Slashdot Mirror
Advice for Returning to School After Long Break?
arohann asks: "A few months ago, I quit my secure, well-paying (but boring) job as a software engineer in India and have been applying to graduate schools in the US, Canada and the UK. My aim is to get back to computer engineering studies (my undergrad major) as a grad student. However, after a 5 year break from academics I'm not sure about my decision and could do with some advice from Slashdot users."
"Here are some of the things that I'd like to know:
1) Typically, how do graduate admissions officials view work experience? Note that I haven't been working as a Computer Engineer but as a Software Engineer.
2) What are the differences between graduate studies at the Masters level in the US, Canada and the UK? I already know a bit from what is available on the websites, so I'm looking for some deeper insights.
3) I'd like to hear from people who've done this, i.e. quit their jobs and gone back to get a higher engineering degree. What problems did you face and what advice do you have?
4) People who've studied in the UK at the MSc, MPhil, MEngg level - how did you fund your education? Were you able to get things like teaching or research assistantships and how much of your costs did these cover?"
1) Typically, how do graduate admissions officials view work experience? Note that I haven't been working as a Computer Engineer but as a Software Engineer.
2) What are the differences between graduate studies at the Masters level in the US, Canada and the UK? I already know a bit from what is available on the websites, so I'm looking for some deeper insights.
3) I'd like to hear from people who've done this, i.e. quit their jobs and gone back to get a higher engineering degree. What problems did you face and what advice do you have?
4) People who've studied in the UK at the MSc, MPhil, MEngg level - how did you fund your education? Were you able to get things like teaching or research assistantships and how much of your costs did these cover?"
Usually in fields such as electrical engineering, students are encouraged to go out and get 2-5 years work experience before returning to school for a masters or phd. Your work experience is not a liability at all - it is an asset to understand how things are really done in the world. You also know what work is really like, so the courseload at a regular university should be bearable. Personally, I think that disciplines that do not encourage people to spend a few years in the work environment before getting post graduate degrees are going to produce a lot of pie in the sky thinkers who can't cut it in real life.
I submitted this story last night, and it didn't get posted.
I did this in 2001. I took a BS from a top US engineering school in a combination of CS/Psychology in the early 90s, worked for 9 years, started two companies, made some money, but found myself especially towards the end of the boom getting too far away from what I found interesting.
So I went back for CS, and am currently in the process of completing an MS thesis, which should also carry me into a PhD.
It's been a *great* experience, but not without hiccups...
1) Typically, how do graduate admissions officials view work experience? Note that I haven't been working as a Computer Engineer but as a Software Engineer.
The better (top 40-50 in the US) graduate schools exist primarily to create more professors. So your re-entry to the graduate community will be evaluated in academic terms. Despite the greater integration of the commercial and academic worlds through the Internet, academia still is an ivory tower that operates according to its own rules.
Meaning: the better schools generally don't consider work experience relevant *at all*. Unless you were doing *research* or research-type work- had papers or other relevant public/peer reviewed published materials to show for your time- work experience is irrelevant. In fact, it's unhelpful, because you spent productive years *not* doing research.
Don't even bother to submit recommendations from employers, unless those employers themselves have recognized academic credentials (meaning, a professorship. PhDs don't count.).
Put another way, I found that schools considered my *undergraduate* academic performance- from *10 years* prior- to be more relevant in their evaluations than *any* of the innovative, creative professional work I had done since.
This is startling and dismaying, but you'll get over it.
2) What are the differences between graduate studies at the Masters level in the US, Canada and the UK? I already know a bit from what is available on the websites, so I'm looking for some deeper insights.
I can't speak for Canada or the UK, but MS work in the US is viewed in academic circles as *professional*, almost like a trade school. It is of course possible to do research as an MS student, but at most schools there is a class distinction between MS and PhD students that limits access to professors or funding or other academic resources. Most schools expect MS students to *have* another job, while for PhD students, getting a PhD *is* their job.
3) I'd like to hear from people who've done this, i.e. quit their jobs and gone back to get a higher engineering degree. What problems did you face and what advice do you have?
