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US Ranking for Broadband Falls

Ant writes "Broadband Reports mentions Declan McCullagh's CNET editorial where he believes everything is a-ok in the world of broadband, and people concerned with falling global rankings are over-reacting. 'FCC figures released last month show that 94.3 percent of U.S. ZIP codes have high-speed lines available to them,' he writes; though as we've pointed out, the FCC considers one home in a zip code with broadband to mean that entire zip code is 'serviced.'"

25 of 298 comments (clear)

  1. It's all percentage versus real numbers by prostoalex · · Score: 5, Insightful

    This is nothing to fret about. The United States is losing to the countries with high population density and smaller footprint, where wiring a city of size of Seoul or Amsterdam suddenly wires up 10-15% of country's population. If you take California or New York City and treat them as a separate country, the rate of broadband access would be quite competitive with the others. US of A is just a pretty big country to have anything decent in terms of % numbers.

    Note, however, that on the same page it says US is leading the world in the total number of broadband connections with 31.7 million cable/DSL/other lines. The nearest competitor - China - only has 22.2 million broadband hook-ups.

    1. Re:It's all percentage versus real numbers by Rakishi · · Score: 3, Insightful

      You need to keep something in mind about Japan: they are only ahead now because they started late. They didn't have to deal with incremental technologies and just put in the newest best thing. The US however invested heavily in slower broadband technologies so that they had more broadband for longer. As such any differences between Japan and the US are bound to even out soon as the US upgrades its internet access (fiber for example) and as Japan starts to no longer have the "best" technology.

    2. Re:It's all percentage versus real numbers by ivan256 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      This is nothing to fret about. ... US of A is just a pretty big country to have anything decent in terms of % numbers.

      Since when does something being hard give you an excuse to do a crappy job at it?

      Plus, as others have pointed out in this thread, they percentage of Americans how live in Urban areas is about the same as that of Canada, yet the Canadians managed the #3 spot... Not only that, but in Seoul, people have tens of megabits of throughut. I don't know about you, but I live in a fairly urban part of the US, and I'm stuck with the same 768k upstream I had back in '96. It costs me $100 too. It's time we start asking the companies that we give publically granted monopolies to why they should be allowed to have such insane profit margins when they're not keeping us on the cutting edge of technology. They have the funds to build with, and they have that money because we give it to them. Either they should choose to do something with the monopolies the public has so gratiously granted them, or we should take them away and give them to companies that will.

  2. It's not a right by Dancin_Santa · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I've been all over the U.S. and can understand the reluctance of the phone companies to provide service to some areas. There just isn't enough population in some areas to seriously consider putting in the wires to bring high speed internet to these areas.

    Most of the U.S. is farmland. Very little of it is what you call "Blue States". And as anyone who studies these things can tell you, farmland doesn't have the population density of even relatively small cities. So you wonder why you don't get broadband out in the sticks? It's because you don't have enough neighbors.

    It's one of the prices you pay for peace and quiet.

    1. Re:It's not a right by remahl · · Score: 4, Insightful

      If it isn't a right, then it at least should be.

      Parts of Sweden are very sparsely populated, and yet broadband access is widely available. The government decided a few years ago that Internet access was important and that appropriate funding should be provided to remote municipalities with low population densities. Since private companies did not find it attractive to build high-speed connections to remote places, the government and municipalities agreed to cover part of the cost.

      Access to communications _should_ be a human right, just like the right to education (article 26, Universal Declaration of Human Rights). Private enterprise cannot be trusted or expected to cover human rights -- infrastructure in particular should be provided by public organisations.

    2. Re:It's not a right by YrWrstNtmr · · Score: 2, Insightful
      If it isn't a right, then it at least should be.

      Bah. Pretty much every home has an internet pipe. The phone line. Where is the compelling need for govt mandated (and taxpayer funded) broadband?

      Since private companies did not find it attractive to build high-speed connections to remote places, the government and municipalities agreed to cover part of the cost.

      Unless this is a different planet, the Swedish government makes just as much money as every other government. Exactly zero. They get it from taxes. So the only way for the 'government to cover the cost' is to have the taxpayers pay for it. Citizens in the US have not come to the point of a) requirng the government to fund this, and b) providing those funds.

