China Closes 1,129 Web Sites

Who wrote this? by Anonymous Coward · 2004-12-22 23:07 · Score: 2, Interesting

You can barely understand this post, is this some undercover Chinese agent working for Slashdot posting propaganda?

China Cracks Down on Freedoms... by borgheron · 2004-12-22 23:11 · Score: 3, Interesting

So far it seems as though they've cracked down on:

1) Freedom of Religion.
2) Freedom of Expression.

Now, I know that we're not talking about the US here, so the Chinese don't have these rights. It's so blatant that the Chinese are never going to change their stance on human rights.

Gotta love the Chinese.

GJC

--
Gregory Casamento
## Chief Maintainer for GNUstep

Re:China Cracks Down on Freedoms... by onion2k · 2004-12-22 23:21 · Score: 2, Interesting

The article only states that the websites were 'illegal', not the actual law the sites broke. If these were child porn, for example, they'd have been shut down in any number of other countries. The 114 shut down for promoting gambling etc is a little more sinister, but again, theres lots of places in the UK and USA you're not allowed to promote gambling..

There isn't really enough information in the article to say either way whether or not China has actually done anything particularly bad, or indeed different to the way western governments would have reacted.

--
http://twitter.com/onion2k
Re:China Cracks Down on Freedoms... by WIAKywbfatw · 2004-12-22 23:37 · Score: 4, Interesting

It's not so blatant to me. Change will come, but it will most likely come slowly rather than quickly, if for no reason other than China is a big country, with a huge population that enjoy a range of disparate lifestyles.

Sometime in our lifetimes China is going to become a consumer culture, consuming many of the goods that it already makes and exports to the rest of the world. My PDA was made in China. My keyboard was made in China. My colour laser printer was made in China. Can you see where I'm going with this?

Sooner or later, China's markets will open up to near Western levels. Chinese people will buy widescreen TVs, computers and designer goods. And when that happens, the gates will open too, albeit in a controlled manner. How strict those controls will be or how they will function is open to speculation but for over a decade now China has been becoming a more relaxed and less restrictive society.

Just because they have limits on internet access now that doesn't mean that they will always have limits on internet access. The US once had limits on the rights of blacks and women, yet it progressed from that point and China will to.

Don't forget, China isn't just a different country it's a different country with a totally different culture to that which we're familiar with in the West. Concepts that seem alien to us are natural to them, and vice versa. And, obviously, it's the negative aspects of Chinese society that always get played up rather than the positive ones.

And when it comes to things as subjective as human rights, please realise that there's an "eye of the beholder" aspect to be considered. You might regard China as being oppressive when it comes to religion or expression but there's not a country in the world that hasn't done the same at some time or another or that has its own human rights abuses going on right now.

So to recap, don't dismiss China as being stuck permanently on hold. China will progress and develop, but at its own pace and in its own time. Who knows when change will come and how suddenly. After all, the day before the Berlin Wall fell, or before Nelson Mandela was released, or any ground-breaking event, who would have predicted that such a radical change would come overnight?

--

"Accept that some days you are the pigeon, and some days you are the statue." - David Brent, Wernham Hogg
Re:China Cracks Down on Freedoms... by IO+ERROR · 2004-12-22 23:41 · Score: 5, Interesting

China Migrating from Socialism to a Capitalistic Republic. America Migrating from a Democracy to a Capitalistic Republic.

I'm afraid one of those is a little backward. Try this instead:
America Migrating from a Republic to a Capitalistic Democracy
If you think America was ever intended to be a democracy, you are sadly mistaken. The founding fathers considered democracy to be the most vile thing they could think of, even worse than the Crown from which they separated. That's why they didn't set one up here.

--
How am I supposed to fit a pithy, relevant quote into 120 characters?

How many sites exactly? by cybertears · 2004-12-22 23:12 · Score: 4, Interesting

China Closes 1,129 Web Sites The related departments have closed 1,278 illegal web sites and 114 sites ... how many sites were closed? Is it 1,129 as the headline reads, or 1,392 as the body states (1,278 + 114)

Re:1984? by Peden · 2004-12-22 23:16 · Score: 5, Interesting

Exchange that with "Homeland Security" and I think you will get the picture....

