Windows Media Center Edition vs. The World

sam_christ writes "An article in today's Investor's Business Daily (Google cache) and an article by TV industry pundit/predictions-huckster Philip Swann say the same thing: that Microsoft's Media Center Edition will be a big flop in 2005. Meanwhile, from what I can tell much more powerful alternatives to Microsoft's MCE bloatware are thriving: commercial products like Snapstream (see their 6-tuner Medusa PVR built for about $1200), Showshifter and open-source freeware like Mediaportal and MythTV. From what I've read about Microsoft MCE and all of its DRM and content restrictions, I have to agree with both of these articles."

Comments

cable co

[BoldAC]

The true monopoly here is the cable and satellite companies.

They can package their services and rent them out cheaper than any of us can buy the hardware.

A good MPEG 2 capture card costs $150. Hard drive/CPU/video output is at least $200.

Heck, I can get PVR service for $8 a month.

As much as I would rather do-it-myself... it's hard to beat a rock-stable $8/month service.

Re:cable co

[Davak]

Yeah, I agree.

I finally went with the WinTV-PVR-350 for $200 dollars. It does MPEG 2 in AND out. I had an old pent 600 already...

The reason I agree with you is that the cable company's system is so integrated that I think my wife would be able to control it better. I may like the ability to rip everything to DVD... but she just wants to the ability to rip Desperate Housewives easily.

Re:cable co

[JWW]

DRM in the fantasy world you've laid out here wouldn't be too bad. But, theres only one problem. The networks will NEVER EVER DO THIS!!! Do you really think that the same networks that work so hard on their timeslots and schedules are interested in using DRM to give you on demand viewing? No their interest in DRM is to prevent you from ever recording the program so that your only choice if you want to watch it is when they say and how they say. They do not want customers to be happy and get what they want, they want control.

Look at the recording industry, there are dozens of things I can think of where they could really benefit from better distribution of electronic media, and they have done none of those things. Its all control, don't let them sucker you into DRM, with their empty promises of on-demand.

Re:cable co

[JWW]

The only problem with that is that with pay per view rates being what they are, the networks would want to charge $1 to $2 per episode. Oh and with the do not copy bit being mandated by the FCC they could prohibit you from recording the program forcing you to pay the money in order to time shift the program.

So in essence this simple use of DRM to give "more options to the consumer" would just basically in essence be the removal of all our fair use rights laid out decades ago when VCRs were deamed leagal by the courts.

There is no reasonable DRM..... It will all be used to wield absolute control over the consumer. BTW this flies directly in the face of a capitalist economy where consumer demand is supposed to be a controlling factor. There is no consumer demand that we be restricted by DRM, No one wants it!

So, let me get this straight

[daveschroeder]

Windows XP Media Center Edition, a specific media center product, is a flop, and the articles you link to - which you say you agree with - talk generically about consumers not thinking about PCs in the living room or of computers as entertainment devices, but you think other commercial media center products - which are embodied by the idea of PCs in the living room or of computers as entertainment devices - are "thriving"? Especially when the articles - which you agree with - say that the problem with media centers is that, since they're a computer - a whole other computer, mind you - they're more complex, and normal[1] consumers will never even consider them as an entertainment center component?

Is there a disconnect here?

Actually, aside from whether or not it will be a commercial failure, Windows XP Media Center Edition 2005 actually works famously (have you ever tried it?), MUCH better than previous iterations of the product, and it supports multiple tuners (i.e., >2), lets you archive your recordings to CD or DVD, can support transmitting its content to any other PC, media center extender, or Xbox, etc. - not to mention that for a NORMAL person, it's essentially an integral part of Windows, gets updated along with the OS, and represents a major product from the majority platform, etc.

And, by the way, I absolutely loathe Microsoft and its business practices over the years in general, but let's at least be realistic here: you can't "agree" with those articles, especially Swann's, and then say that other media centers are "thriving".

[1] "Normal" here means, like, actually a normal person. Not slashdot readers. Not engadget readers. And frankly, not even savvy computer users.

Re:So, let me get this straight

[Megaweapon]

In other words, random pundit predicts future slow sales of a MS product while competitors will thrive... AND SLASHDOT IS THERE! It's a good thing someone agrees with those articles, I wouldn't know how to react!

Re:So, let me get this straight

[99BottlesOfBeerInMyF]

it ...lets you archive your recordings to CD or DVD, can support transmitting its content to any other PC, media center extender, or Xbox, etc.

It lets you archive to CD or DVD, but does it let you archive in a format everything can read, or only devices that pay a Windows tax? It can stream to other devices, but can it stream to a Linux box?