      Access to communications _should_ be a human right,

      This is just faster access to communication(Internet), not the complete lack of it.
      If the argument was 'most homes in the US have zero access to the Internet', I'd look at this differently. But that is not the case.

    3. Re:It's not a right by tsotha · · Score: 2, Insightful
      If it isn't a right, then it at least should be

      Why? Dialup is available throughout the entire country. While it's more convenient to surf the web at broadband speeds, this isn't a food/shelter issue.

      The reality is you choose where you want to live in the US if you're a citizen. If you live somewhere without broadband, and it's important to you, then move. There are lots of reasons to live in "the country" - infrastructure isn't one of them.

      If broadband is a right for country people, when do I get my cheap land in the San Francisco bay area. Shouldn't that be a right too? How about crystal-clear air and "peace and quiet"?

      Bah.

  3. USA #1 by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Just because it's easier for Seoul to get its citizens on broadband doesn't make it any less a competitive threat. The US, with its huge coastlines, competes easily with landlocked countries like those throughout central Europe, central Asia, and central Africa, but that competitive advantage means we rule the seas. S. Korea and the Netherlands are disproportionately represented on the broadband Net per capita, which is how individuals experience the status. Don't we want to keep American predominance on the Net, by using our advantages in brains, capital and momentum to overcome momentary disadvantages in geography?

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    1. Re:USA #1 by Dun+Malg · · Score: 4, Insightful
      Just because it's easier for Seoul to get its citizens on broadband doesn't make it any less a competitive threat.

      I'm not sure getting broadband to every Bubba in the woods, Jebediah on his farm, and Kaczynski in his mountain shack is relevant to competition. The fact that the US has vast swathes of nearly empty countryside means that they'll have a greater percentage of "disconnected" areas. The fact that there's no great competitive loss as a result is overlooked. A proper comparison would be per-capita broadband connections sub-divided into categories based on population density.

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    2. Re:USA #1 by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I just came from a City Council hearing in Brooklyn. People testified how the remaining industrial areas in Red Hook and the Navy Yard, full of entrepreneurs and 20th Century infrastructure in downtown Brooklyn, can't get broadband (DSL, cablemodem, fiber) because Verizon's monopoly keeps them lazily fat on just the lowhanging fruit elsewhere in NYC. They have made the investments themselves, forgoing economies of scale in pulling their own fiber, and bringing years of political pressure to bear in producing a single fiber for 4,000 small businesses to finally buy T1s. As a result, all those communities are now customers for broadband services, able to afford the bills after the resulting economic growth. The surrounding residential communities will see even bigger effects years later, as children raised there now can grow up with broadband experience that increases their earning power (and takes them to richer neighborhoods without those problems).

      Universal service gaps don't refer just to "dead weight". The threshold for ROI by monopoly telcos is too high to serve even many urban neighborhoods with otherwise very high productivity and consumer potential. None of the excuses about density or infrastructure are the truth, as belied by the experience in NYC. If it's true here, the media capital of the world, it's certainly true in other aggregated communities which could potentially rival it if they were properly connected.

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    3. Re:USA #1 by RzUpAnmsCwrds · · Score: 2, Insightful

      "2.) American predominance? Don't look now, but English will be surpassed as the most widely used language on the net in less than two years - or sooner."

      By what? According to whose statistics? The #2 language used by Google users is German, and it's not going to be overtaking English anytime soon.

      "I lived in Seoul for the last 4 years, and enjoyed it when they upgraded me from ADSL to VDSL, no charge, just to free up space in the lower speed catagories."

      You want to know why that doesn't happen in the US?

      No one knows what the hell VDSL is. No one knows what bandwidth is. Americans pride themselves in being poorly informed. We spend $50 on T-Shirts. We spend $20,000 on POS GM vehicles and don't demand better quality.

      That's the difference. Americans want something that is "good enough". That's why you're never going to see the same kind of high-tech gadgets here that you see in Asia. There's simply no market for them.

      The technology is there. DOCSIS 2.0 is 45mbit. We could have that bandwidth *tomorrow* if the cable company would reflash our modems. Why don't we? Because customers don't demand more bandwidth. They don't demand more because 3mbps is fast enough for most activities. Most people aren't downloading ISOs on a regular basis. Most people aren't downloading movies, despite what the MPAA would have you believe.

