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Developing for Healthcare - .NET vs J2EE?
An anonymous reader asks: "Our small southern shop (an eleven man team) is about to commence development on some medical software geared for physician's offices and hospitals. Since we have never developed in this area before (our primary source of income comes from developing software for regional transportation offices of the government) we are at loss for the reigning technologies. The two technologies we are considering are J2EE and .NET. What are the opinions of the Slashdot crowd? Surely others have developed for the monstrous healthcare industry. Thanks!"
"My senior manager recommended using .NET. His argument is that most desktops he has seen in hospitals already run Windows, the development time will be cut down for this small to mid-size project, rich desktop clients are possible and there will be no application server costs involved. He also contends that .NET has more templates and abilities than J2EE (which is simply 'web targeted' in his opinion.
Half of my coworkers are with him and the other half have suggested using J2EE due to portability--we do not want to cut off any potential sources of income with an already dwindling future. Has GNU/Linux become widespread in the healthcare industry that we should consider developing for it too? What about Mac OS X server?
The last problem we have is winning over the IT staff hearts. They are the ones who ultimately give the go ahead to purchase the software. Java gets a bad rap for being slow, while Microsoft (and by extension) .NET has the shadow of being insecure. How can you possibly win?"
Half of my coworkers are with him and the other half have suggested using J2EE due to portability--we do not want to cut off any potential sources of income with an already dwindling future. Has GNU/Linux become widespread in the healthcare industry that we should consider developing for it too? What about Mac OS X server?
The last problem we have is winning over the IT staff hearts. They are the ones who ultimately give the go ahead to purchase the software. Java gets a bad rap for being slow, while Microsoft (and by extension) .NET has the shadow of being insecure. How can you possibly win?"
Because it simply doesn't matter.
Either your client dictates the technology or he doesn't. The "Healthcare Industry" is a vast array of mixed technologies, so it doesn't matter that way. And if they're buying your solution, they're buying your SOLUTION (which typically involves hardware), so THAT'S not important.
Go with what you know, go with what you're comfortable with. The success or failure of your project will have nothing to do with this decision, just in how you pull it off.
You can find all sorts of excuses to fail in either platform, and you can find just as many reasons to succeed. Pick one, don't second guess yourself, and stick to it.
Good Luck!
Your project, assuming there really is one, is doomed already.
You're asking an Internet message board for advice on a development platform? For software you're going to develop for an industry you have no experience with?
Right on, he's obviously lost without a clue if all he can do is trot out these lame stereotypes about the technology (duhh, .NET is insecure, J2EE is slow) as arguments without mentioning 1 word about the friggin requirements.
.NET isn't insecure and J2EE isn't slow... they're both insecure and slow if your development methods are insecure and inelegant. That's like saying "should I use a hammer or a screwdriver? A hammer can smash your thumb, whereas a screwdriver can gouge your eye out..."
Not to mention,
Sounds like you're asking the wrong question. What sorts of applications are you expecting to develop? Is it primarily database stuff? Are you developing for a small or large organization? (given that you have an IT staff, I'd expect large).
The only thing I can tell you for sure is that it's much easier to prove to an IT staff that something's not slow than that something's not insecure -- just show them Eclipse or anything else that...doesn't use Swing...which is the one really slow part of Java.
Really, though, these technologies are so similar that you should probably just pick one and go with it.
-Amalcon
MS has pretty much bet the bank on .Net, so even if windows loses market share I can't see it going anywhere anytime soon.
.Net at work (not out of choice) and I must say that I've been pleasently surprised. Ethical grandstanding aside, VS.Net is a very good IDE and C# is a particularly nice language. IMHO, easier to use than Java.
I use
I still agree with your cocclusion though - depending on the current skill level of the deveopers of course, I think Java is the better option. Both platforms are pretty similar, but with Java you get (better, complete) portability.
Ben
I work for a small company that does almost exactly what you're talking about, but so far only for hospitals. We have been in business for twenty years now and are having some of the same discussions. We currently run on win32, SCO Unix and AIX. In the past we have supported DOS, HP-UX, Solaris, Linux, AIX, UNIX and WIN32. Most of our customers are running our software (which is character mode btw) on Windows, but our largest, highest paying, and most stable customers are on AIX. If you want large customers you may want to consider something portable. They will usually have a RS6000 running Oracle in the hospital and have many Windows machines connected to it. You can get away with ignoring the RS6000, but that's the most stable machine in the building and IS would love to put it to use. From a support point of view, our customers on AIX and UNIX have the fewest problems and call us the least. There is nothing like trying to diagnose a label printing problem on a Windows network while working remotely over a modem or vpn connection.
Our debate is focused on whether we should support only one OS, probably Windows, or continue to support three. We'll be switching from UNIX to BSD at some point. (Personally I'd rather use Linux, but as a company we are familiar with UNIX and I'm told BSD is very similar.) The Unix variant side likes the security and reliability, the Windows side likes the graphical interface and the fact that Windows machines are everywhere. Plus we have both Windows and AIX customers that insist on their OS of choice. One thing that scares me about Windows is HIPAA, which makes the hospital liable if a patient's information is leaked. No court cases have been brought yet, but the thought of all that patient information on a Windows machine that could get hijacked is scary. A lot of these hospitals allow remote vpn connections and some of these networks get infected with a worm now and then. I wonder how long before someone decides to steal a patient database and bribe the hospital?
Most hospital systems, and even some Physician software will communicate with other systems using HL7 protocol over TCP/IP. This is the thing keeping us busiest now and a lot of times it's what the hospitals find most useful.
