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Sought for MGM v. Grokster: Non-Infringing P2P Use

Posted by timothy on from the that-lessig-fellow-might-have-some-words dept.

linuxizer writes "Since my last Slashdot entry, I've been discussing various copyright issues with the ever-interesting Peter Fader. Out of those conversations came sniu.info, an attempt to document the various forms of substantial, non-infringing use over peer-to-peer networks before MGM v Grokster goes to the Supreme Court. So far I have about 50 entries, but more suggestions would be much appreciated. Some fellow /. readers might also be interested in my fairly regular posts on copyright/IP issues, which are mostly links to interesting articles with occasional commentary."

21 of 377 comments (clear)

  1. BT has a valid use, for example. by keyne9 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    World of Warcraft by Blizzard utilizes the BitTorrent methods to distribute patches/updates. That's basically rousing support for a peer-to-peer method from a very well known company servicing several hundred thousand users.

    1. Re:BT has a valid use, for example. by Dragoon412 · · Score: 3, Informative

      THe problem with this is that their BitTorrent distribution system was much-maligned during beta. It fared so poorly that it had to be scrapped for release.

      It was a great idea in theory, but in practice, it meant beta testers were still trying to download the 2.5GB client at a piddling 10k/s days or even a week after a new beta client went live, and downloading the client via BitTorrent in the middle of a particular push was next to impossible. Personally, I found it so slow, I wound up pulling the client down off newsgroups, instead, at a much higher speed.

      Blizzard's BitTorrent distribution was a cool idea, and I'm sure it saved them a few bucks worth of bandwidth, but it was a far cry from a success.

    2. Re:BT has a valid use, for example. by AllUsernamesAreGone · · Score: 3, Informative

      In that case, possibly a better example for BitTorrent could be X-Plane. Austin distributes the demo, betas and updates for the software using BT and he has done since the early 7.x releases. It may not have the tens of thousands of users, but it is a substantial legal use...

    3. Re:BT has a valid use, for example. by Dragoon412 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      True enough, I wasn't trying to disqualify the parent's suggestion simply because it didn't work out. But let's be rational:

      Say a politician wants to ban cars because they can be used to cause so much death and destruction. Someone wants a list of safe, legal applications for cars. Well, there's driving to work, driving to school, fetching groceries, etc.

      Considering the abundance and usefulness of all the successful and purpose-built functionality cars have, would makes they make a damned fine counterweight for turning a cherry picker into a trebuchet really carry much weight? Probably not, and neither should the failure of Blizzard's awful BitTorrent implimentation.

      Sure, it can be used that way, but it's not particularly well-suited to it, and it sort of caught me off guard that considering what (legal) uses P2P technologies do use, one of the lamest implimentations yet was the first to be mentioned.

    4. Re:BT has a valid use, for example. by arose · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Don't forget to put the right spin on it: if BitTorrent wasn't available the developers of X-Plane would have to pay more for bandwidth, so having BitTorrent is good for commerce.

      --
      Analogies don't equal equalities, they are merely somewhat analogous.
  2. Distro ISOs? by jacksonj04 · · Score: 4, Informative

    It may just be me who can't spot it in the list, but where is using BitTorrent to distribute the latest ISO images for Linux installs? Not to mention all the patches etc...

    --
    How many people can read hex if only you and dead people can read hex?
  3. Getting around Censorship by GoodNicsTken · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Durring the beginning of the Iraq war, I used P2P to get video and pictures that were censored from the US. The instant I hear about pictures, recordings, etc. on another network they can't show in the US, I go find them on P2P. Along with that search, I also found pictures that solders had taken along the way. Then I found gunship video (de-classified and classified because it had altitude/other readings) showing people walking into a building. The order came, and they leveled the building. Then started firing on anyone leaving the scene. You could actually see the men get thrown around after getting hit with munitions. On, and this video just happened to show one man running into a mosque so he was let go. (sure it wasn't leaked on purpose)

  4. LegalTorrents.com by jhalludel · · Score: 5, Informative

    how about http://www.legaltorrents.com/ URL says it all...

  5. Uses ? by butlerdi · · Score: 4, Interesting

    We use P2P (JXTA) in our food traceability project. Users keep their data locally but allow others within their group to access the data to build the required product documentation. This is done to comply with upcomming EU and US legislation.

    --
    "If the King's English was good enough for Jesus, it's good enough for me!" -- "Ma" Ferguson, Governor of Texas (circa
  6. Well... by fitten · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Assault rifles can be used for hunting, target practice, target competition, and recreational shooting (as can most guns).

    Assault rifles, and guns in general, aren't "evil" or are built to serve nefarious purposes.

    Similarly, P2P networks can solve a host of distribution issues.

    It's the idiots that use them for illegal purposes (assault rifles, guns, or P2P networks) that cause the problems. Since the world is made up mostly of idiots, well... there you go.

    1. Re:Well... by TrollBridge · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Except that most guns aren't used to commit crimes.