      That's why dial-up is so popular. Millions of people see little reason to switch to broadband. Hell, if we can't get them to switch away from AOL, what makes you think that they would switch to broadband.

      Right now, the US is at a critical stage: complacency. We're fat, dumb, and happy. We want to keep it that way, so we don't rock the boat. We resist change.

      Unfortunately, that will be our downfall.

    4. Re:USA #1 by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Predominance isn't "king"; there is not "king of the Internet", except maybe Kibo. If eBay doesn't change their page to Chinese, Chinese people won't buy the most junk off eBay. With 1-2B Chinese people, they only have to be able to buy 15% the junk Americans do, per capita, to get eBay to change. More likely, though, is a Chinese auction site that eclipses eBay's transactions and profit - unless eBay changes.

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  4. Re:Complete BS by javaxman · · Score: 1, Insightful
    I cant believe for a minute that that many zip codes are covered.. and yes one in that zip counts the entire zip.

    Typical FCC lawyerspeak bullshit. Not unlike the FCC's fiction of how many households can get over-the-air DTV.

    And what about Bush fixing the digital divide?

    Yup. He'll take care of that, just like he's taken care of the environment, education, security and the economy...

  5. Re:"Companies relucant to run business at a loss" by JustOK · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Heaven forbid they use some of their "profits" from high density areas

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  6. Re:Sure, but the percentage difference is staggeri by srw · · Score: 2, Insightful

    C'mon... I live in Saskabush and I had 1.5Mbit broadband in early 1996! Yes, there is a high density in (what we here call) eastern Canada, but sparsely populated Saskatchewan also has great coverage of broadband. For example: The town of Kenaston (pop. less than 300, 50 miles from major center) has broadband. [Flamebait]We have our socialist government and crown corporations to thank for it.[/Flamebait]

  7. Shallow article by El+Cabri · · Score: 2, Insightful

    This article is just an indeological blurb recycling for the millionth time Americans' usual excuse for their telecom backwardness -- their land mass -- and adding some free-markedroid mantra to boot (the part about "wacky govt regulations").

    About govt regulations : European countries _regulate_ their former monopoly telcos into offering to host their competitors' routers into their own last-mile hubs for _regulated_ fees, allowing customers to subscribe directly to a competitor's DSL offering bypassing the telco completely. So in this case gvt regulations _enable_ competition and the effect on prices and qos is dramatic. I will leave the most ideologically blindsided anti-gvt drones think about the paradoxical situation.

    As for landmass, well, it brings obvious benefits to US residents, here are the drawbacks. You don't here from Japan that they are the #1 nation in agriculture because they make do with their small space. They just say ok, we depend on imports to eat, let's make up to that on smthg else.

    Korea is more connected than the US, and that's a fact. The same way that Finland will nevercompte with spain for the tourism euros of the Germans seeking sun during their vacation, the US will have to cope with a huge overhead to keep up in the world of connected societies.

    Maybe they should throw a little bit of gvt regulation into it.

  8. Re:Garbage? by PitaBred · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Because you live in a TOWN of 15k. That's non-trivial, and it'd be worth stringing a data line out to. However, we're talking about RURAL US. Many people in the rural areas of the US live in the middle of nowhere relatively, miles from their nearest neighbor, and it's not worth it to string out expensive fiber to where it'll serve less than 100 or so people. Even some suburbs are barely worth putting in the infrastructure necessary to support them.
    His logic is spot on. You don't seem to understand 'rural'

  9. Coverage in the US is kinda crazy.. by EvilStein · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Ok, I live in Pleasant Hill, CA. Look on a map - it's East of San Francisco by about 20 miles. The average income in the area is $60,000+ - over 20% of the population makes over $100,000.

    I cannot get DSL in my apartment complex. I can get a cable modem from Comcast, but that's it. Astound Broadband has tried to service this area but was shut out by Comcast.
    My friend down the street is in the Walnut Creek city limits. We're all on the same SBC fiber ring. Her DSL line cannot carry data reliably if it's set to 1.5mbit. Speakeasy has backed her down to 768kbps, but is still charging the same. She called Comcast and Astound - *neither* can service her with a cable modem.

    We're *not* in the boonies out here. So why the hell can't we get decent service? It doesn't make any sense to me, and when asked, the SBC & Comcast sales drones just say "planning on servicing that area soon..." (repeat every 6 months)

    1 person in ZIP 94523 sure as hell doesn't mean that everyone is happy - or can even get decent service at all.
    Stupid FCC.

