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A New Kind of Chemistry

pq writes "Reasearchers at VCU, Pennsylvania State have created "superatoms" of aluminium and iodine that behave like the alkaline earth metals. From the article: "Our production of such a species is a stirring development that may lead to new compounds with a completely new class of chemistry and applications". Another article on Biomedcentral"

57 comments

  1. 'Nanotech' implications? by tod_miller · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I have been waiting for some kind of similar announcement, something that will have some impact in nanotech thinking circles. Although this area of nanotech is completely hyped and misrepresented by every company involved in it.

    The goal is to use these clusters as building blocks to tailor the design and formation of materials with selected properties.

    They have basically coated aluminium atoms with iodine atoms, and produced a molecule that acts like a huge iodine atom, but with hybrid properties.

    In the future 'chemical computing' (not computational chemistry) can be achieved and allowing us to build primitive components of a mass production system (basically a highly iterative and controlled series of reactions, building larger and larger blocks, that progress down a conveyer belt).

    Anyway, it sounds good, and I cannot wait until the real application of this becomes app'nt (breaking the current nm barrier in CPU tech so we can hit 10ghz at consumer level).

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    1. Re:'Nanotech' implications? by Wandering+Wombat · · Score: 2, Funny
      What would be the practical applications of these super-atom overlords? Extra-large selectively-reactive iodine atoms are cool, but I don't see just yet how it would revolutionize the world.

      I understand this is the first step on a long staircase of discovery, but can anyone tell me where the staircase goes?

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    2. Re:'Nanotech' implications? by tod_miller · · Score: 1

      Perhaps these are the solution to fat/too many finger problems associated with the nut job ideas of 'nanotech' which is a stupid word to describe programmable chemistry.

      I cannot see how a conveyor belt would work, but each individual 'engine' would merely be a iterated series of controlled reactions, designed to create the right mix, which get filtered into 'clean' factories, and then each one gets processed.

      Being able to combine super atoms in clever ways, or using superatoms to combine other products, could create complex super-super-molecules of super-atoms, that act like 'intelligent' (programmable) proteins, that react to the chemical mix you submerge them in, and go about changing it.

      From nano to macro.. .this I cannot fathom...

      But more cool type reactions, and crazed meglomaniac alchemists destroying the world, that is about 3 years away :-)

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    3. Re:'Nanotech' implications? by Spy+der+Mann · · Score: 2, Informative

      ...primitive components of a mass production system (basically a highly iterative and controlled series of reactions, building larger and larger blocks, that progress down a conveyer belt).

      Anyway, it sounds good, and I cannot wait until the real application of this becomes app'nt (breaking the current nm barrier in CPU tech so we can hit 10ghz at consumer level).


      I think you're too much into molecular assembly. Nanotech has slowly acquired a new meaning: Use of nanostructures (nanotubes) and quantum physics (quantum dot) for diverse apps.

      IIRC (If I recall correctly), nanotube transistors are what is needed to go not only for GHz, but for THz in computing. There are already experiments in nanotubes superconductivity.

      If you're still into molecular assemblers, you could try these new DNA-as-crane chip manufacturing methods. They sound promising.

    4. Re:'Nanotech' implications? by tod_miller · · Score: 1

      I think some people were quite upset that the word nanotech was hijacked by infant technologies trying to gain venture capitalist funding.

      Anyone knows, if you haven't got at least one cool buzzword in your pitch, you can't afford a ferrari afterwards.

      Yes I also read the article on 'DNA' being used in chips, I think it was on some geeky nerd news site... *thinks* :-)

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  2. Just one step closer by AtariAmarok · · Score: 4, Funny

    Just one step closer to the transparent aluminum whale-aquarium.

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    1. Re:Just one step closer by lineman60 · · Score: 0

      well its getting colser then you think http://www.rense.com/general20/transparentalum.htm

    2. Re:Just one step closer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's transparent alumina, not trasparent aluminium. Table salt crystals are pretty transparent, doesn't mean sodium is!

