · Score: 4, Insightful
    I am frequently surprised that so many people consider themselves to be an X-Language programmer (for some particular X-Language). I think of myself as a computer scientist, or perhaps as a software engineer, but avoid labeling myself with any particular technology. After learning 40 or 50 languages and forgetting most of them, I have come to realize that I can learn a new language in a few days, and become comfortable with the library and environment in a few weeks.

    A carpenter is not a hammer-er, or a saw-er, or a drill-er. He is expected to be able to quickly learn and use any of those tools, as needed for the project. A new project can use a new tool (language, os, whatever) as needed for the application. When an old program needs maintenence, it may require some re-learning of the old tool, but that should not be difficult.

    I suspect the harder problem is preserving the old development systems and tools. If the compiler (or some other tool) hasn't been used in several years, there is a good chance that it won't work. Or, that we can't find it at all because it didn't get loaded onto the new host before the old host was scrapped. Or, that the old hard-copy manuals (how to use the tools) have rotted and/or been discarded in the trash.

  4. The learning curve isn't COBOL itself... by Richard+Steiner · · Score: 4, Insightful

    ...but rather the database and transaction (or batch) environment that the COBOL itself runs in.

    An IBM CICS programmer familiar with DB2 would have a tough time coming into a Unisys A-series shop that uses COMS and DMSII, not to mention the culture shock when his JCL-conditioned mind runs into a job control language like WFL. :-) Although he might survive the shock if he's been exposed to REXX...

    --
    Mainframe/UNIX Bit Twiddler and long time Windows/Linux Hobbyist.
    The Theorem Theorem: If If, Then Then.
  5. "Labor Shortage" yellow alert by Tablizer · · Score: 4, Insightful

    One must be cautious when they hear the word "labor shortage". Lobbying organizations such as ITAA are paid millions of dollars from large tech companies to lobby congress and the papers about the doom and gloom of tech labor shortages. This is to justify more visa workers and offshoring. In other words, the "cheap labor lobby".

    I am not saying that this is necessarily what the article's author has heard, but it would not surprise me. Organizations like ITAA are shrewd and tenacious. They recently managed to influence many small-city newspapers to publish articles about the dangers of tech labor shortages by quoting companies who allegedly will go under unless they import Indians or move to India. Their leader, Harris Miller, lobbied for more agricultural migrants (fruit pickers) from Mexico in his previous job, according to some sources.

    The excuse is the same for tech as it was for agriculture: "Americans don't want fruit-picking jobs". At $3-per-hour, who would? They want to do to tech what they did for agriculture. Different career, same plan.

    They should be on the same "geek enemy list" as SCO.