      And though we'll never have conclusive, accurate metrics on leval vs. illegal use of P2P, common sense tells me that the majority of users aren't downloading the latest version of Gentoo.

      --
      There's a Mercedes gap too. I want one and can't afford one, but it's not government's job to do anything about it.
  7. FreeAudio.org .... by Art+Pollard · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I run FreeAudio.org. The goal is to create audiobooks of the most important literary works on liberty and freedom. I regularly share our first work: Frederic Bastiat's classic book "The Law" via LimeWire. The works are intended to be downloaded and shared. (You can even post them on your website as long as the copyright info is kept intact.) Sometime today or tomorrow, I'll be posting our second work: The Narrative of the Life of Frederick Douglass. With both of these works, there is a statement at the beginning encouraging people to share them "via their favorite file sharing service." So, not only is sharing via P2P allowed, it is encouraged. (Add one more to your list.)

  8. Knoppix. by Demon-Xanth · · Score: 3, Informative

    Want to distribute 700MB files all over the world w/o breaking your own backbone? Knoppix provides a torrent link that lets you DL it's live CD distribution from the bittorrent network rather than the choked FTP servers (which are often 7-10kb/sec).

    --
    If you think education is expensive, you should try ignorance -- Derek Bok, president of Harvard
  9. Well... by dfj225 · · Score: 4, Informative

    Right now I am using BitTorrent to download disk images of the X Live CD written about here on /. a few days ago and Fedora Core 3. I can't really think of any better examples of a legal use of a "p2p" network. I think BitTorrent is an especially good idea for OSS as it allows free software to be distributed in a manner that lowers the bandwidth usage of the host providing the software.

    --
    SIGFAULT
  10. A distinction may be drawn by Microlith · · Score: 4, Insightful

    between systems like BT versus Kazaa and Grokster. Their network structures are inherently different and as such must be considered independently.

    Legal uses of BitTorrent have been shown, but legit uses of Kazaa and Grokster are slim from what I've seen.

    You might argue that you could distribute public domain works, or GPL works, over Kazaa/Grokster but for things like Linux ISOs, BT works better and for low priority things HTTP and FTP work quite well.

    And please, people, don't bring up the "we should make all X illegal" analogy.

  11. BBC by Sirch · · Score: 4, Interesting

    The BBC is apparently considering using P2P for the distribution of their archives once it goes live.

    --
    We Build Beautiful Websites
  12. Re:Censored? No. by MarkusQ · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Ummm. there were no video/picture that were "censored from the US".

    Except for the more graphic images of US military personel torturing foreigners. And killing them during "questioning." And the bodies of US service men coming home. And who knows what else, because when stuff is being censored you don't necessarily know it.

    Remember, this is the country that routinely dropped colour from video taken "behind the iron curtain", leaving the impression that everything there was black-and-white. The country that loudly objected to the development of biological weapons anywhere, by anyone, until some of our congress critters got mailed samples of weaponized anthrax we had made in our biological weapons labs. Oops.

    Our legislators pass laws without reading them, in some cases without being allowed to read them and/or discuss them, and we pass laws which average citizens are not allowed to own a copy of.

    If you think there are no images censored from the US, you are nuts.

    --MarkusQ

  13. Knoppix by Bob_Robertson · · Score: 4, Informative

    http://torrent.unix-ag.uni-kl.de:6969/

    Knoppix has been using BitTorrent for distribution for a while. I think it's an excellent example for other distributions.

    Debian tried to use a distributed system where the packages for the .ISO were gathered from the mirror sites. I think BitTorrent would be a better way, and will suggest it.

    Bob-

    --
    The Ludwig von Mises Institute. The reasoning individuals economics
  14. Mod me -1: Religious Nut, but... by eSims · · Score: 4, Interesting
    We use a digital recording system to record mp3s and burn CDs of our church services. We intend to use P2P to defray the costs of bandwidth to be able to distribute the recordings freely. Since the church owns the copyright there are no legal encumbrences to this distribution.

    A Bit Offtopic: But Slashdot provided much of the info required for designing and building the recording device and to my knowledge there is none like it elsewhere.

    --
    I .sig therefore I am!
  15. Re:Censored? No. by Isao · · Score: 4, Informative
    especially that there are laws on the books, copies of which average citizens may not posess

    Not my assertion, but how about John Gilmore's efforts to reveal the Show ID to Fly requirement that apparently is a law we're not allowed to see. Bearing in mind that it's quite easy for conspiracy theorists to purport nonexistant secret laws, this at least has the appearance of one that does.

    As for barring reading of laws to be voted on, I cannot cite a blatent example of such. However, the Patriot Act was voted on several hours after a new version was printed (running several hundred pages). It is not clear that there was full understanding of the updated text prior to the vote (this is still a subject of debate).

  16. Re:My non-infringing use by WombatDeath · · Score: 3, Funny

    Yes, it's a new exhibit at Madame Tussauds, showing pop nymphettes impaled upon a variety of medieval weaponry. Well worth a visit if you've ever fancied seeing Kylie being violated with a halberd.