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Apple iWork Screenshots
applextrent submitted a story with a bunch of screen shots of Apple's new iWork package, including Keynote 2 and Pages, the new Apple word processor. Nothing particularly surprising here.
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If the former, *sigh*
"Nothing particularly surprising here."
... slow day then?
Where's the "Stuff that matters"?
A little bird told me that Apple posted their own screenshots. http://www.apple.com/iwork/
iWork is not an update. It's an entirely new software package, that was announced at the MacWorld expo. Would you care to tell me what package is being "updated" by iWorks?
Sure, it "replaces" AppleWorks - but is by no means an AppleWorks update, as you might have been able to tell by the completely different name. It's all new code, new interface, etc. etc.
It seems IDontWorkAnymore; /. effect ?
Everytime OO.o is updated there's a front page article on it. This isn't an update to an old application, it's a new word processor from Microsoft's only desktop competitor, THAT'S why we're hearing about it.
Not since Marie-Antoinette played milkmaid has looking simple and honest been so fake and complicated.
> Nothing particularly surprising here.
Are you crazy? You must have missed the 'i' in front of iWorks- These screenshots are nothing less than spectacular!
Does anyone know?
Is the document format for Pages open or proprietary?
Logic is the light of the digital age.
So far, still nobody has been able to answer the question wether Apple's iWork suite will be using OASIS-compliant file formats or not.
And even if hot: will iWork at least be able to import from and/or export to OASIS?
Both OpenOffice and KOffice will be supporting OASIS and bringing Apple aboard will probably be crucial in order to establish a serious alternative to the Microsoft file format hegemony.
"Oooh, does that mean we get to kick some puffy white mad zionist butt?"
I don't have the 80-column card!
The coolest voice ever.
Some of us care when someone (in this case Apple, in other cases Open Office, or KDE) releases software that challenges the dominant monopolist.
I've seen articles on OpenOffice, AbiWord, and NeoOffice J. This article fits in with that theme.
Do you have a particular anti Apple sentiment that makes this article particularly disturbing to you?
GPL Deconstructed
Also I am a bit surprised that Apple didn't go with an existing software base for their Office suite. It is obvious that what they are doing is a defensive maneouvre against the possibility that MS will drop Apple support for Office, like they did with IE. Apple had to have some non-IE backup plan and they chose to take Konqueror and turn it into Safari. Good choice Apple. But they could have done the same thing with iWorks. There are two code bases they could have picked: the obvious OpenOffice, and also KOffice. Actually KOffice is quite good, considering that it's a "small" project. And if they liked Konqueror then maybe KOffice would have also been appealing to them.
One interesting thing about this is that it is indicating that office software is becoming a commodity. There are currently half a dozen office suites out there (MS Office, iWorks, OOo, SoftMaker, KingSoft, KOffice and probably a few more I'm not remembering right now). I actually hope that iWorks is also ported to Linux, but that seems very very unlikely.
Looks like adding a photo to a page of text will be very easy in Pages, with the text adapting automatically.
;-)
If that is indeed the case, it's great - one of my pet peeves with Word is how annoying adding a photo+legend to a page of text is. You basically have to redo the layout every time you change the text.
BTW, if I am wrong and there is a way to include a picture and its legend in text with the text flow being auto-adjusted, please reply with explanations on how to do it instead of modding me as a troll
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Do people think this is because we have evolved to the design to something which is useful and "optimal", or because people are no longer willing to change a paradigm which may alienate new users? Are there any word processor suites (or stand alones) that differ significantly?
Whatever the next version of office will come out, I think MS will copy some of the features and look and feel (as much as they can and get away with it) of iLife '05.
It looks like Apple did a beautiful job. Now I'm starting to think that getting a MAC would be a good idea.
....predicting gloom and doom again eh? Didnt learn from your iPod errors yet did you?
Why am I not particularily surprised.
I am reconsidering buying that Mac Mini now. The thing keeping me from having a mac was the price and lack of a reason to just do everything in Word on a PC. Apple has outdone itself.
Greek is a typesetting term as well. In this case, it's referring to the traditional Lorem Ipsum placeholder.
Without Clippy, Pages just doesn't seem as user-friendly.
I switched to Mac about 3 years ago and really for the first 6 months, Apple Works 6 did just about everything I needed. Then I started getting to where PowerPoint was a must have for presentations and the spreadsheet would export data to excel but not the equations. So I bought Office V.x and frankly was plesantly surpised with an MS product that worked.
I work as a consultant and being able to share information with clients is a must! While we can debate the goods/evils of file formats etc. here in the world of geekdom, in the real world communication is key to me being able to put food on my table.
If apple supported OASIS, all the better, but until people are actually using the format it's not going do very much. It is a chicken or the egg arugement.
