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Smart Guns are Coming

wikinerd writes "Eurekalert reports that smart gun technology actually works. According to the press release, smart guns demonstrated by the NJIT, can recognise authorised users utilising "sixteen electronic computerized sensors embedded in the gun's grip" and "Under New Jersey law, passed in Dec. 2002, only smart guns can be purchased in the state three years after personalized handguns become commercially available. Lautenberg said New Jersey's legislative effort to introduce smart gun technology should be a national model for the country"."

23 of 1,089 comments (clear)

  1. Now all we need... by sjrstory · · Score: 5, Funny

    ...is smart users :)

    1. Re:Now all we need... by Surye · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I'm afraid I can't let you do that Dave.

    2. Re:Now all we need... by velo_mike · · Score: 5, Insightful
      What we need more is to make sure that these computerized sensors can't be _hacked_ to alter who has the authority to use the weapon. Unauthorized use is only good if you can keep the criminals from using stolen weapons (or purchased on the black market).

      What we need is to get this law overturned and reclaim our rights that were guaranteed under the 2nd amendment. Crippled weapons like these will only serve to get their owners killed or maimed due to a failure at the critical moment.

      --

      At the bottom of the endless pile of paper work which characterizes all regulation lies a gun.
      Alan Greenspan

    3. Re:Now all we need... by velo_mike · · Score: 4, Insightful
      especially for a person in a household with kids. Locking your gun and storing it in a locked safe is good, but having your gun which will not fire if one of your kids gets ahold of it is even better,

      Why rely on a hardware interlock to protect your kids? So they find your pistol and have a grand time pointing it at each other, they're "safe" because of the interlock, right? What happens at a friends house, someone who has firearms without the interlock (Of course it won't be the end of that for a few generations since there's -a lot- of guns out there already. )?

      I was brought up around firearms, as were my brothers and most of my friends. Dad's service revolver was loaded and in an accessible location from the time I was young. Was it a miracle all three of us made it to adulthood? Far from it, we were taken out at a young age, shown what it can do, and taught how to safely handle all manners of firearms. 25 years later, those habits are so deeply ingrained as to be involunatary - like breathing or swallowing. I'm only nervous around firearms when someone else, someone that I don't know well (most cops I've met), with unknown or outright dangerous habits are handling firearms.

      The point of the above ramble is that those who are safest with firearms are the ones who were exposed to them early and often, those who learned a respect for them from a young age. People who keep them stashed away, or worse, rely on mechanical devices, are setting their offspring up for a huge incident.

      --

      At the bottom of the endless pile of paper work which characterizes all regulation lies a gun.
      Alan Greenspan

    4. Re:Now all we need... by vanyel · · Score: 4, Insightful
      ...it will stop the problem of ... "my kid shot his friend when they got into my sock drawer."

      The reason kids would do that in the first place are because it's mysterious and forbidden. If they were taught how to use the gun and just what it can do at an early age, not only would it no longer be mysterious, but they'd know exactly what it can do and how to handle it. I grew up with unlocked guns around the house. A cousin didn't, and he didn't make it past his teens either.

    5. Re:Now all we need... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting
      > Thought about not buying gun at all? That solves most of the problems. In most cases the bad guys shoot better.

      Actually, they don't.

      The good guys - assuming firearms are legal (and in Europe, for the most part, they aren't) - can go to the range and practice any time they want. Most of us do, because we enjoy it. Putting holes in pieces of paper is easy. Putting holes in the right part of the piece of paper, however, is hard.

      The bad guys don't.

      If you're more than around 20 feet away from a bad guy with a gun, turn around and run like hell. Odds are pretty good that he won't hit you. Odds are very good that if he hits you, he won't hit you anywhere that'll kill you.

      In fact, if he's holding the gun sideways ("gangsta style"), I'd personally cut that down to ten feet. We got temporary special dispensation from the range officer (who was as curious as we were), and tried it. Even for an experienced shooter, it's goddamn near fucking impossible to hit jack shit that way, even if you take time to aim (which - if you're running away - the bad guy won't have time to do).

      In an ideal universe, there'd be no guns on the street. Maybe your part of the EU is part of that universe, but the US is not part of an ideal universe. Britain tried the experiment (banning firearms after legalizing them) after the Dunblane massacre -- and has discovered that the level of gun crime went up, not down, since doing so.

