EFF Reviews HDTV PVR Solution for Mac

enrico_suave points out this "PVRBlog post about EFF's Review of Elgato's EyeTV 500, an HDTV solution for the Mac. Well, a very speedy dual-processor G5 Mac, apparently. The Electronic Frontier Foundation has been doing a lot of important work defending our online and digital rights including opposing the dreaded FCC mandated broadcast flag (cue boos and hisses) Elgato and Plextor also have a Standard Definition homebrew PVR solution with an EyeTV and ConvertX PVR bundle (Wired review)." (See also this earlier review from a Slashdot reader.)

Comments

RTFA?

[DreadPiratePizz]

I've got no problem with reading ONE article, but this is ridiculous!

Am I missing something here?

[thammoud]

If you intend to have your Mac handle all of your DTV duties--watching live TV, recording, and playing back recorded shows--you'll probably want a dual-G5 PowerMac

On Monday, comcast will install a $10 a month PVR with dual tuner and one that can record 15 hours of HDTV and 60 of regular TV. Why should I invest in a dual G5 power mac and an additional $350 to basically get the same functionality.

Re:Am I missing something here?

[PornMaster]

Can you archive HDTV broadcasts, though? 15 hours isn't much in the whole scheme of things.

Re:Am I missing something here?

[BJH]

Because, uh... you already own a Mac?

Come on, I'm sure whoever wrote the article wasn't expecting you to immediately run out and plunk down a couple of thousand dollars for a Mac just to use this peripheral.

Re:Am I missing something here?

[Anonymous Coward]

Possible things you're missing:
1. If you get Comcast's PVR, Comcast controls your PVR and you do what they tell you.
2. Comcast isn't worldwide, last time I checked.
3. Ridiculously excessive, far more expensive hardware is way cooler.
4. I could hook up a RAID array and record a metric gazillion hours of HDTV! What now, Mr. 15 hours?
5. Comcast is the devil and they will kill your dog. If you don't have a dog, they will give you one for the express purpose of killing it.
6. Because I say so! Buy this! Do it! Do it now!
7. ???
8. Profit!!!!

mission option: the mac supports video editing to insert sex with a mare into all your favorite shows.

Re:Am I missing something here?

[Jeremy Erwin]

Presumably, because Comcast will kowtow to the major media companies and start respecting the "broadcast flag." The hope is that this device will remain blessedly versatile after July of this year.

However, suppose that some major media properties persuade Apple to rewrite their firewire drivers, necessitating a a similar driver update from ElGato. The question then becomes: Is ElGato legally required to cripple its software in the course of this update? Could one reinstate compatibility with the old, pre broadcast flag driver by rewriting portions of the Darwin source?

Perhaps the best solution would be to build a Linux PVR server, possibly adding on a suitable mac client, a la vlc. After all, Linus Torvalds doesn't own an online media shop.

iTele

[ed 'g3']

iTele [for os x] is free, works with generic digital tv tuner cards and supports the high definition picture for those regions where it is available, i.e. everywhere except the uk.

http://www.defyne.org/dvb/

Comments

[MBCook]

OK, interesting gadget. I just have a few questions.

Why do you need such a great CPU? The article says it's because the hidef MPEG2 content is decoded in software. Huh? I though graphics cards started doing MPEG2 assist and later complete MPEG2 decoding years ago? It that feature just not in the drivers, or was it dropped due to cost and faster CPUs? Guess you should budget in some more for an MPEG2 decoder card, but they are not easy to find anymore (at least not as easy as they were), they tend to require passthrough (I've never seen pass-through DVI, and would it handle dual link for 30" screens?), etc. Seems like a big problem.

Only an antenna? If this thing can record HD and SD content (as long as it's digital), why not give it an HDMI connector so I could record off equiptment that has HDMI out? Or give it a DVI in for recording off that? Just an antenna seems.... measly.

Interesting though. The CPU problem is not as bad as it sounds considering how many people would currently want to use their computer to timeshift full glory HD content. If you have the TV and such for that and you can afford this box, you can probably afford a computer to play the file (or at least an MEPG2 decoder card).

Re:Comments

[Wesley Felter]

why not give it an HDMI connector so I could record off equiptment that has HDMI out?

And what is your Mac going to do with a >100MB/s uncompressed video stream? Oh, and HDMI is often encrypted.

Dual G5 requirement should be improved

[tji]

A dual G5 requirement for smooth HDTV playback is a big problem. You should be able to easily do this with a midrange G4 system.

The problem is that Apple has not opened the API for the MPEG2 acceleration available in most of the video chips in Macs. ( The equivalent of DxVA in Windows, or XvMC in XFree86 ). In the x86 world, this takes the CPU requirement down from ~ 2.4GHz P4 to ~ 800MHz P3.

Apple's DVD player uses the MPEG2 acceleration, but they don't allow others to use it. So, we're stuck with extremely high CPU requirements of dec oding those hi-res HDTV files.

Re:Dual G5 requirement should be improved

[steve_bryan]

"Actually, No.. DxVA is what makes the CPU requirements reasonable, even with the software decode products. The 2.4GHz -> 800MHz was specifically addressing DxVA offload of HDTV MPEG2 decode."

I know they claim that. What I was reporting is that it is a lie. I had a 700 MHz Athlon which was originally claimed to be sufficient for the Fusion I card (using DxVA) and it was not. I upgraded to a 1500 Athlon and finally the 2400+ which is sufficient for software decoding with DvXA assist. Without DxVA you get a more stable picture but it has to throw out every other scan line. I actually prefer that picture generally because it doesn't have the artifacts that you get with DxVA.

If someone has an older box with a sub 1 GHz processor he will need to get a MyHD card to get good results. I wouldn't recommend Fusion cards to anyone with less than a 2 GHz processor. I am using the computer monitor. Maybe the picture from the DVI port gives better results with less CPU.

It has been reported elsewhere in the comments that dual 1 GHz G4 Mac will produce good results with EyeTV 500. If that is the case then the results are not so starkly different. I'm sure the software is less finicky because I have and use EyeTV (I just use it with the EyeTV USB but it is the same software). It doesn't restart the Mac just because I commit the mistake of running VLC or some other video program. In fact on the Mac I have the option of having multiple programs running at the same time without causing a crash.

Re:The G% is a slow processor

[akac]

Have the P4 or AMD do it in software and it'll take you to a dual or very powerful single processor.

THe only reason (which you would have found out if you read the article) it requires a Dual G5 for SMOOTH playback is because Apple decided to be stupid and keeps the MPEG2 hardware playback API private so that they have to do the decoding in software and not hardware like a normal Intel based system can.

Its not a hardware issue at all, but a simple OS design issue. One of the very few places where OS X actually fails compared to Linux or Windows.

Re:Will it be able to connect to iHome?

[node 3]

No, because the iHome does not exist (well, except as a plastic and cardboard hoax mock-up).

Something like it may debut at the Keynote next week though.

No G5 needed now...

[AaronD12]

Elgato Systems updated their software and it only requires a reasonably fast G4 system. My EyeTV 500 works perfectly on my Powerbook G4 1.25GHz laptop at full screen.

-Aaron-

MythTV on OSX - Soon

[GameGod0]

I'd just like to throw in that over the past few months there have been TONS of patches added to MythTV that add OSX compatibility.
I'm not sure how close Myth is to working completely on OSX, but I don't doubt that once it's working on OSX, it will be a formidable entry into the world of PVR software for this operating system.