    3. Re:Just one step closer by CTalkobt · · Score: 1

      Actually this might not be as far fetched. Glass is basically "organized" silicon (I think, if I'm remebering right) so it wouldn't be that far-fetched to tag some silicon strands onto AL and have your nice little aquarium.

      IANAC:JAUS (I am not a chemist:Just another uninformed slash-dotter).

      --
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    4. Re:Just one step closer by Goronguer · · Score: 1

      What I want to know is, does this bring us one step closer to dilithium crystals? Could they be made of "superatoms" of lithium?

  3. transparent alumunium by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    scotty double dumbass to you for polluting our timeline.

  4. The stories seem to contradict each other by benhocking · · Score: 4, Interesting
    From the Times Dispatch story:
    When the number of iodine "ornaments" is an even number, the "superatom" is very stable and doesn't react with other elements, even oxygen. If the number of "ornaments" is odd, the superatom is reactive.
    From The Scientist:
    For example, when the 14-atom aluminum cluster combines with three iodine atoms, it creates an ion with overall negative charge which is actually extremely stable. Such novel properties provide the potential for creating radically new nanoscale materials, Khanna said. He noted that the work on clusters containing iodine could have important medical applications, given the element's key role in a number of biochemical pathways.

    I'm probably misreading something, but it seems that since there are 3 iodine atoms in this molecule, it should be reactive and not stable (at least acording to the first article).

    It will be interesting to see if this opens up broad new areas of chemical engineering, but since the technology seems somewhat old, I am skeptical that this is as revolutionary as it sounds to my undereducated ears.

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    1. Re:The stories seem to contradict each other by crow · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Not necessarily a contradiction.

      Hydrogen reacts with lots of things, but it's very stable in the sense that it continues to be hydrogen. These clusters may be reactive, but are very stable in the sense that the clusters remain intact with all the same properties of the cluster.

      Or at least that's my understanding of what they're trying to say, having not read the article.

    2. Re:The stories seem to contradict each other by Lars+T. · · Score: 3, Informative

      The sentence from the Times Dispatch is refering to the Al13 cluster, the Scientist talks about the Al14 cluster.

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    3. Re:The stories seem to contradict each other by iq+in+binary · · Score: 1

      Stability and reactivity are not mutually exclusive. Being reactive yet still stable merely means it takes a catalyst not naturally occurring to achieve said reactivity.

      --
      Of all the Universal Constants, here's one I know: Nice guys finish last ;)
    4. Re:The stories seem to contradict each other by TigerNut · · Score: 1

      Most elements with atomic mass less than or equal to that of uranium have at least one "stable" isotope, and an element's nuclear characteristics doesn't influence its chemical reactivity. I think TFA was talking about stability vs. reactivity on a chemical level.

      --

      Less is more.

    5. Re:The stories seem to contradict each other by Gewis · · Score: 1

      Okay, high speed, there's nuclear stability, and there's chemical stability. Nitrogen gas is very chemically stable. There's very little it will react with unless you give it huge amounts of heat. Cesium is very unstable, chemically, and will readily react with many things, particularly water.

      So this is NOT what the article meant. They're explaining that with one type of cluster, Al13, the number of iodine attachments has a lot to do with its chemical stability.

    6. Re:The stories seem to contradict each other by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What you are confused by is:

      the times is talking about the thirteen atom cluster of aluminum atoms, Al13.

      The scientist is talking about Al14.

      These are two distinct structures which react differently. Both are discussed in the paper.

      The Al13 atoms act like halides, the Al14 clusters act like Alkaline metals, but in both cases they dont loose their geometry and go back into being bulk phase aluminum. they stay "superatoms" with their new, different properties, resultant of the quantum confinement of the electorons. which are usually free to move about in the conduction band of, Aluminum.

      This is why they can be use full, they are stable enough to use in real chemistry.