      It's sorta like drinking: No physician will ever tell you to start drinking... but most physicians will agree that if you drink, enjoying a glass or two of red wine a day is healthier than abstaining from alcohol completely.

      Next time you're in the States, if you visit a friend who owns firearms, ask him or her to take you to the range!

    6. Re:Now all we need... by CastrTroy · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You've been watching way too much Fox news. If you're really that scared of someone breaking into your house, buy some big steel doors and bars for your windows. Maybe even get an alarm system. Having a gun doesn't really stop anybody from breaking into your house. Unless you actually sleep with it under your pillow (bad idea), what are the odds that you are going to get to your gun faster than the raping gun toting burglar you described? Guns just give you a false sense of security without actually providing you with a sufficient level of protection.

      --

      Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
    7. Re:Now all we need... by Evanisincontrol · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I'm afraid I can't let you do that Dave.

      While I laughed my ass off when I read this, I think he's saying more than he knows. (or maybe he knows exactly what he's saying.) What if you're being attacked in your home, and your smart gun suddenly decides (due to circuitry failure or some other business) that you're not it's rightful owner? Your gun is now nothing more than a bludgeon.

      We've already put computers into every household appliance and most forms of transportation, and now we're introducing them into our guns. Do we really need to computerize weapons, knowing that all we're doing is basing MORE of our security on electronics? I would be happier knowing that the fate of the world still lies at least partially in the hands of humans, not in the circuitry of a processor.

    8. Re:Now all we need... by wattersa · · Score: 4, Interesting

      You're right, of course. Seeing as how "dumb" knives are freely available and virtually unregulated, I wonder how long it will be before knife weapons attract the same attention :-/. If someone calls this absurd, that's the point.

      It is hard enough getting a fully mechanical gun to function reliably every time; a 10% failure rate in today's handguns would be not only unacceptable, but dangerous by providing a false sense of security. The worst handguns today probably have a 1% or 2% failure rate at most, and even that is horrible. Personally I prefer a 0% failure rate, which is what my .45 auto has provided.

      The only application I see for this technology that would be accepted by the marketplace (without the NJ law...lol) is a firearm kept in a semi-public place or insecure location like in a car trunk or office, or used by a bartender or bouncer.

      A 10% failure rate is unacceptable for self/home defense. Note that the police are exempt from the new New Jersey law, despite that they are perhaps the group most likely to be shot and killed with their own weapons. They don't trust this technology, so why should I?

    9. Re:Now all we need... by ckedge · · Score: 5, Insightful

      .
      [RANT]

      What the fuck is it with Americans and their "I need a gun to shoot intruders in my home" crap. No where else in the whole fucking world do people say shit like this.

      Do you know how infrequently people come across intruders in their home, intruders who are actually intending to murder/harm the owner? And of those that own guns, do you know how FEW manage to get to their gun? And do you know how many have their shitty cheap gun misfire and jam, then having enraged the intruder get the shit beat out of them? Or actually shoot *someone else* they mistook for an intruder? Like their kids getting home late or their husband sneaking back into the house at 2am?

      Now compare all of the above to the number of kids and owners that shoot one another accidentally, the number that shoot one another because a gun is so handy and easy to pick up when angry, and the number of people shot because there are so many fucking guns that every single God damned 7-11 robber and car-jacker packs heat and is stupid enough to use it.



      [/RANT]

    10. Re:Now all we need... by macdaddy · · Score: 4, Informative
      Nice gun. My Glock 22 has a near 0% failure rate. I've only had one misfire in the handful of years I've owned it and the thousands of rounds I've put through it. I contribute that to faulty ammo though. It really wasn't the gun's fault. It's that damned PMC crap.

      Now on the otherhand my Marlin 336SS has an extremely high failure rate. In the 3-4 years I've owned it I've had it jam up so bad I have to disassemble it to unjam it. In fact it's jammed up this very moment and I can't get the thing apart. I have to send it back to the factory for repair. That gun's failure rate is more than a little unacceptable. My Marlin 1894 hasn't ever had a problem though. Odd. It must be a manufaturing error in my 336.

