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Today in P2P

Hylton Jolliffe writes "I wanted to alert you to an article by research Marc Eisenstadt that digs deep into BitTorrent, its potential and limitations and its implications for podcasting, filesharing and more."

14 of 135 comments (clear)

  1. Legal uses by jacobcaz · · Score: 4, Insightful
    Just a few days ago I used BT for the first time to download a Knoppix 3.7 ISO. I was trying to download from the various mirrors, but the speed I was getting was terrible - around 2.9KBps.

    I grabbed BT for Win2000 and installed it in about 7 minutes, then I hit the torrent link for Knoppix. I was downloading the ISO at around 36KBps (about the limit of my DSL connection).

    Since I was heading to bed while it downloaded, I left BT up that night and the next day while I was at work to help other people out.

    I had seen BT as a place to snag nothing but rips of movies, and I've stayed away. The legal-usese BT community needs to do a better job of promoting the positive and allowable uses of BT and P2P sharing tools. They have a way to negative stigma right now.

    1. Re:Legal uses by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I have downloaded over a hundred gigs of music (every single file of that is LEGAL)

      I have uploaded 200 gigs of that same music.

      http://bt.etree.org

      it is a wonderful site with a range of music.

      I am not alone in that usage either. people who download pirated material generally dont come to that level (most bittorrent copyright infrigning material is not upwards of 1-5 gigs either, except dvd images)

    2. Re:Legal uses by ari_j · · Score: 4, Informative

      Just a suggestion - try 'ABC', as in 'Yet Another Bittorrent Client'. It is a far better Win32 client than is the official python client.

      That being said, I agree that Bittorrent needs to be publicized more for its clearly legal uses. I won't say that all multimedia downloading is illegal copyright infringement, but even under the assumption that it is, Bittorrent is still the single best way I know of for widespread legal distribution of large files.

    3. Re:Legal uses by bennomatic · · Score: 4, Insightful
      Totally agree. However, even the non-legit uses will probably eventually become legit. Like VCRs did after Sony was vindicated by the court decision against the MPAA which found that there were more legal uses for video tapes than illegal uses, or at least enough to justify their existence in the consumer market. Once the MPAA had to embrace it, they stopped fighting the VCR, and--miracle of miracles--the rental market padded their wallets quite nicely.

      I think we'll eventually see something similar here. A distributed distribution network which (i.e. Blockbuster) subscribers can use to download movies to their set-top boxes. And the network would be made up of those set-top boxes, so BB (or whoever) could cheaply distribute the movies that subscribers are requesting.

      The success of services like Netflix show that people want delivery. Storefront rental operations have stopped growing except in niche markets. The sooner that the industry in general, and companies like Blockbuster in particular give up their attachment to the physical disk/tape, the better they'll do.

      Of course, I like to root for the little guy. Maybe the moment that there's too much competition in the DVD mailer business, Netflix will unveil some secret deal they've worked out with the MPAA and a box they've developed and ship it out to all their customers for free, and it'll contain an embedded BT client for downloading and distributing all the latest cool films...

      --
      The CB App. What's your 20?
  2. Re:/.ed already? by jacobcaz · · Score: 5, Informative

    GET REAL
    January 11, 2005
    BitTorrent, eXeem, Meta-Torrent, Podcasting: "What? So What?"
    Posted by Marc Eisenstadt

    SUMMARY: The index that facilitates the sharing of files on a large scale is also the Achilles heel of peer-to-peer file-sharing, because it is vulnerable to litigation and closure. So what happens if the index is itself distributed? I try to get my head around the latest in peer-to-peer file sharing, and explain a bit about what I've learned, including the fact that BitTorrent's power rests in its 'swarm' distribution model, but not necessarily in your end-user download speed. What has this got to do with podcasting? (Answer: invisible P2P plumbing helps the podcasting wheel go round).

    [Warning: lengthy article follows].

    First, some history
    (skip ahead to the next section if you're already bored with the Napster, Gnutella, KaZaa, and BitTorrent saga).

    Napster opened our eyes to the power of distributed file sharing on a massive scale. But it was closed down by lawsuits to stop it from listing copyrighted works for which the owners would naturally have preferred to collect royalties (there are thousands of commentaries on the pros and cons of such royalties, but that's not the focus of this posting). Successive generations of tools such as Gnutella, KaZaa, and now BitTorrent have created their own buzz, their own massive followings, their own headaches, and their own solutions to others' headaches. Here's my rundown of the 'big ideas' (and the people behind them):

    Napster (Shawn Fanning): This was the Mother of big-time peer-to-peer (P2P) file transfers, i.e. my computer directly to yours, with a central server to maintain lists of who had what in order to initiate the transactions. It had a pretty decent user interface, plus the rapid growth, novelty, excitement and publicity that ensured plenty of good content. Those central server lists, leading to mass free trading of copyrighted material, also led it to be shut down.

    Gnutella (Justin Frankel and Tom Pepper, creators of WinAmp): This was an open-source protocol that linked autonomous 'nodes' (users of the network) to other nodes, thereby eliminating the need for a central server list. Searching reliability varies, however, because it is subject to outages according to the connection/disconnection of individual users along the way.

    KaZaa (Niklas Zennstrom and Janus Friis, who later created Skype): This technology built on a proprietary protocol called 'FastTrack', conceptually an extension to Gnutella, that deployed distributed 'supernode' search indices whose IP addresses were built in to the software, and which avoided the problems of (i) Napster's centralized lists and (ii) Gnutella's over-distributed nodes suffering outages and weakening the search. The prevalence of built-in 'adware' and the distribution of 'junk files' that masqueraded as originals were two of the weaknesses of the (still) wildly popular KaZaa.