      Thats what's cool

  5. Super-atoms? by AlgaeEater · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Looks like they are more like molecules (or rather metalic latice fragments). Calling them 'super atoms' is a little misleading; it make them sound like a man-made atom when they are not. Ionic-alloys might be better terminology. Interesting though, if the process can be made cheap enough we may be able to mimic the properties of incredibly rare metals and use a man-made substitute in their stead. AE

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    1. Re:Super-atoms? by 19thNervousBreakdown · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Even better, we could mimic the properties of metals that we want, without their drawbacks. Lead is an extremely useful metal; if we could create something with it's beneficial properties and lose the whole poison thing, just think of the boost to industry.

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    2. Re:Super-atoms? by belg4mit · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Many properties are related (they all stem from the same root causes afterall: mass and electron configuration). You want to have your cacke and eat it too.

      --
      Were that I say, pancakes?
    3. Re:Super-atoms? by 19thNervousBreakdown · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      If you mean cake, then well yeah.

      If you mean cock in a cake... hell, I'll try anything once.

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    4. Re:Super-atoms? by Almost-Retired · · Score: 1

      Even better, we could mimic the properties of metals that we want, without their drawbacks. Lead is an extremely useful metal; if we could create something with it's beneficial properties and lose the whole poison thing, just think of the boost to industry.

      I'm afraid I'd have to remain a bit wary of this, because of the connection between environmental alu and alzheimers. What man can put together, nature has already figured out a way to take it apart, in most cases, the pcb's being the monumental example of one of natures failures.

      Also, in the case of lead, I'm 70, and have been downwind of a hot soldering iron for nearly 60 of those years in my life as an electronics service type, boy genuis turned old fart now. I can still drive a vehicle, tie my shoes and build new programs for this computer. Methinks the lead danger is overrated except perhaps in the paint on baby cribs.

      I'm more worried about long term effects of alu on me than anything related to Pb. I've drunk my beer (2 a night) from glass bottles, not cans, for 20 years in the hopes that even that will make a difference in how well I can function right up to the event that takes me out. I don't drink canned pop for the same reason.

      --
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    5. Re:Super-atoms? by Wandering+Wombat · · Score: 1

      Tell someone from the Cominco smelter that metal poisoning is over-rated. They wouldn't be able to reply very well, because at the age of 30, their teeth have all fallen out, and the hair is close behind.

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    6. Re:Super-atoms? by Almost-Retired · · Score: 1

      First, I have no idea who cominco smelter is, or where. As for teeth, I still have about 27 of mine, 3 of which are wisdom FWTW, and while my hair has never been thick and luxurious, and its getting a bit thinner in the middle as the years go by, but the hairline itself has not receeded and I still need a haircut about every 2-3 weeks as usual. Overdue right now in fact.

      Granted, my heavy metals exposure would be far less than someone working in a poorly ventilated smelter would be, but the epa should be taking steps to make that a safer place to work over the last 40 years or the inspectors need to taken off the payola, one of the two.

      But thats a bit like coal mining here in WV, it takes a major accident to bring out the mine inspectors, otherwise its business as usual.

      --
      Cheers, Gene

    7. Re:Super-atoms? by Wandering+Wombat · · Score: 2, Informative
      The Cominco smelter is one of the oldest smelters in North America (Canada, actually) operating since 1895. I'll be closing down soon, thank god, although the river live in the area is not expected to return. Ever.

      They had lead, arsenic, thallium, and lord knows what else poisoning there, and they didn't even tell anyone thallium was on the premises until 2001. There was a fine, an apology, and that was it. True, this is a bad example, since it is a huge old smelter, and not the most efficient thing in the world.

      They ran some tests, and the amount of some elements in the clothing of Cominco workers was past the safe limit. This was clothing that had already been washed, mind you.

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    8. Re:Super-atoms? by Almost-Retired · · Score: 1

      In other words you are saying thats its in the local water supply that people are also drinking? Good grief.

      And any idiot, raving from thirst in the desert, and coming across a pool of water, knows that first, before you drink, make sure there are some bugs etc in the water, because if there isn't, its poisoned water.