      You last sentence is a good one. I used the same arguement when I wrote to my state's senators last year when we were trying to get a CCW law passed (house passed it, Senate passed it with a veto-proof majority, the governess vetoed it. grrr). One of the good senators tried to introduce alternate language while the bill was in committee that would only allow the CCW permits to be issued for tasers and other non-lethal defensive weapons. Your arguement is the defense to that senator's language. The police don't trust the technology so why should I? Now let me expand on that. The police do use tasers. In fact they are becoming extremely common which is both a good and bad thing. The police however do not solely relay on tasers. They of course carry conventional firearms. Whenever you see cops enter a building with a non-lethal weapon to root out a suspect they never go in alone. They have at least one officer at their side with a conventional firearm drawn and ready to use. Stun guns don't always work. The clothing might be too thick. The probes might bounce off a large button, pin, cell phone, pocket protector, flask, bottle of jack, etc. It might hit the person's leather belt. It could hit in any number of places or ways that would render it useless. That also assumes the person firing it actually hits their target. Most consumer versions of stun guns are single-shot only. The user would have to reload to take a second shot. Since the range is usually limited to a about 15 feet (Taser International's product limitations) and since the minimum safe distance recommended by all personal safety classes is about 20 feet (see my previous post from tonight) the user wouldn't be able to reload the weapon, aim and fire again before the attacker was on them. Heck they'd already have to be in the person's buffer zone for the rounds to reach them period. The rounds aren't exactly the fastest in the world either so dodging them isn't impossible. Taser rounds aren't cheap either. How is a typical user supposed to practice with their gun when each round costs in the neighborhood of $20 or 7% of the cheapest Taser I found on the market (I just searched using Froogle for both the gun and the ammo). Practice makes perfect but apparently not if you can't afford to practice with your gun. .50AE rounds aren't even that bad. Neither are 470 Nitro Express rounds. Sheesh. You'd think the rounds were gold encased.

      Yeah, I think "smart" guns are for idiots and any law requiring their use must also be crafted by the same. Anyhow, I'm starting to rant. Nice Springfield though. I want a Kimber Gold Combat II.

  2. Hmm by ikkonoishi · · Score: 4, Funny

    I for one welcome our sentient weapon overlords

    1. Re:Hmm by Tackhead · · Score: 4, Funny
      > I for one welcome our sentient weapon overlords

      I, for one, welcome our seBLAM!

  3. Re:No Thanks by outZider · · Score: 4, Insightful

    If you're dealing with someone who has the foresight to use an EMP pulse, and has the equipment necessary to do it, you have bigger things to worry about.

    --
    - oZ
    // i am here.
  4. Re:First Charlie Brown by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny


    good grief that's offtopic

  5. Place your bets, place your bets.. by AndyCap · · Score: 4, Funny

    Is the first lawsuit going to be about a smart gun firing when it should not, or a smart gun not firing when it should?

  6. Bad, bad BAD idea. by Kronovohr · · Score: 5, Insightful

    This is a patently bad idea with regards to general usage. While this idea is great in theory, there is one major drawback:

    More components mean more points of potential failure.

    The problem in this is, should you need the firearm, at any time it may be unreliable no matter what you're using (even Kalashnikov recognized this in his design): when in a life-or-death situation, Murphy's law usually decides to rear its ugly head, and at that point you're playing the odds: I have x components, y components stand a chance of failing. If any one of y components fails, the firearm fails to function, and you may quickly wind up dead.

    Now: that said, if we had a society where firearms weren't necessary for home protection or policing (I rarely ever see the latter in action where I live, so I require the former), then this would be great. On sport firearms, this would be great, because you don't need the reliability you would in a protection scenario. However, in any situation to where you have a life-or-death scenario, as many firearms are manufactured for in the first place, you do not EVER want extra complexity that may cause failure in function of your sidearm.

  7. Would you like to be the test user? by ptbarnett · · Score: 4, Insightful
    Eurekalert reports that smart gun technology actually works.

    Depends on your definition of "works". From the article:

    Sixteen electronic computerized sensors embedded in the gun's grip distinguished known from unknown users. "We've only just begun and we're pleased to say that we're getting 90 percent reliability when scanning users," said Sebastian.