    BitTorrent (Bram Cohen): This was the next 'creative leap' in the P2P world, based on the following insight: distributing large files in fragments among large numbers of users, and requiring every downloader to be a partial uploader (of these fragments), enables the 'best of breed' of swarming behaviour -- as a file becomes more popular, so it becomes easier to download, rather than harder (as is the case with traditional file distribution)! A good overview explanation and a helpful analogy are provided in this excerpt from Brian Dessent's BitTorrent FAQ and Guide:

    BitTorrent is a protocol designed for transferring files. It is peer-to-peer in nature, as users connect to each other directly to send and receive portions of the file. However, there is a central server (called a tracker) which coordinates the action of all such peers. The tracker only manages connections, it does not have any knowledge of the contents of the files being distributed, and therefore a large number of users can be supported with relatively limited tracker bandwidth. The key philosophy

  3. Re:Another useless blog by froggero1 · · Score: 3, Informative
    eMule? What's that?

    I use aMule

    --
    ~/.sig: No such file or directory
  4. No big deal... by revery · · Score: 4, Funny

    So BitTorrent is just about spreading the distribution load across multiple peers and can't speed up my physical connection to the internet.

    That's why I click on every banner I see that says "click here to increase your download speed". I think of them as the little speed boost arrows you could drive over in Excitebike.

    --

    This is a joke. You have been joked with.

  5. I OBJECT by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I object to the term "podcasting"

    People were doing that WAY before the ipod came about. and people will be doing it way after the ipod is dust. Why do we need to name something people were already doing after a companies product that DIDNT invent it.

    It's like the hype surrounding blogs (woo, a webpage....) except worse because atleast blogging is nominally different (in that it's journal-like) and blogging doesn't have the name of a company embeded in it (I know about blogger.com but they came AFTER blogging).

    It's just so lame it makes me have a fit, when people talk about their "podcasting" it makes me want to ram a fist into their trendiod eyesockets and scream into the gooey mess that's left "People were doing it way before you even heard that flaming useless branded buzzword".

    just had to get that off my chest.

  6. eMule stats not to be believed. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    This page suggests that the number of users is due to fake servers.

  7. This guy doesn't know what he is talking about by burris · · Score: 4, Interesting

    BitTorrent requires tracker sites to handle all the partial-fragment-negotiation (think of the madness of the floor of the New York Stock Exchange, and you get an idea of the cool juggling that a tracker has to do).

    If he knew anything about BT, he would know that the tracker only introduces peers to each other. The tracker only knows which peers are finished and which aren't. Each peer then manages it's own "fragment-negotiation" which is really just downloading the rarest pieces from it's own point of view. There isn't any negotiation at all, really.

    burris

  8. Nova by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

    HERE! is a torrent of torrents from the former Suprnova! Download and spread the word!

  9. add BitTorrent to http protocol by John+Macdonald · · Score: 4, Interesting
    As I visit yet another site to find it slashdotted, I find myself wishing that the basic http protocol included BitTorrent-like capability for basic web pages.


    Then, when a low volume, private site suddenly gets its 15 minutes of fame by being mentioned on Slashdot (or some other well-read news broadcast), it would automatically enlist the horde of new requesting sites to help distribute its content. The rest of the time, both before and after the flash mobbing period, it would just serve its own pages itself in the current manner.


    Since it is hard to predict which sites will be "discovered", it would be necessary for all standard servers and browsers support the http protocol extension, so this can't happen without a lot of coordinated work, I'm afraid. The protocol would have to be extended, web servers modified (Apache would e adaquate for a start), browsers modified (Mozilla/Firefox would be adequate for a start). When server was becoming overloaded it woud start by discarding requests from browsers that did not support the protocol, so that it can build up the initial seeding of helper sites. As long as there was more demand than available helpers, these old incapable browsers would continue to get ignored. Once a large enough group of capable helpers was built up to fully support itself, the group could start accepting requests from incapable browsers. That would provide incentive to upgrade older browsers.

  10. Re:Slashraped by Rei · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Hey, it's not as crazy as it sounds. If someone would just make a standard of "Content-Encoding: bittorrent", it'd take off ;)

    I've written a script (just finished last night) to make it easier to serve torrents on a website (they create metainfo and serve all files matching a particular pattern in a given set of directories, and shut them down and delete the created torrents when you stop it), designed to be used with MultiViews enabled (i.e., if they request the file, and they have their Accept header tag prefer bittorrent, it'll give them the torrent instead of the regular file; otherwise, they'll get the regular file). The downside is that I'm going to need to see if I can get any browsers to include bittorrent in their Accept tag :P It doesn't hurt - just a couple extra bytes per page request. It'd be best, however, if browsers were nice enough to let you set your own Accept tag :P

    Content-Encoding would be better, because it would be transparent. You wouldn't get a bittorrent download launched, but instead it'd be unpacked straight to the browser cache. A good implementation would allow multiple file to be torrented together, although that could get tricky. In theory, you could serve all requested static content in a single torrent; in practice, this may be unreasonable.

    --
    We're practicing our labials.
  11. New Category for P2P? by vyrus128 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    How about a "Peer2Peer" category for Slashdot? Who's with me? :-)