      How far downriver it it dead? All the way to the St. Lauwrance? (sp)

      --
      No cheers on this one, Gene

    9. Re:Super-atoms? by Wandering+Wombat · · Score: 1
      Well, all the way to the St Laurence would be fascinating to see, since it's in British Columbia, above the Idaho/Montana border. ;)

      Yeah, the river is pretty messed up, but downriver where it joins up with other tributaries it dilutes enough to allow some life, and by the time it reaches the ocean you can barely tell, but a large portion of the valley is pretty well poisoned. Cancer and leukemia rates are something like triple normal, but there's so few people (just Cominco workers, and their families) living there that the statistics don't make a big enough effect. And, really, people have known from the 40's that if you work there, you will be very well paid and probably die of poisoning. It's just one of those things. I've met people who worked there, and they are so casual about it, it's startling. "Yeah, I got something like four times the lethal dose of lead in me, and they can't get rid of it. *cough* Where's the beer? Who wants to play poker?"

      --
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    10. Re:Super-atoms? by Almost-Retired · · Score: 1

      My bad, wrong end of the country.

      Thats the effect on the IQ of all that heavy metal. Athritics every one of them too I expect. But if you know you're a goner, why not have another beer and forget it even faster?

      Sad but oh so true.

      --
      No Cheers this time, Gene

  6. Ugh... Get your facts by Lord+Pillage · · Score: 1, Insightful
    From the article...

    In contact with air, aluminum quickly is coated with a layer of aluminum oxide that resists corrosion.

    Maybe it's resistant to corrosion because it's already corroded. Oxidization is corrosion!

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    1. Re:Ugh... Get your facts by AlgaeEater · · Score: 4, Informative

      Corrosion. def: a state of deterioration in metals caused by oxidation or chemical action.

      Corrosion tends to be used for a continual process of deterioration whereas the oxidation coating formed on aluminium is very stable and prevents any further corrosion. A similar thing happens with the carbon lattice in diamond; it is a hydrogen coating rather than oxygen though.

      AE

      --
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    2. Re:Ugh... Get your facts by amjacobs · · Score: 1

      True. The statement should say that the layer of aluminum oxide resists further corrosion.

    3. Re:Ugh... Get your facts by myukew · · Score: 3, Informative

      corrosion is an ongoing process as long as the environment doesn't change, like with iron and water.

      aluminium gets this ultra thin oxide layer and doesn't react any further.
      so they're right

    4. Re:Ugh... Get your facts by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      These clusters were made in the absence of oxygen, bt shooting an aluminum rod with a laser in a vacuum tube. then when they were collected, and reacted with oxygen they didn't react with oxygen. Al(2)O is callecd alumina and is the oxide layer you are reffering to,

      There is no Oxygen in these clusters, other wise they would not be Al13 and Al14, they would be Al(14)O.

      Thats why every one is interested it this stuff. they dont form the layer of alumina.

  7. Better living through chemistry! by Black+Parrot · · Score: 0, Offtopic


    > Our production of such a species is a stirring development that may lead to new compounds with a completely new class of chemistry and applications

    Pros:

    • Tastes like grape juice
    • Adds 76mm, on average
    • Not detected by steroid tests


    Cons:
    • Turns you into a psychotic axe-weilding zombie
    • Causes hair loss in some zombies
    • Axe not included

    --
    Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
  8. How about radicals? by benhocking · · Score: 2, Insightful

    That sounds like a better description to me. I agree "super-atoms" is a really bad name. I'm no expert in chemistry so perhaps there is something about these clusters that causes the radical moniker to be inappropriate.

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    1. Re:How about radicals? by Xilman · · Score: 2, Informative
      I'm no expert in chemistry so perhaps there is something about these clusters that causes the radical moniker to be inappropriate.

      In chemistry, the term radical is almost always reserved for electrically neutral species containing an unpaired electron (very rarely, two unpaired electrons). By this measure, these metal clusters are not radicals.

      Paul

      --
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  9. What is new by Mark+of+THE+CITY · · Score: 1

    Aluminum is highly reactive; however, bulk pieces are passivated by near-instantaneous formation of an impermeable oxide layer, in air.