China is freer in some ways by ValourX · 2004-12-22 23:25 · Score: 1, Interesting

Take a look at this. It's probably one of the most spectacular displays of art I have ever seen -- a whole snow/ice village filled with sculptures.

I thought it was the neatest thing I had ever seen, but what struck me later was the sad fact that this treasure could never happen in the United States because no insurance company would cover it. People would sue left and right, and whomever put on that show would go bankrupt. Take a look at the people climbing the wall of ice. I don't know about you, but that looks like a hell of a lot of fun. I'll never know because that kind of "ride" can't ever happen in America because of the litigious assholes that sue people for a living.

I'm currently wrestling with the idea that China may actually be more free than the US. Not because of this single example, but for many reasons... no-knock warrants and other "anti-terrorism" measures that, to date, do not appear to have stopped any terrorists; RIAA/MPAA lawsuits against "john doe" defendants; software patent claims; anti-smoking laws; a whole bunch of shit. What can't you do in China? You can't speak out against the government (the more I hear angry, uninformed EU and US Bush protesters, the more I think I might actually enjoy that), you can't openly practice religion (what?? no Catholic priest child molesters, no Christian wackos and their 10 commandments plaques, no Muslim fundamentalists to kill me?), and you can't have websites that spread superstition. And this is bad... how?

-Jem

Re:China is freer in some ways by Burb · 2004-12-23 00:41 · Score: 2, Interesting

Freedom can, it's true, be just a superficial veneer. And it's true that the US can be a dreadful place if you are poor. As a middle-class European, I find it a great place to visit but would not necessarily jump at the chance to live there. Most of us don't question the beliefs instilled into us and childhood. To an outsider, it seems that the "saluting of the flag" business at the start of each school day serves to drum into children a belief that the US is a great place to be without providing much evidence of same. Anyway....
China's record on human rights would means that prison is a place where you go if you break the law OR if you a nuisance to the government. Try discussing the Tiananmen square "incident" Communist and post-communist societies like China have still a poor track record in this area. Look carefully and you will find secret laws and loopholes as bad, or worse, than the USA.

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Wonder if it works for something useful as well by QuasiRob · 2004-12-22 23:30 · Score: 2, Interesting

The article implies that concerned citizens can report websites that they consider to be illegal somewhere on the www.china.cn website. Might be worth flooding it with reports of all the spam sites operating in China, I just need to find the page to report it on.

--
If you try to fail and succeed, which have you done?

Wond'ring aloud... by Black+Parrot · 2004-12-22 23:33 · Score: 5, Interesting

> The related departments have closed 1,278 illegal web sites and 114 sites promoting gambling, superstitious activities and cult propaganda

Was Slashdot listed under "superstitious activities", or "cult propaganda"?

--
Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade

Perhaps WE are the backward ones by Anonymous Coward · 2004-12-22 23:44 · Score: 1, Interesting

China just opened up it's religious freedoms, actually.

As for censorship... even we censor certain things we find unpalatable: child porn, for instance. Perhaps the only difference is that other countries have more foresight to see the harm some publications do to society (after all, we're still recovering from the stupidity of tobacco advertising, images promoting eating disorders, etc.).

Just because it's different, doesn't mean it's wrong. At the very least, when another culture chooses to manage its society differently, we should give the other approach serious consideration, and choose the best, or a compromise between the advantages of both.

Re:It happens... by Anonymous Coward · 2004-12-22 23:44 · Score: 1, Interesting

re: Western countries

What's the process and for what reasons are sites closed in the West? Is there a fundamental difference between the two? Is there a significant quantitative difference? Is there recourse in those respective jurisdictions for the losing party?

Re:So how long...? by Kosi · 2004-12-22 23:57 · Score: 2, Interesting

When will these ISPs realise they're shooting themselves in the foot by forcing everyone to just outright block their networks?

As soon as really everyone blocks them.

We are on the path now by nurb432 · 2004-12-22 23:57 · Score: 1, Interesting

Just try to be a true radical online ( or in real life ) now, advocating for the next revolution.. Outlining details techniques and equipment manufacture..