"The problem with socialism is eventually you run out of other people's money" - Thatcher.
The document format is XML and the schema for it should be posted sometime after the release. How SOON after the release I'm not sure. Just FYI, the Keynote schema that's currently posted on Apple's site is for version 1. V2 can read V1 docs, but cannot save to a V1 format. V1 of course, cannot open a V2 presentation.
Have you ever used Keynote?
If both Keynote 2 and Pages uses the same principle on their document formats as the original Keynote, it's nothing but open.
The Keynote documents (.key) are actually directories, not files, which have an XML file (presentation.apxl) and all the images, textures and data files used on it, on its original format (PNG, TIFF, etc.)
So I don't see how could this be 'another propietary Office format'. Given the facts just mentioned anyone could potentially write a Keynote viewer for Linux or whatever OS he/she might choose (or think of a Keynote to Magicpoint converter). Even the transition effects could be somehow recreated using OpenGL, as they're also into the XML file.
Regards,
Articulos para gente geek: Poleras, linux, libros y mas
OO is huge and cluttered. It's hard to change it's features to smoothly fit into Apples GUI-concept. It's UI is still stuck at the beginning of the 90s.
why apple dont you push mozilla more upfront
Konquerer hat the cleaner code. So Safari was based on KHTML and it was a good choice. Using Safari is bliss (but not ignorance).
why apple dont you push a native and complete workable FTP client more upfront with UTF-8 character set support!!!
Mainly because Apple belives that FTP does not have much of a future. Their Web-DAV support is much better. There are a few good 3rd party products for FTP though.
Absolutely, Microsoft file formats are the standards. They are a bad standard for many reasons. So people don't like this and what to change it. Getting Apple on board with the new standard would help a lot.
his isn't an update to an old application, it's a new word processor from Microsoft's only desktop competitor, THAT'S why we're hearing about it.
That's the usual Macintosh arrogance. Get used to it: Gnome and KDE are serious competitors to Windows and Macintosh on the desktop.
Keynote 2 seems to have far more efficient workflow than what I am accustomed to when working in MS PowerPoint. The visual qualitys are far better than what I am accustomed to seeing with Windows computers (edges, aliasing, effects, color, etc.). /. discussions.) OK, back on topic.
Pages is a word processing and limited, albeit very powerful, page layout application. Pages is excellent for writting papers, making small multi-page brochures, menus, etc. It is not a Quark / InDesign replacement and was not intended to be, as one of the UI designers stated to me at the exhibit ( I think he is telling the truth, as I did study at Uni with him and he has always been very truthful). Pages is not Word, there are several features currently absent from Word (as previously stated in this thread) that professional writers would need, version tracking is one of those features.
Notice that there isn't a Spreadsheet application in the iWorks suite? Me too. However, Appleworks 6.x still has this functionality, and it imports most MS Excel docs, plus it is much cheaper than Excel (US$49.00, I think).
By the way, there are several word processing applications available for Mac OS X: TextEdit (Apple), AppleWorks (Apple), Pages (Apple), Mariner Write (Mariner), Abiword, MS Word, and 2 applications by Nissus (there main App is feature rich / high end, the other very basic, more features than TextEdit). These are what I am aware of, please add to the list if I have not listed all.
There are several Spreadsheet applications as well, Mariner Calc, a few from open source, AppleWorks (as listed earlier), and that MS Excel Application. Again, if there are any I have left out, please add these in.
I do know that there is a java Office Suite applicaion available, I just don't remember it by name. The "open" office suite application that I have read about (sorry, I forgot its techy name)
is not really an application for most Apple users, as it requires a rather cryptic installation process, not very apple-like, and so I would refer to it as a kind of prototype software, not ready for non-techys (I am refering to the majority of computer users out there who need to do work with their computers, not get their computers to work) those people who do not have the time or interest in learning how to make a computer work. These are the
same people who do not upgrade thier refridgerators, TVs, washing machines, toilet, or water heater, unless they are broken, or want to re-model the house, these are the same people who buy software by the way. These same people are
also the ones who fix that broken plumbing, electrical, and so
on. ( Sorry had to rant a bit their as I read so much elitist garble
on
It seems as though Mac OS X will have nearly as many USEABLE (whatever this really means I am not sure) office productivity applications as are available for MS WIndows users. Is this the same situation as well, where 95% of people use the dominant application and the remaining applications fight for market share scraps?
I think variety is a very good thing, as is competition, so hopefully, these applications will find their respective niches and only have overlap in reading each others formats and basic features.
Cheers!
OASIS isn't even finished today! It's just the second draft. So you can't possibly offer any software that is truely using OASIS-Office as a document standard.