Just my two cents, but get used to having the customer tell you what they want and be prepared to do it, if at all possible. Flexibility is key, even more than taking advantage of the latest software trends. Support wise, they will need hand-holding, but they will be loyal customers if you respond to their problems quickly and kindly.
Hint: There are fairly few recent PCs in many hospitals. So unless you are targeting only wealthy private hospitals, assume the worst.
I use to work on a Unix based custom information system that over a decade old, and on a dozen Unix platforms, and they were developing a new Windows based system. It took multiple years to develop with the new product that was not good enough to replace their existing Unix solution, so hadn't sold a single copy of the new system.
Of course, to your secondary question, I don't know, but I think it is a classic case of horse before the cart though.
I agree totally. I used .NET at my previous Hedge Fund, and I use J2EE at the current one. It is night an day. Do you ever want to see a full stack trace (not just the couple of methods that the exception crossed before it was caught?), do you want to avoid .dll hell, do you want software that is efficient and has a collections API that wasn't designed by a 12 year old? If you answered "YES" to any of those questions, avoid .NET like plague.
.NET and C# is the best way to go if you want to use the Microsoft solution, but it has SEVERE CRIPPLING deficiencies. No coplete stack traces, nothing even approaching the scale or efficiency of something like JBoss, operator overloading that everyone loves to use (Ever see == throw a NullReferenceException?), the glories of COM (learn love Single Threaded Apartments), and half the examples are written in VB. I could just go on for days.
Since it's for a hospital, I assume that...
1) It's server like, pushing around data and integrating with other systems.
2) It really shouldn't crash.
3) You'll probably have lots of home computers, terminals, etc.. as users. It might be hard to track them all down to get stuff upgraded, especially considering that doctors may not always have the time for you to screw with their computers.
Seriously though, you just can't go wrong with J2EE. It'll run on anything, you can get pretty much any sort of appserver you want. You can get free appservers (JBoss), expensive ones (Websphere), or just embed your stuff in the database (Oracle) if that's what you think is appropriate. Java Web Start is a godsend for managing applications, and EJB will easily handle all your communications needs.
I just can't stress this enough,
This is, in fact the reason I quit my previous job. After trying to pound nails with a screwdriver for about a year (and getting roughly the progress you would expect from such an attempt), I threw in the towel and moved somewhere more sane. My life is much better now.
I started reading the whole thread of replies, and I couldn't find a better comment than the one made by the first poster: "Java isn't slow, .NET is not insecure".
.NET, C or C++, try to think wether you have solid facts and a really large experience to support it, or just your idea of how things are, read elsewhere from someone you don't really know.
.NET for the way it's architectured, but the freedom it gives you in development it takes away in vendor lockin. I initially saw Mono with lots of suspicion, mostly regarding its legal status and possible future implications. Then I spent some time reading about it and ended up dismissing those fears.
A programmer worth its weight knows that each language has its niche, and for specific tasks there are enviroments that work best. Then there are those who believe the hype and form a concept of things without actually ever having a 1st hand impression. It's a bit like racism, applied to programming languages, and it has a common origin: ignorance. I hope this doesn't sound ecletic, but it probably could inspire flames, since people usually have a hard time admitting their ignorance. But the next time you feel like writing something about Java,
Also, the belief that a programmer can only be good in one language is ridiculous. Give a good programmer a month and he'll excel in whatever you throw at him in a given language. And what he doesn't know, he'll learn. Give him a project and a couple months and he'll know things inside out. Maybe he'll have a preferred language, but who's to say that won't change over time? Evolving oneself as a programmer sometimes involves changing paradigms.
That said, I consider myself mainly a C programmer, then converted to C++. Nowadays I use C/C++ very little, for very specific things or for my private projects (involving OpenGL & C++). I've worked extensively with Java, Perl, PHP, Prolog and bit in a dozen others. I'm in the process of learning everything possible about Mono/C#, and I'm enjoying it.
I don't really enjoy Java mainly because I find developing in it to be a real pain. When you have learned over 20 different languages, you value freedom of expression, and Java doesn't give you that - it locks you into a syntax that is archaic and not very flexible. I don't like the Sun Java team making choices for me, like not allowing operator overloading and not having propper syntactic support for modern OO concepts like properties. Maybe one day they'll understand the language syntax itself isn't important - just convenient - and will follow the road of Parrot or MSIDL (argh).
I like
I have recently gone through a process I consider similar to yours, and I don't envy you. It's a though choice. I recently spent almost two weeks studying the whole issue, experimenting with RAD systems for Java, Delphi, C++ and C#. In the end, I ended up adopting a solution based on LAMP2 (Linux, Apache2, PostgreSQL, Mono) - which should not be confused with LAMP (Linux, Apache, Mysql, PHP). Here's the reasons and thoughts:
- We find C# to be quite more expressive as a language. Mono is in a state good enough for us to use it, which satisfies our needs for platform independance.
- Java is not modern enough syntactically. It wasn't designed for some of the things it's used for nowadays, namedly GUIs, and that shows. Nowadays, having to write 'a.setLabel( a.getLabel() + "..." )' instead of 'a.label += "..."' looks stupid, and just shows what happens when people make decisions on your behalf based on their beliefs: on this I agree with Anders Hejlsberg.
- We prefer open source solutions whenever possible. We have many people with skills on PostgreSQL and its internals (we've had to extend it before).
- Apache is rock solid.
- Global input from the rest of the team.
There were, of course, lots of small decisions related t
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