See how long before you are whisked away for 'questioning' under the patriot act.

True, we are not totally screwed, yet.. But its coming. There no 'if'.

--
---- Booth was a patriot ----

Re:Whoa by evilmeow · 2004-12-23 00:04 · Score: 0, Interesting

Equal rights is not a decent idea. Neither on paper nor in reality. Some people are better, smarter, stronger, cuter, more brilliant than the others.

Any system that claims to provide people with equal rights is inherently flawed because it must decide where exactly those "equal" rights lay. Too much restrictions and the more enlightened part of the society will suffer; too much freedom and the least enlightened part of the society will rebel.

Under equal rights, no one can be perfectly happy with what they get - some will always feel they deserve more or that the other group does not deserves as much as this one.

In order to enforce equality, people must be made equal: not only in rights, but also in obligations, opportunities, abilities, skills and possibilities. I don't think I need to explain -what- kind of society exactly I'm describing here, as I am sure we've all read Orwell.

Re:no... Re:In Communist China by meringuoid · 2004-12-23 00:43 · Score: 3, Interesting

The US wont need God, a prosperous (capitalist) China would be a good thing financially for all concerned.

China already is capitalist. They say they're communist, but then North Korea say they're democratic...

--
Real Daleks don't climb stairs - they level the building.

Re:no... Re:In Communist China by Krach42 · 2004-12-23 01:08 · Score: 3, Interesting

Seriously, God help the United States when/if they ever realize this.

Actually, they'd ban this message, because it exhibits "superstition". I'd complain about this more, except it's all left up to definition of the Government.

For instance, China sees Christianity as subversive and superstition. So, they repress it.

In Germany, Scientology is seen as potentially subversive, and Germany taking a very strong stance against radical groups (go figure why... I mean, having been taken over by a radical faction that caused some of the most infamous crimes in the world? They wouldn't be paranoid about that anymore would they?) have repessed Sociology. There are a lot of Scientologists that gripe all the time that Germany is repressing them. Heck, it's for a good point, they repress *all* radical and reactionary groups.

But, back on topic, Christians around the world are upset at China, and gripe about it a lot. Although, I suppose one difference is that Germany doesn't imprision and execute people who preach Scientology, they just don't recognize it as a valid religion. (Thus, no tax benifits for donations, and they recieve none of the tax collected by the government for the Churches)

--

I am unamerican, and proud of it!

Democracy by jfonseca · 2004-12-23 01:55 · Score: 2, Interesting

Democracy is a system where the will of the majority should prevail.

The population of China is 10 times that of the USA. Does America really want a democracy in China? Imagine 2 billion people voting on the future of the USA(and the rest of us)...

Should the world stop pretending we like the idea of China guiding us? Or do most of us really want China a democracy?

--
Broken Hearts are for Assholes. - Frank Zappa

Re:Whoa by jfonseca · 2004-12-23 02:04 · Score: 2, Interesting

Hey I run a site about tourism in Cuba. I'm not politically driven. Just wanted to make that clear before I say what I have to say.

I've been to Cuba, the dictatorship sucks. But what sucks the most is the US trade embargo.

You know why the US can't open the embargo? Because communism worked in Cuba. They're 100% literate, full college level education for 100% of the adult population, people speak 5 languages in most places, no crime, no drug or organized crime.

The worst part is not being able to use USA plastic money, no american products, nothing american on the streets except 1950's cars.

If the US opened the embargo they'd have a communist paradise right under Florida. But the US doesn't seem to be greateous enough to admit that communism works in small communities.

In small numbers of people it is possible to share and live in community without social darwinism.

If you hate communism as it was in Soviet Union please know that I do too. But that's not the kind of communism I'm talking about because that's not communisn at all.

--
Broken Hearts are for Assholes. - Frank Zappa

Re:Yes that right by arkanes · 2004-12-23 03:54 · Score: 2, Interesting

There are a lot of people who confuse "No, just because you call it religion doesn't mean you can do anything you want" with religious oppression. I suppose from a certain point of view it's valid.

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