WMCE is all about lock in as usual. If consumers had a clue, they would not go near it with a 10-foot pole. My PVR archives to DVD or CD too, except it does so in the standard DVD or VCD formats so that any DVD player can play them. That means the portable on you use to keep you kid quiet, the one in the family van, the one at the neighbor's house, the one at the baby sitter's, the one that I will buy 5 years from now, etc.

I have doubt as to whether or not the average soccer mom will be able to figure this out before a purchase, and people are very defensive about their large purchases, so I imagine a lot of people will be buying WMCE machines in the future unless there is a better, mainstream option. Tivo is almost there, but there recent actions to prevent the archiving of some shows, has really put me off of recommending them. Where is the startup with the $400 MythTV-based solution?

Define "flop"?

[StrawberryFrog]

Microsoft v1.0 products don't always have to make money. They are often aimed at gaining market share, leveraging related product areas where Microsoft is already dominant, learning what the customers really want, and generally harassing the competition as a prelude to crushing them with a version 2 or 3 product.

Real alternatives?

[jdreed1024]

Meanwhile, from what I can tell much more powerful alternatives to Microsoft's MCE bloatware are thriving: commercial products like Snapstream (see their 6-tuner Medusa PVR built for about $1200), Showshifter and open-source freeware like Mediaportal and MythTV.

First of all, MythTV and Mediaportal are not competitors. Not yet. For them to be true competitors, they need to just work out of the box. Don't get me wrong, they're great products, but they're not true competitors in the average consumer market, just like Gentoo Linux is not a competitor with Windows XP.

And the other two products mentioned are not real competitors. If you hate "Microsoft bloatware", these are not the products for you. From the Snapstream Beyond TV System Requirements page:

• Microsoft Windows XP Home, XP Professional or 2000
• DirectX 9.0 or greater

From the Showshifter System Requirements page:

• Windows 98, ME, 2000 or XP
• DirectX 9.0 Runtime or later
• Windows Media Player 7.1 or later

It doesn't get much more Microsoft-centric than that.

If Media Center Edition fails, it will be because of price and competition from the cable companies, not because of competing software. Users who buy media center PCs will stick with Windows Media CEnter Edition, because that's what it'll come with. Just like people stick with XP Home, because that's what came on their computers.

Consumers want something that just works. Hobbyists, enthusiasts, and power users may be interested in picking their own TV tuner card, and setting up MythTV, but they do not form a large percentage of the market. You have people now who have Tivos because they "just work". Tivo made something that looks like a VCR and has a remote, and that (combined with cable and satellite companies giving them away for free) more than anything is what will kill windows MCE.

From what I've read about Microsoft MCE and all of its DRM and content restrictions, I have to agree with both of these articles.

The average consumer (again, they're the ones who influence the market, not us) doesn't care about DRM, yet. They can play their CDs in the car or on their stereo - it doesn't matter if they can't rip them to MP3.

However, ironically, MCE may be the thing that wakes up Joe Consumer to the dangers of DRM. If this doesn't, the broadcast flag of HDTV might. Currently, if Joe Consumer misses a show, he can stick a tape in the VCR. And even tape the game, despite the NFL telling him not to. When he fires up his Media Center PC, and hits record, and gets a message saying "You are not allowed to do this", there's going to be a huge backlash. But we're not there yet.

Re:Real alternatives?

[WhiplashII]

The real problem is that while it may work out of the box, within months it will fail.

We all have had to "repair" computers so infected with spyware that they are practically unusable. Now someone's PVR is going to do that! The only people that can use this long term are the technical people that can keep the thing working.

I just don't think people want a PVR that must be reinstalled every few months.

Re:Guess what?

[Znork]

The average consumer does care about DRM. They just dont recognize it.

When they 'care about DRM' they're irritated because their VCR recordings look bad off (macrovision) satellite signals. They think their VCR is broken. Or they cant play a dvd (of the wrong region) in their computer. They think their dvd is broken. Or they think a CD that wont play is broken. Etc. For the average consumer, things not working equals broken.

Once you explain to them that their equipment is deliberately screwing with them they tend to get very very angry, and they actually do care. They just dont usually have the time and tenacity to figure out what's wrong with their electronics. They eat the loss instead, or yell a bit at some poor clerk who doesnt understand what's wrong either.

Re:Wrong - people do not accept arbitrary change

[Gonarat]

Actually, Grandpa will get pissed, and not buy any more PPV events. I've known enough people (both older and my age) that have the opinion, if this doesn't work they way it is "supposed to" (in this case, Grandpa has recorded off of the cable since he had a VCR), and "they" won't fix it, then "they" won't get any more business from that person.