Real geeks loved Apple up until about 1982. The Apple II was open and geeks loved it. Steve Jobs closed the Machintosh shut. No information : just plug and live with what we give you was his motto. Apple died when Woz got kicked out and the marketing droids took over. Wanna develop for Apple? Lock-in city: it only works on Apple.
That was the case with classic MacOS. OSX is Unix at the core, supports multiple languages, integrates Java better than most other platform, and much of it is open source. Even if you use the "one true toolit" Coccoa, your code can be portable to Next, GNUStep, OpenStep etc. If you buy Apple, you are buying fluff. It is not the "GUI" pioneer. It is not "the fastest PC". It's closed source GUI is a complete anathema to geeks.
If you buy a linux distro, you are buying fluff. You are not buying a Unix Pioneer, or an Open Source Pioneer. It is not the "fastest OS." Its a rewrite of a platform orginally developed in the 70's in New Jersey.
Apple is for the digital illiterati.
Apparently Linux is for the digital elitist in your eyes.
--- Justin Dearing http://www.justaprogrammer.net/ We're just programmers.
It seems to me that Apple has to tread very carefully with an office productivity suite, so as not to piss off Microsoft. Witness the step-by-step introduction of a browser (Safari), presentation app (Keynote), and now a word processor (Pages). The missing pieces of the puzzle of course, are a spreadsheet and database. I'm willing to bet that they're already working on a spreadsheet with the features and capabilities of Improv which I've heard described as the best spreadsheet ever. It's also not a stretch for them to introduce a "Lite" version of FileMaker (which is owned by Apple) as a database module. Users needing more capabilities would be able to upgrade to the full-featured version of FileMaker, in much the same way that they can move from iMovie/iDVD to Final Cut Pro/DVD Studio Pro.
Apparently this says it all about an Aqua port. NeoOffice/J works pretty well and I'm sure it'll just get better. So looks like that's the only version of OOo for Mac for the forseeable future.
As far as OOo being the future of office apps, I dunno. There's something to be said about simplicity and OOo inherits all of M$'s bad habits, specifically more is more. I do agree witht he open file format approach tho.
Frankly, I'd like some office apps with core functionality and that's it. That's why I like Keynote so much over PP - besides the fact that it looks a million times better.
take his comments with a grain of salt:
Keynote 2 seems to finally be able to compete with PowerPoint on a number of new levels, especially now that it has, for example, presenter display.
Keynote 1 had this and did it quite well (better than PowerPoint X and about on par with 2004).
Honestly, I found that using keynote was a delight to work with when compared to powerpoint once you got accustomed to the way it worked and the minimalistic interface which I've come to love. Palettes are much easier to work with than toolbars. Despite having an interface which is FAR less cluttered than powerpoint, I have yet to come across a feature powerpoint had that keynote 1 didn't.
As Icing on the cake, keynote will import or export to just about anything. And, as with any OS X application, PDF Export works by default. I particularly liked the Quicktime Export feature, and Flash export should prove to be interesting.
To rave just a bit more about keynote, the templates are simply beautiful and the transitions are very smooth and look beautiful (although they're by no means distracting/annoyinh like those in powerpoint).
Other awesome features -- snap-to centering both for the slide and the content pane. Transparency, rotation, and cropping work for virtually all image types. Tables actually look nice, and charts are also pleasant to look at.
I'm looking forward to the new animation tools in Keynote 2. The first version is one of apple's best kept secrets.
Presentations are all about looks and.... presentation. I've never understood how powerpoint was able to be successful while producing some of the ugliest presentations i've ever seen.
-- If you try to fail and succeed, which have you done? - Uli's moose
But it also has its own, native format. That could be yet another messy, proprietary format, or it could be a standard XML-based format like OASIS. Well, which is it?
Likely it is an open file format just like Keynote (v1) and likely not that greatly different from it. They just haven't publish the information yet (the product hasn't shipped yet for one).
Keynote (v1) technote
Apple has no reason to keep it proprietary and many reasons to publish the format in the open (it helps the product if others can important/export it).
why apple dont you push openoffice more upfront
...what's the word I'm looking for here? Wrong.
Because, from a Mac user's point of view, Open Office is just terrible, terrible software. It isn't even a Mac application. It has to run under X11, a windowing environment that isn't installed by default and that most Mac users will never need or want. It doesn't support Mac givens like drag-and-drop or advanced typography. Hell, it doesn't even support cut and paste!
Put a computer user down in front of Open Office on the Mac, and the response is going to be "This sucks." Apple, understandably, doesn't want anybody to have a reason to say "This sucks" while sitting in front of a Macintosh.
why apple dont you push mozilla more upfront
See the above answer, minus the part about X11. Mozilla (Camaro, Firebird, whatever the hell they're calling themselves this week) just sucks compared to Safari.
why apple dont you push a native and complete workable FTP client more upfront with UTF-8 character set support!!!