    The article describes formation of aluminum clusters of some small number (13 or 14) of atoms which are passivated (made non-reactive) by some variable numbers of iodine atoms. The resulting cluster presents iodine atoms to the outside world and thus acts as a big iodide atom.

    --
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  10. The short of it... by SmurfButcher+Bob · · Score: 1

    ... some guys have invented "emulation mode" for atoms. I expect their project should have an Alpha release, soon... ;)

    --

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    1. Re:The short of it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I expect their project should have an Alpha release, soon...

      Hee hee ... the radioactive isotopes of aluminum are all beta emitters, not alpha emitters.

      Cool periodic table with isotopes and stuff

    2. Re:The short of it... by CodeMonkey4Hire · · Score: 1

      I wonder if God (or Nature if you prefer) will send them a cease and desist letter, making them pull it off their website, forcing us to look for a .torrent?

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  11. Chemical Bonding? by pomegranatesix · · Score: 1

    What kind of chemical bonding binds the iodine atoms to the aluminum? I don't really 'get' how it works. Aluminum, if I remember correctly, normally has a +3 charge. Iodine is variable, but likes to be at -1. So in "normal" chemistry, compounds like AlI3 are pretty common. How does this "new" chemistry work? I know they substitute an aluminum atom into a chain of iodine atoms, and the iodine 'wraps' around the aluminum, making it a core. It's not really like iodine just kind of clumps together around an aluminum atom naturally -- wouldn't it decompose and break off into I2, lowest energy form? What keeps the iodine attached to the single aluminum atom? It's not the usual ionic forces, and definitely not a covalent force. Aluminum has 13 electrons (correct me if I'm wrong,) so theoretically it could have a +13 charge, so I guess you can attach 13 iodine atoms with a -1 charge, but would that require A LOT of energy to remove all those electrons? Gah. I'm a first-year Chem major, and this is puzzling the hell out of me.

    1. Re:Chemical Bonding? by gnuman99 · · Score: 1
      Gah. I'm a first-year Chem major, and this is puzzling the hell out of me.

      Don't worry. I got a physics degree and don't know how it works either :P.

      You can't just count electrons here to see what is going on here. You'll have to do some quamtum mechanics. What they claim to do is to have a cluster of atoms bind to form a molecule that has a wavefunction equivelent (or close enough) to a different element. They call it "superatom" just because it is physically larger.

      If they actually produced something that has a similar wavefunction as other elements, then this is very exciting. It would allow mutation of things like nobel gas (13 Al, as in article) to reactive (14 Al) and back. This is very excting from materials point of view. It would be like a new class of chemistry (ie. change one "atom" to another with a chemical reaction).

    2. Re:Chemical Bonding? by pomegranatesix · · Score: 1

      It's motherfuckin' ALCHEMY! That's what it is. Transmutation. Ah, my chemistry professor will have me burned at stake. Anyone think the ancients were on to something? Maybe there's some truth to dragons too. (Sorry, I'm a fan of anime, and I just saw Full Metal Alchemist.)

    3. Re:Chemical Bonding? by Dachannien · · Score: 3, Informative

      Well, there are some non-first-year concepts at work here. From looking at the Science* article (14 Jan 2005 issue, p 231-235), I gather that the aluminum atoms form a small "jellium" cluster. Within a cluster of this type, the electrical potential is relatively uniform, but there are boundary effects at the edge of the cluster.

      In the Al13 cluster, the inner electrons are kept in normal ground states, and combined with the atoms' protons, form a net positive charge. The outer (valence) electrons react to this charge by falling into energy states dependent upon the whole Al13 molecule, not the individual atoms. In fact, the molecule's energy states can resemble those of other atoms, and can behave in the same ways that those other atoms do. Al13, for example, resembles a halogen, and so it binds to varying numbers of iodine atoms covalently.

      Now, I'm not actually a chemist (I was brought up in electrical engineering and computer science), so my reading of the details might be wrong, but I think that's how it works.