It's been a tremendously *positive* experience for me. However, it was a challenge adjusting after not being in an academic environment for 10 years.
The biggest adjustment for me, frankly, was ego. I came in as an MS student, so it was a challenge coming in at the bottom of the academic food chain, after being at the top in the professional world for the last several years. But humility is a virtue, so I consider this to be a great adjustment to have to go through.
The second biggest adjustment was working/learning style. In academia, especially in research, you get points for completeness and correctness, while in the professional world, you get points for efficiency.
The strategies you learn and the risks you take in the professional world to be efficient, to get quickly to market, to employ FUD effectively to thwart your competitors and deal with the crazy needs of clients/customers- these are the wrong strategies and behaviors in the academic world.
There of course is hand-waving and FUD and all that in academia, and a strong competitive dynamic (getting papers into conferences, etc)- but the way the game is played, as I found it at least, is completely different.
4) People who've studied in the UK at the MSc, MPhil, MEngg level - how did you fund your education? Were you able to get things like teaching or research assis
Damn. Boy does that ever sound familiar. I had 3 scholarships and I lost all of them too. I did horribly. I didn't know how to study. I didn't really get the importance of higher education. All I wanted to do was work at a campus job I liked (they really needed me which was a big plus for me) and play in the marching band. IIRC my GPA started with a decimal point. Yeah, I did a horrible job. I drug it out for 2.5 years though instead of only 3 semesters. Then I went into the work force. I just wasn't ready for college at that time either, no matter how I tested before entering it.
I've been planning on going back for a number of years now. First I needed to get out of debt and get some savings to live on for my first year or so (no outside work temptations to drag me away from my studies). I had just gotten out of debt when my employer laid me off. That was actually a good opportunity to go back to school. Unfortunately other things intervened. First I wrecked my motorcycle. That laid me up for a little while thanks to my back. Then my parents started building a new house. They needed my help badly. We had to get various stages completed so that the log home builder could come out and put up the house. Since then we've been working on adding the garage, wiring, plumbing, etc... I've been working on their house in various stages now for almost two years. Unfortunately the construction loan is up in March and the house HAS to be finished by then. That means I won't make it back to school this semester either. I will make it back to school I'm sure. Things just have to slow down a bit first.
My biggest concerns seem to be echoed by everyone here. I used to be excellent in math. I went to numerous competitions and I have dozens and dozens of medals for my efforts (minimal efforts, not to brag; I had a really good teacher set me on the right path). Unfortunately I can't remember jack now. I used to be able to do complex crap in my head. Now I can't even recall where to start. It's a good day when I can manage to add and subtract correctly. That's a big concern for me. I never was good at studying because in HS I never needed to. All I had to do was simply listen to the teacher or read the assigned reading in the book and I could pass any test they threw at me. I could whip out a 2-page book report on a book I'd never read in 5 minutes. I could whip out a lengthy research paper over night. Then I got to college and found out I couldn't do that anymore. I had to study to get by. Given all that I knew and my ability to learn, I just didn't know how to study. My failure was readily apparent early on. Ever take a 5 minute Chemistry final? No, I wasn't that good. It took 5 minutes to fill in all the bubbles as fast as I could. That should have been an indicator.
Well, enough of my ramblings. Best of luck on your degree. Hopefully I can get mine in the near future too.
I took an 18 year break, then went back and got my BSEE. It was the best career decision I ever made. I didn't go to one of the "good" schools, but I did keep a high GPA, got a good internship and when I graduated, a job was waiting for me paying substantially more than first year engineering jobs.
Being 40 years old helped, I'm sure. I can most definitely say that I'm not the same person that I was 20 years ago. Which is a good thing, because I'd probably be dead if I'd kept it up.
Interestingly, though, when I started talking about getting an MSEE, the company where I work (with about 20,000 employees) offered to pay for it, but pointed out that it wouldn't be particularly beneficial in terms of promotions or pay increases. Where I'm at, I guess, the degree gets you in the door, then it's experience from there.
-h-