What, you mean like Transmit from Panic Software?
If you consider that there are about 35 million Mac users out there, the fraction of them who ever need to use an FTP client is vanishingly small. If all you need to do is download files, the Finder takes care of that for you: FTP URLs are handed off to the Finder. For the one-in-a-thousand who need to upload, Panic has your number.
safari miserably fails to complay with w3c standards
Um? That's
fail to run properly javascript
Again with the wrong.
fail to run properly flash apllications
No, also not true.
I think the problem here might be related to the fact that you haven't got the foggiest idea what you're talking about. I think that might be a part of it.
Apple is also highly unlikely (at this stage) to stick its oar into the OOO pond.
"Brian, there's a message in my Alphabits! It says 'Ooooooo.'"
"Peter, those are Cheerios."
That's why there's a published schema, genius. So that the architects of that format can tell you about "those little parameters." The point is that it is possible to write a fully compatible importer for Keynote presentations on any platform. This level of openness is impossible with closed, binary formats like Word.
all your answers are evasive to the real point of the problem
...office suite
You're absolutely right. I should have spent more time on the fact that "Ricardo" is an illiterate mouthbreather who hasn't got the first idea of what he's talking about. I definitely should have been more clear about that. My apologies.
do you real know what you are talking about?
Yes, I "real know."
do you real use a computer for work?
Yes, a two-year-old Power Mac G4.
they sure can do better on
Um. I'm gonna go real slow here, because apparently your meds started to kick in while you were writing your comment: Apple has released a new product. The new product is called iWork. iWork consists of a word processor and a presentation program. The word processor is called Pages. The presentation program is called Keynote. These are good programs. Apple made them, and they are good. Apple has, in other words, "done better."
Kay?
i love when you say ppl dont need ftp, and the native one is enough, came on.
I guess it would be too much to ask that your comments either contain an idea or intelligible writing, huh? I'm not greedy. I'd be happy with either one or the other.
do you real tryed to upload files at least once?
Yes, I "real tryed" just a couple of weeks ago, in fact. Somebody asked me to upload some digital pictures to his FTP server because he was too baffled by the concept of trying to download them from my iDisk. So I downloaded Transmit and did what I needed to do. (Thanks, Panic, for offering a free trial.)
are macos users so naive or inacessible that they dont pull stuff from ftp servers?
Um. I think you've kind of got that backwards. The Internet has moved on. Most stuff isn't stored on FTP servers any more. To access the occasional stuff that is, the Finder handles connecting to and downloading files from FTP servers. If you need to upload, Transmit is the program of choice.
came on give me a break!
Okay, I will "came on" and give you a break. You got it.
Price the whole thing at $99-$149 and release a couple more versions - people will be switching from Office in droves.
Apple recognizes the threat here - if MSFT withdraws their Office from Mac software market Mac as a platform will suddenly become a lot less desirable for tons and tons of users. All they need to do to lessen the impact is release their own office suite with 20-30% of features of competing office suite that customers use 95% of the time and most importantly get their import/export from PP/Word/Excel just right. And make it look nice (this is one of the things Open Office failed miserably at).
There you go, one less dependency.
Mozilla (Camaro, Firebird, whatever the hell they're calling themselves this week) just sucks compared to Safari.
You had me until here; Gecko (the Mozilla rendering engine) is generally regarded as the best rendering engine available. It's not the fastest, mind you, but it's the most developed with regards to web standards. Safari isn't far off, but some of it's quirks can get a bit annoying at times. Just ask Gmail users what they thought of Safari up until about 2 months ago.
As a web developer, I'm generally pretty happy with how Safari renders websites, but I really do wish that Apple had forked Gecko instead of KHTML. Given the popularity of Firefox, the Gecko engine has some serious momentum behind it from web developers; twiddling with a 3rd major rendering engine (KHTML) just adds to testing time. And at this point, Firefox and its brethren run as fast as Safari, even though they're not Cocoa applications.
I know that Apple wants to bring as many applications in house as possible, but as a Mac user, at this point I question the value of Apple continuing to sink resources into its own browser when a clearly equal if not superior peer product exists in Firefox (and even moreso after Firefox 1.1 with Mac-specific tweaks is released). Firefox isn't Cocoa, but not everything has to be, either.
I'd be surprised if it didn't. Apple seems to pay a lot of attention to typography - ligatures are a standard feature in the Mac OS X 10.3+ text editing control. You can even use them in the simple ol' TextEdit.
The FTP support is TERRIBLE in OS X
Gopher support is even worse. Where's the outrage?