      (* You'll either need a Science subscription, or you'll need to access from the domain of an institution that has a site subscription. The vast majority of US universities do.)

    4. Re:Chemical Bonding? by Mark+of+THE+CITY · · Score: 1

      The 'new class' (atomic, molecular clusters) has been around a while, but only at near-0K temperature. This is the first 'room temperature' system I've heard of.

      --
      The clearance system sounds logical. It is not. It is completely arbitrary. -- John Bolton
  12. MOD PARENT FUNNY by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Full metal alchemist (lol)

  13. MOD PARENT UP by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Informative

  14. Wrong terminology? by blincoln · · Score: 1

    The Times-Dispatch article refers to the 13- and 14- atom clusters as "Al13" and "Al14." Wouldn't that be regular aluminum and an isotope of aluminum with one extra neutron, or does the lack of a dash really make the difference?

    I notice that The Scientist's version of the article does not use this terminology.

    --
    "...always new atoms but always doing the same dance, remembering what the dance was yesterday." -Richard Feynman
    1. Re:Wrong terminology? by blincoln · · Score: 1

      Wait, I think I have *my* terminology wrong too. Al-13 and Al-14 can't even exist, because Al has an atomic number of 13.

      --
      "...always new atoms but always doing the same dance, remembering what the dance was yesterday." -Richard Feynman
    2. Re:Wrong terminology? by blincoln · · Score: 1

      Ah, I see. I am dumb. They mean the number as subscripted, like writing the formula for water as "H2O."

      --
      "...always new atoms but always doing the same dance, remembering what the dance was yesterday." -Richard Feynman
  15. So Al_{13} and Al_{14} might be opposite? by benhocking · · Score: 1

    Al_{13} is stable with an even number of iodine atoms and reactive with an odd number of iodine atoms, whereas Al_{14} is stable with an odd number of iodine atoms (or at least with 3 iodine atoms)? That is probably the best way to explain what seemed liked a contradiction to me. Thanks for the input. This then leads me to wonder if one could generalize this to odd(AL)-even(I) is stable and even(AL)-odd(I) is stable, although clearly this is just a question and doesn't even qualify as a hypothesis.

    As an aside, I wish /. would support <sub> and <sup> or recognize TeX formatting.

    --
    Ben Hocking
    Need a professional organizer?
  16. Credit Is Due at Multiple Institutions by andy314159pi · · Score: 1

    I wish the story would include references to the works that they are describing. There are more than a couple of groups involved in this research, and they all deserve credit. In particular, I know that chemists at JHU are working with Khanna on these clusters with atomic like angular electronic behavior. In fact, I was at first a little incredulous when they described the properties of these clusters at a meeting. Its pretty cool stuff though!

  17. Book: Hacking Matter by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Has anyone seen the book "Hacking Matter: Levitating Chairs, Quantum Mirages, and the Infinite Weirdness of Programmable Atoms" by Wil McCarthy?

    Basicaly, using quantum structures to shape electron clouds independent of proton count. I sat stunned looking at the periodic table of the first dozen elements of 'two dimensional atoms' created via quantum wells.

  18. So wait a minute.. by KinkifyTheNation · · Score: 1

    Perhaps we can turn lead into gold after all!

  19. Late to the game.. by ciroknight · · Score: 1

    but.. is it just me or does it sound like all of those strange "element-like" things in Star Trek? Especially from the varying descriptions that you guys have replied with, they match very well to some of the very complicated images that are often flashed on the screens of the Star ships on Star Trek (I can't find the images, or I would provide a link, but in episodes like "Night Terrors", Data is at a computer, asking Troi which element that the aliens were describing, as to start an explosion to get away from where they were).

    Now, if you got anything from that, help me find a picture, and I'm sure you'll understand what I mean.. Maybe we're not far from those "hybrid-elements" that they use on an every day basis ;)

    --
    "Victory means exit strategy, and it's important for the President to explain to us what the exit strategy is." G.W.Bush