  10. politically driven or dimwits by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    doing a survey by zip code is totally the wrong way. A better way to measure broadband service is by area code + exchange. That's how the phone company does it. For cable it depends which parts of their network is hooked up for broadband. I guess when the leader of the FCC is an idiot, you can't expect much.

  11. Re:Complete BS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    And what about Bush fixing the digital divide?
    Aparently you did not take any econ classes let me show you why this is DUMB. It sounds nice and fuzzy and awsome. But guess what MOST gov progs do not run very well. Look no further than one of the longest running ones social security. It all but bankrupt, some would say it is. BTW the most logical place this 'program' you propose would end up...

    Poof everyone has a internet connection. OH and poof everyone has a computer. OH AND POOF their electricity is paid for the computer. So for about 20-50 a month the goverment is paying each 'deserving' household. OH AND POOF new gov agency to take care of all this.

    Lets just say 2 million households qualify for this nifty deal. 20*2mil is 40million dollars. I can think a few better places in the goverment to spend that money... OH and thats PER month. so 40*12 is 480 million a year.

    Now here is the neat bit. You would end up raising internet prices. Yes RAISING THEM. As demand would go up so would prices simple econ 101. So what was 20 last year is now 22 this year and 25 the next. See the pattern?

    This is the land of opportunity not the land of free handouts... The people who do not have it may not WANT it. But that never occured to you did it? Or perhaps they are a TAD more worried about where the next meal is coming from than if they can surf slashdot...

    Prove to me that this is a good thing and I will sell it. But so far all I see are negitives. Other than a nice warm and fuzzy giving people the ability to surf porno at home...

    And my next prediction of your bitch about bush is that he has a 'deficet' CRAP like this MAKES a deficet a reality.

  12. Re:My question is... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful
    I'm not trying to troll, but I'm really asking how this will effect the US instead of just bragging rights.

    Because broadband applications and business, like e-teaching, or anything with video, CANNOT assume that most people have Internet. Just like it is common to assume everyone has (access to) phone, in heavily broadband countries, it will be common to assume everyone as broadband ("Support: hmm... you have a problem with the application? Ok, I'll give you the URL to download the content of the last DVD"). VOD could also become the norm.

  13. Landmass myth by lelitsch · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The "the U.S. has lower broadband coverage because so many people live waaay out in the country" argument doesn't really cut it. In 1990 over three quarters of Americans lived in cities. And the numbers have definitely not gone down since. So yes, it might be hard to cover 99% of the US, but getting to 75% should be fairly easy. At least I don't know of a town of any size that doesn't have some cables running into it.

  14. However, with extremely few excpetions by Sycraft-fu · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Everywhere in the US has a phone line and from that line you can get Internet service. I question the utility of mandidating and paying for higher speed access with public funds. Broadband is nice, don't get me wrong. I love my DSL and I pay for fast, professional grade service. However I have used dialup in the past, and have reverted to dial up in outages and when I've moved. It limits what you can do, but not severrly.

    Dialup is perfectly functional at this point for information access. The web works fine on a 28.8k modem, you just have to be a little relaxed and accept it can take 5-10 seconds for a page to load. It's not the excellent quality, always on, instentanious broadband that I love, but it's perfectly usable for my information needs.

    So that's the thing, I don't see it as a good use of our tax dollars. I think the free market is handling it fine, for now. Perhaps later the size of content will increase to teh point that I believe BB to be a necessity for useful Internet access, but for now it is most certianly not.

  15. Re:Most "broadband" in USA isn't really that broad by Cramer · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Well, it contains the letters D-S-L, so it must be broadband. *shakes head* Bellsouth even lists ISDN as DSL -- that's the only place I can find any mention of ISDN anymore, and even then, the pages are about a decade old.

    IDSL (144k) is not broadband; even bonded IDSL (max 576k) isn't broadband. ADSL/SDSL is not always broadband either -- ranging from 160k to around 7M. (down anyway)

    For the modern world (read: the world we live in right now), dialup is just too damned slow to get anything done. I've had ISDN (64k and 128k) since 1997, but switched to cable over a year ago because ISDN was just too slow. (and DSL wasn't available this far away from the CO)