    There's no sane cop in this world that would carry a weapon for self-defense that worked reliably 9 out of 10 times.

  8. We need smart people... by MLopat · · Score: 5, Interesting

    This technology has very little merit. Since there are over 100 million weapons in North America, there will never be a problem for a criminal to find a gun that does not contain this "smart" technology. People that legitimately acquire weapons are not the ones that mis-use them.

    In Canada, there has been National debate over their new control registry that has legislated that all gun owners must now register their weapons. It's not very likely that legitimate gun owners are going to commit a crime with their .22 calibre hunting rifle. It is very likely the continued importation of illegal automatic assault weapons will be used for crimes though.

    The only place this technology has any applicability is in the hands of police if they feel they may lose their firearm to a suspect and have it used against them. And you don't hear about that happening to often because police have training. Develop smart people, not smart weapons.

  9. What happens when... by ShamusYoung · · Score: 5, Insightful
    Someone busts into my house, my wife takes out my gun, and the fucking thing doesn't work for her, because the gun is "mine".

    The article claims they have 90% reliability? MY gun shoots every single time I pull the trigger. So now we have:

    * A gun I cannot loan to a friend on the range

    * A gun which is going to be more expensive, due to all those fancy features, yet will be harder to SELL, even to another law-abiding citizen, because of the added difficulty in "transfering" the gun to the person so they can use it.

    * A gun that is far less reliable

    * A gun that is mandated by law (in New Jersey)as the only sort of gun I'm allowed to have

    * A gun with complex electronic parts that will be much less durable, and will probably require some sort of energy source (such as batteries).

    * A gun that will weigh more

    * A gun that criminals WILL NOT USE. They will bypass the security of stolen guns, or just trade in "non-secure" guns. So, only law-abiding people will be stuck with these crappy things.

    Why is it these lawmakers trust technology more than the people they represent?

    --
    --This sig is in beta. Please let us know abut any errors you find.
  10. Re:What happened... by harrkev · · Score: 5, Insightful
    I think that legislation for waiting periods and against concealed-carry is a great idea

    Good idea. Criminalize carrying a gun. That will stop the criminals -- they always obey the law. If this actually works, I say that we pass a law requiring all criminals to report to their nearest police station for arrest. That will clean up the streets.

    People who fill out the paperwork for a conceled permit, take the manditory safely training course, pay the rather large fee, and get fingerprinted (I have been through this process) are the ones most likely to obey the law. A criminal will NOT go through all of this trouble, and a criminal would not be stopped by a law criminalizing concealed carry.
    --
    "-1 Troll" is the apparently the same as "-1 I disagree with you."
  11. Thank God by The+AtomicPunk · · Score: 4, Funny

    As long as this stays in New Jersey and doesn't come to the United States, I think we're safe.

  12. Re:What if? by macdaddy · · Score: 4, Informative
    Ammo is the second most unreliable part of any weapons system. The first is the human operator. I've shot well-cared for 30-year old 7.62x39 ammo that had a failure rate of 2 in 5. 40%. I've only ever had one ammo failure in my Glock 22 in all the thousands of rounds I've put through it. I've had perhaps half a dozen misfires in my Anaconda with only a couple hundred rounds put through it. My Beretta 92FS Brig has misfired dozens of times with various brands of ammo, all of which were brand-spanking new and many of which were of a quality brand, Cor-bon and Hornady. My Marlin 336SS jams up so often that I now have to send it back to the manufacturer for an attitude adjustment. My SKS has a tendency to not fully close the bolt after firing.

    Gun control laws don't work so there's no point discussing them.

    Guns can be reliable. They can also fail miserably. I do an excellent job maintaining my guns and ammo. Still I've experienced many failures. Few however were the fault of the gun (the 336 and SKS problem certainly are though). Adding electronics to a gun won't make it more reliable though. It will undoubtedly make it more likely to fail. Suddenly we'll be faced with the prospect of guns that have to be serviced every 200 shots, or guns that only have a shelf-life of 5 years. That's absurd. I made a lot of other points about the "smart" gun in other threads. Check my profile if you want to read them. I think I asked some interesting questions though. With blood on your hand with the "smart" gun still recognize you, for example?